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Author Topic: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?  (Read 309626 times)

Offline alancalverd

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #200 on: 18/09/2013 15:01:10 »
A Greek says : All Greeks are ...liars haha : a famous paradox in logic.

No, it was a Cretan, quoted by a Greek. Please check your facts.
 

Offline cheryl j

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #201 on: 18/09/2013 15:15:41 »
One of the peculiarities about PSI research is that conclusions are really based on process of elimination: "There is no other way this person could have known this; we've controlled for every variable we can think of, so it must be ESP."

This doesn't happen often in science, and when it does, it often leads to premature conclusions and outright blunders.

Like PSI research,  early studies of newly identified physical phenomenon, may only be able to show a correlation between two things beyond what would be statistically predicted by chance. If the the study is reproducible, though, it is usually followed by ones that ask more specific questions. At which point the researchers can say: "Okay, we still don't know how it works or the cause, but we can show it happens in this situation, but not that one. It is effected by A but not B. It is more likely to occur when C is also present."

Findings like these usually lead to some proposed mechanism or model, which if correct, should have some predictive value in future experiments.

But research on the paranormal never seems to advance past conclusions based on process of elimination, and there is never any more descriptive insight into the process or it's characteristics. 
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #202 on: 18/09/2013 17:35:45 »
One of the peculiarities about PSI research is that conclusions are really based on process of elimination: "There is no other way this person could have known this; we've controlled for every variable we can think of, so it must be ESP."

This doesn't happen often in science, and when it does, it often leads to premature conclusions and outright blunders.

Like PSI research,  early studies of newly identified physical phenomenon, may only be able to show a correlation between two things beyond what would be statistically predicted by chance. If the the study is reproducible, though, it is usually followed by ones that ask more specific questions. At which point the researchers can say: "Okay, we still don't know how it works or the cause, but we can show it happens in this situation, but not that one. It is effected by A but not B. It is more likely to occur when C is also present."

Findings like these usually lead to some proposed mechanism or model, which if correct, should have some predictive value in future experiments.

But research on the paranormal never seems to advance past conclusions based on process of elimination, and there is never any more descriptive insight into the process or it's characteristics.

See this : this scientist makes research on telepathy ...and he makes sense ,relatively speaking , despite what you said about him earlier :

 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #203 on: 18/09/2013 17:54:27 »


What kindda silly "reasoning" is this then ? .....

.....You're telling a particular ordinary story humanity has been experiencing some perfectly natural forms or other of since day 1= no big deal = makes part of the human nature one should try to be alert of , should try to improve ,recognize as such ....Human deception and self-deceit are common knowledge since day 1 ,one must be aware of...


As I prefaced my comments with, stories and analogies are not proof. They are only illustrative.

Um, I think you are actually arguing my own point here. And because there is such a tendency to want to believe things for reasons other than it is likely to be true, the kind of evidence, how ones knows what one knows, and the transparency of the process to others is important.

Ironically, there is not much difference between some of the paranormal, immaterial things you mention - remote viewing, ESP - and some  conventional material process proposed in a  research study in which the author simply refused to publish his data or explain his methodology. If I don't know how he got the results he got, I can't evaluate them. I just have to take his word for it
.

See above .

One cannot  a-priori  just dismiss the potential existence of the paranormal ,just because it is extremely difficult to differentiate between that  and the rest , or just because the nature of the paranormal is , per definition, out of reach of conventional science ...

But , science can try to help us shed some light though on the alleged  paranormal
claims or experiences of some people ...as Sheldrake and others try to do : just take a look at the evidence delivered by the man , before a-priori concluding anything for that matter .

Sheldrake and others try to conduct some scientific research on telepathy ...as the video above shows ..

In short : There is much more to the universe than meets the eye .

Science just covers a tiny piece of reality , as i said earlier , just that apparent side of reality = there is a lot of dimensions out there that are way out of reach of science : dimensions we should try to approach via a holistic approach ..

So, to say that anything science cannot prove to be true as such is not, is the most stupid thing anyone can utter .....


P.S.: Materialism in science cannot , per definition, help you discover anything beyond the apparent material side of reality ,materialism in science which a-priori assumes the universe to be exclusively  material, ironically enough , a materialistic core assumption or materialistic meta-paradigm in science ,quantum physics had already debunked .

« Last Edit: 18/09/2013 18:00:58 by DonQuichotte »
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #204 on: 18/09/2013 18:06:01 »
A Greek says : All Greeks are ...liars haha : a famous paradox in logic.

No, it was a Cretan, quoted by a Greek. Please check your facts
.

Never mind :  whatever ...

 That paradox applies to any x you can replace " Greek  " by : applies to an Arab  , an English , an alien  ..., a Martian,a cat  ...haha
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #205 on: 18/09/2013 18:53:29 »
Only real true mystics can experience the relatively full scale of human consciousness or pure consciousness and beyond :

Rumi – “I have passed beyond all thoughts”

http://www.tm.org/blog/enlightenment/rumi/

« Last Edit: 18/09/2013 19:14:51 by DonQuichotte »
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #206 on: 18/09/2013 18:56:06 »
I died once but no one shed a tear,
So if I live again I will know how to be.
You pursue me with your ignorant talk
Which to me sounds so empty.
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #207 on: 18/09/2013 18:58:34 »
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #208 on: 18/09/2013 19:01:26 »
My heart, on this path words are hollow.
At the door of Union
You have to surrender yourself.
You will never soar to the sky
Where His birds fly
Unless you give up your wings.

...............



Whose feet are worthy
To enter the garden?
Whose eyes are worthy
Of the cypress and the jasmine?
The feet and eyes of a heart
That has been broken.


............


Every object and being in the universe is
a jar overflowing with wisdom and beauty,
a drop of the Tigris that cannot be contained by any skin.
Every jarful spills and makes the earth more shining,
as though covered in satin…”


.............


Make peace with the universe. Take joy in it.
It will turn to gold. Resurrection
will be now. Every moment,
a new beauty.”


...........


“Human beings are mines.
World-power means nothing. Only the unsayable,
jeweled inner life matters…”

..........................


« Last Edit: 18/09/2013 19:10:46 by DonQuichotte »
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #209 on: 18/09/2013 19:12:10 »
“In your light I learn how to love.
In your beauty, how to make poems.
You dance inside my chest,
where no one sees you,
but sometimes I do,
and that sight becomes this art.”

.........


Don’t ask what love can make, or can do.
Look at the colors of the world!
Today, like every other day, we wake up empty, and scared.
Don’t open the door to the study and begin reading.
Take down a musical instrument and start to play.
Let the beauty you love be what you do.
There are a hundred ways to kneel and kiss the ground.


..........

Be patient.
Respond to every call that excites your spirit
Let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull
of what you really love
When you do things from your soul, a river moves through you,
Freshness and a deep joy are the signs…


...............


« Last Edit: 18/09/2013 19:20:55 by DonQuichotte »
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #210 on: 18/09/2013 19:28:44 »
One cannot  a-priori  just dismiss the potential existence of the paranormal ,just because it is extremely difficult to differentiate between that  and the rest , or just because the nature of the paranormal is , per definition, out of reach of conventional science ...
The question is how one can distinguish between a paranormal phenomenon, a claim of paranormal phenomenon, and a mundane phenomenon, if not by careful investigation & critical thinking, e.g. scientific method.

One cannot, a priori, assume that what is said to be paranormal is out of reach of conventional science. Much like alternative medicine, which, if tested and found to be efficacious, becomes medicine, so a claimed paranormal phenomenon, when tested, might be found to be a novel natural phenomenon - although this is extremely rare; the general course is that such phenomena are found to be misidentified mundane phenomena, nonexistent, fraudulent, or undemonstrable. Nevertheless, it can happen.

Quote
So, to say that anything science cannot prove to be true as such is not, is the most stupid thing anyone can utter .....[/b]
Has anyone really said this?
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #211 on: 18/09/2013 20:21:38 »
Rumi and  SCIENCE :

The Science of Truth disappears in the Sufi's knowledge.
When will mankind understand this saying?

[Idries Shah, "The Way of the Sufi," pp. 102-108.]


. . . .and, finally, from "The Essential Rumi," by Coleman Barks:

THE MILK OF MILLENIA

. . . For hundreds of thousands of years
I have been dust grains
floating and flying in the will of the air,
often forgetting ever being
in that state, but in sleep
I migrate back. I spring loose
from the four-branched time-and-space cross,
this waiting room.

            I walk into a huge pasture.
            I nurse the milk of millenia.
            Everyone does this in different ways.
            Knowing that conscious decisions
            and personal memory
            are much too small a place to live,
            every human being streams at night
            into the loving nowhere, or during the day,
            in some absorbing work.


Rumi on Evolution:

HOW FAR YOU HAVE COME

    Originally you were clay. From being mineral, you became vegetable. From vegetable, you became animal, and from animal, man. During these periods man did not know where he was going, but he was being take on a long journey, nonetheless. And you have to go through a hundred different worlds yet.


I have again and again grown like grass;
I have experienced seven hundred and seventy moulds.
I died from minerality and became vegetable;
And from vegetativeness I died and became animal.
I died from animality and became man.
Then why fear disappearnace through death?
Next time I shall die
Bringing forth wings and feathers like angels:
After that soaring higher than angels -
What you cannot imagine. I shall be that.



http://spiritualnotreligious.blogspot.com/2011/05/rumi-on-religion-evoloution-and-science.html
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #212 on: 18/09/2013 20:50:19 »
Rumi's Holistic Humanism :

http://www.codhill.com/ashraf-rhh.html

Mirza Iqbal Ashraf
Rumi’s Holistic Humanism :
Rumi’s Holistic Humanism: The Timeless Appeal of the Great Mystic Poet, presents the mystical poet's passionate conviction that "love is the strongest unifying force," and that its force is present everywhere and in everything. It may even encourage some to study the extraordinary work of Rumi that so often opens the heart of its adepts. For Rumi peace is the natural quest for a "whole person," and the human being's inclination to it arises from a natural universal order. In humankind's fight to root out conflict, violence and war, Rumi's holistic view of unconditional love may prove one of our best friends. Rumi's holistic approach to the phenomena of humankind is that the perimeters between the self and the universe are mitigated to the extent that the material body becomes indistinct of its typical cultural identity.

After so many centuries, Rumi today is as he was yesterday, a living icon of Unity and Love for the whole of mankind. Ashraf's holistic weaving of the many spiritual, philosophical, rational, scientific, and cultural "threads" that converge in Rumi's thought offers the beginning of a unitive language that humanists, rationalists, theists, non-theists, atheists, religious folks, artists, scientists—all thinkers of good will from all cultures may welcome and embrace—as they explore and try to understand the universe. So doing, though taking different roads, they unearth a new level of communication and productive diversity.

Rumi's Holistic Humanism takes into account the wide range of philosophical inquiry and mystical experiences, issues of psychology, morality and discipline, and the problematic conditions of ordinary daily human existence. Shakespeare gave us the question, "To be or not to be..."Rumi asked"... to love or not to love?", and the WHOLE HEART answers with a resounding YES! "Gamble everything for love."
« Last Edit: 18/09/2013 20:53:54 by DonQuichotte »
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #213 on: 18/09/2013 23:07:10 »
Only real true mystics can experience the relatively full scale of human consciousness or pure consciousness and beyond :

Really? How do you know?
 

Offline AndroidNeox

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #214 on: 18/09/2013 23:26:14 »
The human mind is a physical process of the human brain. While it might be difficult to understand, there's no reason to think it is dependent upon anything but common (universal) physical rules. People have similar problems understanding how life could be a consequence of common matter in complex arrangements. The problem isn't with the physics, it's with our ability to imagine.
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #215 on: 19/09/2013 14:53:15 »
Oi! Who asked for common sense? You'll be questioning the existence of fairies if you're not careful, and you know what that means... 
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #216 on: 19/09/2013 15:04:26 »
Oi! Who asked for common sense? You'll be questioning the existence of fairies if you're not careful, and you know what that means... 
More poetry?
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #217 on: 19/09/2013 15:06:05 »
Worse - the death of fairies! Well, maybe not worse.
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #218 on: 19/09/2013 16:27:30 »
The human mind is a physical process of the human brain. While it might be difficult to understand, there's no reason to think it is dependent upon anything but common (universal) physical rules. People have similar problems understanding how life could be a consequence of common matter in complex arrangements. The problem isn't with the physics, it's with our ability to imagine.

Welcome , even though we have enough magicians here .
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #219 on: 19/09/2013 16:29:36 »
Only real true mystics can experience the relatively full scale of human consciousness or pure consciousness and beyond :

Really? How do you know?

Read the man's work,if you wanna know
 

Offline cheryl j

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #220 on: 19/09/2013 16:34:45 »
Thank you for the poetry, Don Quixote. It's lovely. But I do think you are starting to compare apples to oranges. Here is another story:

I enjoy painting. If you lived in my neighborhood, I could sit in your yard, and paint a picture of your house. I could show you my finished painting and ask "Do you know what this is?" and if I was any good, you might say, "Why, yes. That is  my house. I can tell by color of the siding, just the way it looks when the sun shines on it at four in the afternoon, the slope of the gables, and the placement of the door. You've captured the rose bushes outside that we planted last spring rather nicely. Oh, and that appears to be me in the upstairs window typing furiously away at the computer."

The next day, you are rummaging through a drawer and find a set of blueprints. You show them to your son, and say "Do you know what this is?" He examines it closely and says "Hey, that's our house!" The blueprints show where the kitchen is, in relationship to the living room, and bedrooms, the hallways and closets, etc. and the dimensions of each.

Which representation is more accurate? Which is closer to the truth?

The artistic rendering, impercise as it is, may be closer to the image recreated in your visual centers in your brain from electrical impulses generated when photons stimulate receptors on the retina of your eye. It may be closer to  image of your house  stored in your memory. The painting may stimulate the same emotional response you have when you look at your house or recall it. You might like it so well, that you pay me a large sum of money for it, and hang it over your couch.

But if you are doing renovations or having any electrical work done, I suggest you provide the blueprints, not the painting.
« Last Edit: 19/09/2013 16:46:35 by cheryl j »
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #221 on: 19/09/2013 16:41:34 »

Read the man's work,if you wanna know


No, I want to know how you know, not what someone else told you. This is a science forum, not a poetry club.
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #222 on: 19/09/2013 17:52:35 »
There is also what can be called the  "science of spirituality or neurotheology " as well, as the logical consequence of the mainstream dominance  of materialism and the materialistic meta-paradigm in science, that tries to approach human consciousness, human spirituality , religious experiences, the "believing brain " (The latter by atheist Michael Schermer )....via studying the specific corresponding activity of the brain : that's a typical example of that magical materialism in science :

See this on the subject ,concerning the materialistic magical approach of the above :

Note :

No one yet  ,if ever , can be able to prove the paradoxical magical "validity" or "truth" of that magical emergency trick ,not even remotely close , and no one can tell how unconscious matter gives rise to consciousness , and therefore to such concepts and ideas such as the human  currents of thought ,philosophies , beliefs , cultures ...freedom,ethics ...

Studying the brain in the above mentioned sense by assuming that the brain creates human consciousness , religious experiences, the God feeling ,human spirituality ...is a false magical materialistic debunked premise or assumption,not to mention the fact that materialistic scientists do confuse epilepsy and its related  corresponding  illusions,delusions ....with the healthy spirituality of man   :

Those scientists do not make the difference between the 2 categories ,for obvious materialistic magical "reasons " , only materialists seem to possess the magical key to unlock their secrets haha, not to mention that if spirituality is created by the brain, due to the materialistic magical fact that consciousness was the product of the evolutionary complexity  of the brain  ,the brain that seems to create just a representation of reality via our senses, then, it's pretty logical  to assume that even all our knowledge , including the scientific one, including  our knowledge of evolution itself  .....are just some sort of sophisticated pragmatic survival strategies , or elaborate illusions , in the same sense spirituality is then ...= a paradox no one here or elsewhere seem to be able or wanna answer,except by some sort of magic then  .

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/god-on-the-brain/

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/phantoms-in-the-brain/

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/mystical-brain/

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/michael-shermer-the-believing-brain/


P.S.: That earlier tv set ,radio ...analogy regarding  the brain , a tv set that can, obvioulsy ,not create those tv signals it receives ,neither can the radio create the sound waves it receives ,  was just that : an analogy :

The tv set proper ,  and the images of the tv set created by those tv signals the tv receives are 2 different separate things or processes  , while brain and consciousness are 2 different things or processes in 1 , mind and body as being 1 in any given human person   : a kindda combination between dualism and monism .

When the human brain is damaged at the level of  some specific areas ,due to some disease , handicap, accident , genetic defect ...disorders like Alzheimer or dementia, ...even the sense of the self is altered radically indeed , and many aspects of consciousness in those cases are also radically altered,to say just that  : but that does not mean that the brain  is the "home "  or is the creator of consciousness as a kindda magical "emergence " trick popping out suddenly from the evolved complexity of the human brain :

 I see the human brain as just some kindda receiver its own biological way that cannot be compared to any mechanical manufactured-by-man device  :

when the brain  gets damaged in some specific areas , the corresponding elements or aspects of consciousness that get apparently altered as a result , are still there , they are just disconnected from the brain as a receiver , they do not get through, as a result, i dunno  :

The question now is : do those people who do suffer from Alzheimer dementia ....still have levels of consciousness within we cannot detect ?
Or is there a way to find out about that and how ? 

Second : the main problem regarding telepathy and other high levels of human consciousness ,that can be easily confused with illusions, delusions, self-deceit , .......is that they are not only subjective, but they also cannot be generated on demand , they just happen to people , even though humans can be trained to develop those consciousness powers or skils in themselves, by developing their 'contacts " with their consciousness via some means  :

So, when science tries to take a closer look at telepathy, for example , it misses the fact that telepathy cannot be generated on demand ...

High levels of consciousness can also be experienced only under certain meditation and other spiritual circumstances where the body or the material world cease to "exist " or cease to be perceived as such for the given person under those meditation or under other spiritual states ,due to that extremely targeted attention or focuss of the given person at the level of the pure consciousness .

The other question that come to mind is : at which extent can science approach human spirituality .?

But , to reduce human spirituality and human consciousness to just magical "emergent " phenomena from the evolutionary complexity of the brain is not only magic , but also a paradox in the above mentioned sense + total non-sense ,science has nothing to do with .

Magical materialism can thus never be able to deliver any breakthroughs concerning human consciousness, not even remotely close , thanks to its very magical nature which reduces everything to matter , a materialistic nature quantum physics had already debunked .

I think that we need a radical shift of paradigm in science , a radical shift of meta-paradigm in science in fact , if we wanna ever be able to scientifically try to approach these eternal issues of human consciousness  ,humanity has been struggling with for so long now without any end in sight to that eternal human struggle , and we should combine those future scientific approaches in combination with all sciences and currents of thought = we need a revolutionary holistic approach thus .

You tell me ...
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #223 on: 19/09/2013 17:53:49 »

Read the man's work,if you wanna know

No, I want to know how you know, not what someone else told you. This is a science forum, not a poetry club.

Read that work, and you will know : The man's work is so large and huge  that it cannot be really discussed this way, come on , be serious .

Taking drugs and using tons of Alcohol ,combined with  your false deceptive big ego won't help you in that regard or in any other for that matter .

First thing you should do : Get rid of your false ego, get rid of your ego,period : that should help you get in contact with your true self as a result, you have been hiding from all along .
Second : Reject that materialistic magic in science, by delivering science from its phony meta-paradigm  .

Do just that , and i will tell you all about the next steps.

Deal ?

Good luck

P.S.: I haven't seen much science from any of you, guys , so far , just magical materialistic interpretations of science : See the difference ? I hope you do,but i seriously doubt just that , sorry  .
« Last Edit: 19/09/2013 18:09:01 by DonQuichotte »
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #224 on: 19/09/2013 19:33:17 »
Thank you for the poetry, Don Quixote. It's lovely. But I do think you are starting to compare apples to oranges. Here is another story:

I enjoy painting. If you lived in my neighborhood, I could sit in your yard, and paint a picture of your house. I could show you my finished painting and ask "Do you know what this is?" and if I was any good, you might say, "Why, yes. That is  my house. I can tell by color of the siding, just the way it looks when the sun shines on it at four in the afternoon, the slope of the gables, and the placement of the door. You've captured the rose bushes outside that we planted last spring rather nicely. Oh, and that appears to be me in the upstairs window typing furiously away at the computer."

The next day, you are rummaging through a drawer and find a set of blueprints. You show them to your son, and say "Do you know what this is?" He examines it closely and says "Hey, that's our house!" The blueprints show where the kitchen is, in relationship to the living room, and bedrooms, the hallways and closets, etc. and the dimensions of each.

Which representation is more accurate? Which is closer to the truth?

The artistic rendering, impercise as it is, may be closer to the image recreated in your visual centers in your brain from electrical impulses generated when photons stimulate receptors on the retina of your eye. It may be closer to  image of your house  stored in your memory. The painting may stimulate the same emotional response you have when you look at your house or recall it. You might like it so well, that you pay me a large sum of money for it, and hang it over your couch.

But if you are doing renovations or having any electrical work done, I suggest you provide the blueprints, not the painting.

Oh, boy , or oh , girl :  Editing my post afterwards : my little kids contributted in distracting me ,so, i lost focus at times , so, pardon me if this post seems a bit chaotic : thanks :

Oh, girl : You're putting your finger on a huge issue , i will try to approach this quick clumsy way :

You're confusing many things with each other , while separating  some areas of human consciousness , activity,reality,human dimentions, human condition, human knowledge , easthetics  ... from each other ,one cannot always separate ,not in the absolute sense at least ,simply because they all complete each other , feedback each other , influence each other , ...simply because they are all pursued by the same human spirit , and simply because those artificial boundaries between them are not really absolute .

You're doing all that and much more via this inspiring nice story of yours i do appreciate and thank you for indeed , a story  that cannot prove the point you are trying to prove ,or the implications it tries to illustrate : i   will tell you why in a sec : hint ?:

Art is both a subjective and a cultural  "product " of the artist's holistic approach via his /her whole being that includes , his /her relative understanding or knowledge regarding the  science of his / her  time,regarding the wisdom of his /her time , some artists can transcend and rise above which results in the transmission of universal timeless values , wisdom ...as the example of Rumi shows  + the artist's use of the tools and technology ,techniques, symbols ...or zeitgeist of his /her time ..........:

You're confusing or rather comparing science with art ,while they overlap each other in subtle ways , while trying to prove the obvious fact that science is not art , and vice versa

Nice story , i would love to see your paintings since i , myself , like to make amateur paintings ,among other creative things as well .

But , you forgot to mention that an artist knows that he / she tries to "reflect reality "
in his / her own creative work his / her own subjective way , he / she does not pretend to copy  "reality proper " : if an artist would try to copy "reality " as it is , and not as it should be , or as he /she sees it or how she/he likes to see it or likes it to be ..... then he /she (I am tired of this he /she haha ) ,then he/she is not an artist and should therefore pursue another different career .

Art is indeed subjective , is a matter of taste , but art "flies above the truth while trying not to get burned  by it " as Kafka used to say at least : art tries to approach the truth as well thus its own holistic way :

I am sure you prefer this style of painting to another , a style which might reflect your world view , your taste, your convictions, your easthetics,taste  ...

Make no mistake, even a casual painting can tell a lot about one's preferences, taste, likes and dislikes, personality , convictions, world view ...

You put your whole being into that painting , i presume : you put yourself in it ...

Art can reflect  the world view ,eathetics , ethics , taste , experiences, knowledge ,skills ....of the given artist ...

Any casual painting , ....is done through your whole spirit .

The same goes , and in higher degrees, with the art ,poetry of Rumi , the latter puts his whole accumulated wisdom, experiences ,spirit  .... in he communicates to the world in the process ,while succeeding in touching the hearts and minds of different people from different cultures , races, ........simply because Rumi knew , as great artists  do ,how to transmit universal values , emotions, feelings , universal love , universal wisdom...to people .

Those universal blueprints transmitted by art to all mankind are a kindda holy Grail only great artists can achieve ...while an architect , for example, just studies his practical work at the university : anyone can become an architect , but not any one can become an artist though : those universal blueprints communicated by great artists ,those universal wisdoms, through art, literature , music , ....cannot be studied in any school then : you can study about art , easthetics ...but no study can make you an artist or create that talent needed and developed by artists .


I am a big fan of world literature also, for example , and i am found of extracting wisdom , easthetics , ...from that literature .

I see ,for example, Don Quichottes everywhere, i see Don Juans like our friend with his false big deceptive ego here everywhere and in myself previously as well,  in life and here , and i was also one , i am still somehow, I do get also moved by some Dante's existential poetry , by the universal blueprints of the music of Yanni who succeeded , at the level of music , at least , to get the best from different cultures , schools of thought , religions ...,at the level of music at least , represented by the people he worked with ,as this awsome wonderful wonderful wonderful beautiful masterpiece of his shows, i dedicate to you,even if it's not mine haha  :



Science is only one way of approaching reality or the truth : i prefer a holistic approach that combines science with the rest though .

Science itself is a different form of art , poetry , a social cultural universal human activity ,a form of culture  ...practiced by humans scientists through their senses and minds brains , and through their world views and convictions as well , as the major example of materialism as a world view in science shows ,for example , one should try not to confuse with science proper , once again .

Thanks for your inspiring insights i do appreciate very much indeed .

Take care

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« Last Edit: 19/09/2013 19:36:54 by DonQuichotte »
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #224 on: 19/09/2013 19:33:17 »

 

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