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Author Topic: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?  (Read 309185 times)

Offline dlorde

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #500 on: 09/10/2013 10:37:36 »
Many religious scientists have attempted to reconcile science and religion, but I suspect Don Quixote's  proposed"paradigm shift" is an attempt to turn the clock back to an essentially medieval view of reality in which materialist science infringes on God's prerogative to alter reality in any way He sees fit.
I'm sure he'll deny it, but that's the way it comes across. Medieval mysicism & magic substituting for materialism. For 'science', read 'alchemy and incantation' ;)
« Last Edit: 09/10/2013 10:43:45 by dlorde »
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #501 on: 09/10/2013 10:43:28 »
I'd write more cranky responses, but the Northern lights are going crazy here!
I wish I could see them from here, but we're too far south in the southern UK...
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #502 on: 09/10/2013 17:32:24 »
Question: Why can you never trust an atom?

Because they make up everything!

Hahahahaha.I crack myself up.  Sorry, just a little materialist humor.  And yes I stole that joke.

_Why can you never trust materialists ?
_Because they deliberately have been deceiving    and  lying to the people in the name of science,since the 19th century at least  .
Because materialists have been chronic centuries -long ...liars , deceivers .......in the name of science ..............

« Last Edit: 09/10/2013 18:23:02 by DonQuichotte »
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #503 on: 09/10/2013 17:53:31 »
The Northern Lights have unfortunately dimmed a bit. So in the mean time, I've been searching for "science proper" on the internet, and strangely found nothing except for a question on a forum by someone named Shibboleth.

Although my knowledge of Islam is quite limited, it doesn't seem that scientists working in traditionally Islamic countries are rabid anti-materialists.

I think scientists working in Africa,Asia, the middle East, or South America, would not consider science, or empirically based, materialist scientific methodology, to be the domain of Eurocentric White devils trying to brain wash them or impose a false misconception of science upon them. The Renaissance in Europe was a long time ago, and many countries and ethnic groups have contributed to materialist scientific findings before and after, often at great personal threat to their safety by religious fundamentalists in their geographical area. The idea that materialism stems from Jesuit tradition is certainly questionable. The Jesuit tradition, as I understand it, (and I'm not Cathothic,) was simply that education had a civilizing effect on people which was overall beneficial . Some Catholic priests may have been more educated than the average person at the time; they knew Latin, and could read, they had time and income to think about science, but they pursued certain scientific findings at their own peril.
But even in Europe, early scientists, who were not associated with the church, like Galileo, or amateur scientists like Leeuwenhoek who looked at semen under a microscope, risked their lives communicating their "materialist"  observations to others. Undoubtably, scientists in Islamic countries encountered the same opposition.

Many religious scientists have attempted to reconcile science and religion, but I suspect Don Quixote's  proposed"paradigm shift" is an attempt to turn the clock back to an essentially medieval view of reality in which materialist science infringes on God's prerogative to alter reality in any way He sees fit.

You do absolutely not know what you're talking about , love :
Don't project your own Eurocentric heritage  , indoctrinations and brainwash on other cultures , religions, thoughtstreams ...please :  materialism was the product of those special Eurocentric cultural philosophic economic social religious ....medieval circumstances that were / are particular to Europe or to the west only = not universal .
See the very certain Islamic origin of the scientific method itself , that did originate directly from the Qur'anic epistemology , i did open a whole topic about .
It was religious extremism mainly , that's obviously alien to Islam itself , that had made the early muslims abandon science , knowledge in the boroader sense ....a historic fact which resulted in their well-deserved decline .
Science is a religious duty in Islam, a form of worship of God ,so, the early muslims who did "invent " and practice the scientific method ,for the first time ever in mankind's history ,thanks to that Qur'anic epistemology they used to interiorize so well  thus ,  by not only laying its philosophic theoretical epistemological and practical foundations , but they also did actively practice it , in full awareness of what the scientific method thus meant on both the abstract and the reality ground .
Those early muslims used to separate science from Islam in the process of course , while trying to get a holistic synthesis from both afterwards :

See that topic of mine on the subject : " What is the real origin of the scientific method ? " in science forums ...:

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=48315.0

See this as well , while you are at it :

www.muslimheritage.com
www.1001inventions.com

Science and Islam as the both sides of the same coin , they are necessary to each other , need each other , complete each other ...........

P.S.: The ancient Greek thought was not only unscientific , but was aslo hostile to science , despite all those ancient Greek 'scientists " ' contributions to science , the latter were just the exceptions to the rule who were "practicing  Science " without having any idea about the scientific method as such , or about its epistemological philosophic theoretical basis ....The same goes for all those ancient Egyptian, Indian, Chinese , Babylonian ........."scientists " ....
Aristotle , for example , used to talk about sense perception, observation, experience, and even induction ...as valid sources of knowledge , but that was just abstract talk that was never practiced on the reality ground :
Aristotle said, for example , once that women had more teeth than men haha , but he never bothered himself to verify that  funny extraordinary claim of his empirically ...see this great epistemological study on the subject + on the above as well :  via google search : free download pdf link = a relatively short concise bright essay you can download for free , first link with PDF lablel:

https://www.google.com/#q=the+islamic+impact+on+western+civilization+reconsidered+by+koshul.pdf

In short :
The Islamic impact on western civilization was so far reaching , as Briffault said ,that above mentioned essay tried to prove to be true , the islamic impact thus on western civilization was so far reaching that there was no single aspect of western growth that could not be traced back to those islamic impacts .
The Islamic impact on western civilization was in fact so far reaching that it did also originate the scientific method itself ,or science itself ..............

Besides, western thought was just an extension of the original Islamic one , western thought that has been taking since its own materialist and other paths though .........
Materialism  as an Eurocentric ideology and false conception of nature , or as a primitive backward degenerate -form-of-christianity secular religion has been making you ,westerners , even dumber , despite all those huge advances of science proper at the level of matter or at the level of material physical and biological processes , materialism had/has absolutely nothing to do with those scientific advances  .............
Materialism in all sciences , in art , literature ...that has been exported to the rest of the world ,thanks to western global domination and power ,is totally alien to those non-western cultures, societies .............
 





.................


Excerpts from "Science Set Free ..." By Sheldrake : Chapter 12 : Scientific Futures :
In other words : dear westerners : you'd better try to get rid of that Eurocentric outdated primitive backward orthodox materialist false secular religion in science, otherwise , you will find yourselves suddenly way behind the rest of the world at the level of the sciences , in plural, at least : you are warned :



The sciences are entering a new phase. The materialist ideology that has ruled them since the
nineteenth century is out of date. All ten of its essential doctrines have been superseded. The
authoritarian structure of the sciences, the illusions of objectivity and the fantasies of omniscience
have all outlived their usefulness.
The sciences will have to change for another reason too: they are now global. Mechanistic science
and the materialist ideology grew up in Europe, and were strongly influenced by the religious disputes
that obsessed Europeans from the seventeenth century onward. But these preoccupations are alien to
cultures and traditions in many other parts of the world.
In 2011, the worldwide expenditure on scientific and technological research and development was
more than $1,000 billion, of which China spent $100 billion.1 Asian countries, especially China and
India, now produce enormous numbers of science and engineering graduates. In 2007, at BSc level
there were 2.5 million science and engineering graduates in India and 1.5 million in China,2 compared
with 515,000 in the United States3 and 100,000 in the UK.4 In addition, many of those studying in the
United States and Europe are from other countries: in 2007, nearly a third of the graduate students in
science and engineering in the United States were foreign, with the majority from India, China and
Korea.5
Yet the sciences as taught in Asia, Africa, the Islamic countries and elsewhere are still packaged in
an ideology shaped by their European past. Materialism gains its persuasive power from the
technological applications of science. But the successes of these applications do not prove that this
ideology is true. Penicillin will go on killing bacteria, jet planes will keep on flying and mobile
telephones will still work if scientists move on to wider views of nature.
No one can foresee how the sciences will evolve, but I believe recognizing that “science” is not one
thing will facilitate their development. “Science” has given way to “the sciences.” By moving beyond
physicalism, the status of physics has changed. By freeing the sciences from the ideology of
materialism, new opportunities for debate and dialogue open up, and so do new possibilities for
research.

« Last Edit: 09/10/2013 18:29:40 by DonQuichotte »
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #504 on: 09/10/2013 18:37:15 »
"Casting pearls before ...swine ", no offense , as David Cooper so eloquently metaphorically ironically said earlier indeed:

So much for  our so-called "rational logical scientific  community "  here , my ass , excuse my French , Dutch , English or Arabic ...................
An utter total waste of time ....

My dear fellow, Don Q,

You are casting your pearls before swine. I think you should write all this stuff up as a proper book and make it available on the Kindle where it can be read more comfortably and without being derailed repeatedly by other people with their ludicrous objections.

Nice subtle irony of yours haha , that does have some elements of truth , ironically enough : "DonQ" ? haha , come on .
Hi , buddy : nice to have you back, i mean it  : Philosopher Thomas Nagel is more qualified than i could ever be in that regard .
Well, despite my repeated extensive attempts to clarify my main core point concerning the facts discussed by philosopher Thomas Nagel 's " Mind and cosmos : why the materialist reductionist neo-Darwinian conception of nature is almost certainly false " book , these people do not seem to be able to get it yet , so, they just distort my views ,or do not understand them properly as i meant them to be at least : maybe  i was not clear enough , who knows : i did my best though , in that regard at least .
I did even post the introduction, the conclusion , chapter 3 cognition, and chapter 4 consciousness of that book here on this thread for them, in vain .
Not to mention that i also did provide a free download link to most books of Nagel on line , including to that above mentioned book of his .
I really would love to see you forget about our previous little insignificant and meaningless conflict , it was nothing in fact really ,and enrich us with your eventual insights on the subject , seriously .
I would really appreciate it , if you would tell us  your own opinions about Thomas Nagel's book ,or about the main core issue here,as follows  : 

The exclusively biological physical reductionist naturalist materialist neo_Darwinian conception of nature is false = a misconception of nature , that gotta be replaced by a more or less valid conception of nature in science = a non-reductionist naturalist one , as Nagel proposes in fact ...
Thanks , appreciate .
I really missed your significant presence -personality here and views as well , even though i do not agree with most of your world views ,regarding reductionism in science at least,and its implications for the reductionist approaches of the emergence evolution and origins of life ,the emergence evolution and origins of consciousness ... its implications for the reductionist version of evolution ...  .
Kind regards .


« Last Edit: 09/10/2013 18:44:38 by DonQuichotte »
 

Offline David Cooper

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #505 on: 09/10/2013 20:10:51 »
Question: Why can you never trust an atom?

Because they make up everything!

Hahahahaha.I crack myself up.  Sorry, just a little materialist humor.  And yes I stole that joke.

I think everyone deserves that reward for reading this thread.
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #506 on: 09/10/2013 20:34:24 »
Question: Why can you never trust an atom?

Because they make up everything!

Hahahahaha.I crack myself up.  Sorry, just a little materialist humor.  And yes I stole that joke.

I think everyone deserves that reward for reading this thread.

Maybe ,if they happen to be materialists at that in fact : have better ideas ?

And no, atoms do not "make up everything" = that was just the materialist tasteless reductionist magical handicaped  false haha  materialist key-hole  "humor" = that's the whole point of this thread by the way = consciousness is not "made up" by atoms , or rather consciousness is not "made up " by some sort of (magical materialist made up)   strip-tease sexy ritual oscillations vibrations synchronizations haha ...dances of neurons or of ensemble of neurons ,as some "research " provided by some materialist dummy here "proved that to be true "  haha  ...the same goes for all the rest of those non-physical and non-biological processes such as memory , feelings , emotions, human love ,conscience , mind , human cognition  .........................
Physical chemical processes do not "make up " the non-physical and non-biological above mentioned processes , how can they ever do just that ( materialist magic) = they do not "make up " anything"  in fact for that matter , including hallucinations, delusions , fairy tales ...
That materialist   tasteless "joke " is the epitome of stupidity and lack of taste .....= an understatement thus .

P.S.:

Someone asks : how could  all the extremely rich diversity of life on earth evolve from just 1 single so-called original cell  that had suddenly and magically "emerged " from that so-called original "soup "  haha, not my mother's though , via so many "accidents "
 ?
Another answers : well, dummy : we see that happening every single day : 1 single cell (the spermatozoid fusing with the female ovule ) "gives birth" to you , to  me ..........to the rest of mankind , and to most of the rest ...

That's another silly false tasteless reductionist magical materialist "joke " = life is not a matter of just physics and chemistry ..............the latter can certainly and absolutely not account  fully  for life , its emergence evolution and origins = no way .
Plus, The so-called original cell that allegedly "gave birth" to all life  via evolution  , was most probably , if it ever existed in fact , nothing like the current cells ............
« Last Edit: 09/10/2013 21:04:29 by DonQuichotte »
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #507 on: 09/10/2013 21:12:02 »
Amazing how that materialist magical reductionist bullshit regarding life , consciousness , memory , feelings , emotions , human love , human cognition , human conscience ............their evolution emergence and origins , gets sold to the people as science proper , as scientific facts , or as scientific approaches ...haha = the epitome os stupidity in science and elsewhere .
Unbelievable ...............
Physics and chemistry can certainly and absolutely not account fully for those above mentioned processes , let alone for their evolution emergence or origins ...
The epitome of stupidity at the heart of science , thanks to materialism ..........
Incredibly amazing ...........
The funniest  and saddest  thing of all about this is that these folks here , and others elsewhere, including the majority of scientists , do not only take that materialist false ridiculous magical bullshit regarding the above for granted without ever questioning its "validity or truth "  , but they also make "jokes " about that hahahahahahahahah

hhhahahahhahahahah

I am speechless again haha ..............

God..............
« Last Edit: 09/10/2013 21:18:47 by DonQuichotte »
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #508 on: 09/10/2013 21:19:26 »
hahahahahahhahahahhahahhahaaaaaaaaa
Who laughs last , laughs best ...hahahahahahah
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #509 on: 09/10/2013 21:29:53 »
haha
What a bunch of idiots haha

No wonder that that silly materialist IQ test is a joke .
Heart's intelligence is indeed the highest form of intelligence ,the highest form of intellect : heart as no feelings , emotions, or biological organ ...

hahahahahahahahah
« Last Edit: 09/10/2013 21:33:43 by DonQuichotte »
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #510 on: 09/10/2013 22:04:16 »
Wow... I hope that was just an embarrassing outburst, not a public breakdown.
 

Offline cheryl j

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #511 on: 10/10/2013 04:26:28 »
Extended Minds :




 Our experiences of our bodies are in our bodies. The feelings in my fingers are in my fingers,
not in my head. Direct experience offers no support for the extraordinary claim that all experiences
are inside brains. Direct experience is not irrelevant to the nature of consciousness: it is
consciousness.

Well, I'm glad he's not my doctor, anyway. If feeling is in the fingers and not in the brain, why would damage to the brachial nerve plexus in the shoulder, (or a stroke) cause me to lose sensation or movement in my hand? My fingers are just fine! They weren't damaged at all.

 How would one use morphic fields to explain why bright lights or plucking an eyebrow sometimes makes people sneeze? If you don't know that the branching trigeminal cranial nerve receives information from the eyes, nose and upper brow area, and the brain sometimes misinterprets information coming from one as actually coming from another area, it makes no sense. Perception and the experience of sensation is not in the fingers (or the nose in the example above) it's in the brain.

Amputees experience phantom limbs. They experience pain, itchiness, and other sensations from a limb that clearly isn't there. (Perhaps their morphic field is itchy.) Neurologists believe that over time, the part of the brain that used to control the missing arm starts to be utilized for other body parts, and curiously, patients with phantom limb pain or itchiness can often get relief by rubbing their faces, which makes sense since the region devoted to the face is right next door in the somatosensory cortex.

There's a fun experiment called the rubber hand experiment. The participant's real hand is hidden from their sight and replaced with a rubber hand. The experimenter takes two paint brushes and gently strokes the rubber hand and the hidden hand in synchrony. Participants report a bizarre feeling that rubber hand is their hand, even though rationally, they are well aware it's fake. And if the experimenter threatens the rubber hand, with say a sharp knife, or whacks it with a hammer, they reflexively jump or jerk their own hand, even though it was never in any danger.

Another tactile illusion (called the thermal grill illusion) involves temperature receptors in the skin. One kind of temperature receptor responds to cold, 10-30 degrees C. Another responds to warm temperatures, between 30 and 45 degrees C. Both sets respond to scalding hot temperatures. If you take a kitchen fork and place it in cool water, and another in warm water for several minutes, and intertwine the tines of the warm and cool forks and place them against your skin, it creates an uncomfortable burning sensation, since usually that is the only time those receptors fire together. (That's also why your ears burn and itch when you come into a warm house on a cold day)

So what? Well, Sheldrake says direct experience is everything, we should always trust it, and yet it would appear that our consciousness can be fooled rather easily.

It's one thing to ask questions about the "hard problem" of the subjective feeling of consciousness, the unified sense of self, but Sheldrake sounds like he's denying pretty much everything in basic, first year anatomy and physiology book.

ps. I'd tell you some more chemistry jokes, but I only do that periodically. Anyway, the best ones argon.
« Last Edit: 10/10/2013 05:09:27 by cheryl j »
 

Offline cheryl j

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #512 on: 10/10/2013 05:03:25 »

See the very certain Islamic origin of the scientific method itself , that did originate directly from the Qur'anic epistemology , i did open a whole topic about...
...The Islamic impact on western civilization was so far reaching , as Briffault said ,that above mentioned essay tried to prove to be true , the islamic impact thus on western civilization was so far reaching that there was no single aspect of western growth that could not be traced back to those islamic impacts .
The Islamic impact on western civilization was in fact so far reaching that it did also originate the scientific method itself ,or science itself ..............

Besides, western thought was just an extension of the original Islamic one , western thought that has been taking since its own materialist and other paths though .........
Materialism  as an Eurocentric ideology and false conception of nature , or as a primitive backward degenerate -form-of-christianity secular religion has been making you ,westerners , even dumber , despite all those huge advances of science proper at the level of matter or at the level of material physical and biological processes , materialism had/has absolutely nothing to do with those scientific advances  .............
Materialism in all sciences , in art , literature ...that has been exported to the rest of the world ,thanks to western global domination and power ,is totally alien to those non-western cultures, societies .............
 



Congratulations to you and your people for inventing science. I've never been tempted to brag about my racial heritage; it just seems to get Germans into all sorts of trouble when they start doing that, and then no one wants to sit next to them at a dinner parties.
« Last Edit: 10/10/2013 15:22:28 by cheryl j »
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #513 on: 10/10/2013 17:37:25 »
Wow... I hope that was just an embarrassing outburst, not a public breakdown.

Sweet dreams, Alice : your lack of understanding or your amazing tendency to  twisting things  and facts  is extremely staggering for a self-declared scientist..............unbelievable.
I was just having fun ..............at the expense of that laughable materialism ,and at yours as well ....= i couldn't help but doing just that = who could haha = only materialists could ...
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #514 on: 10/10/2013 17:50:03 »

See the very certain Islamic origin of the scientific method itself , that did originate directly from the Qur'anic epistemology , i did open a whole topic about...
...The Islamic impact on western civilization was so far reaching , as Briffault said ,that above mentioned essay tried to prove to be true , the islamic impact thus on western civilization was so far reaching that there was no single aspect of western growth that could not be traced back to those islamic impacts .
The Islamic impact on western civilization was in fact so far reaching that it did also originate the scientific method itself ,or science itself ..............

Besides, western thought was just an extension of the original Islamic one , western thought that has been taking since its own materialist and other paths though .........
Materialism  as an Eurocentric ideology and false conception of nature , or as a primitive backward degenerate -form-of-christianity secular religion has been making you ,westerners , even dumber , despite all those huge advances of science proper at the level of matter or at the level of material physical and biological processes , materialism had/has absolutely nothing to do with those scientific advances  .............
Materialism in all sciences , in art , literature ...that has been exported to the rest of the world ,thanks to western global domination and power ,is totally alien to those non-western cultures, societies .............
 



Congratulations to you and your people for inventing science. I've never been tempted to brag about my racial heritage; it just seems to get Germans into all sorts of trouble when they start doing that, and then no one wants to sit next to them at a dinner parties.

Ho, ho , ho : stop your  wild horses , cowgirl :
That was no bragging : how can i brag about something done by others , i cannot even brag about the things i did / do = makes no sense .
Why brag about anything for that matter ...
I said the early muslims   " invented " science : muslims are  no race =   1 of Islam's core messages is to abolish eradicate and refute any kindda discrimination on the basis of belief , race , skin color  , ethnic background, sex , ....in the Islamic sense .

Islam that's against any kindda racism, sectarianism , fascism ...........
Islam was even the first ever to proclaim the equality of all people ,as human beings  regardless of their race , sex , belief , ethnicity ,skin color  ........
I was just trying to respond to that post of yours , in order to correct your obvious   Eurocentric ignorance ,stereotypes, brainwash , prejudice ...on the subject ...that's all .
« Last Edit: 10/10/2013 18:39:28 by DonQuichotte »
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #515 on: 10/10/2013 18:02:03 »
... I've never been tempted to brag about my racial heritage; it just seems to get Germans into all sorts of trouble when they start doing that, and then no one wants to sit next to them at a dinner parties.
... your German or rather nazi "comparison " or analogy are extremely insulting , disgusting and tasteless + incorrect .Thanks a lot for nothing .

I was just trying to respond to that post of yours , in order to correct your obvious   Eurocentric ignorance ,stereotypes, brainwash , prejudice ...on the subject ...that's all .
Wow, way to miss the point, Don! So keen to take offence and Godwin the thread... maybe you should try reading Cheryl's post again, for comprehension.

« Last Edit: 10/10/2013 18:04:09 by dlorde »
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #516 on: 10/10/2013 18:19:49 »
Extended Minds :




 Our experiences of our bodies are in our bodies. The feelings in my fingers are in my fingers,
not in my head. Direct experience offers no support for the extraordinary claim that all experiences
are inside brains. Direct experience is not irrelevant to the nature of consciousness: it is
consciousness.

Well, I'm glad he's not my doctor, anyway. If feeling is in the fingers and not in the brain, why would damage to the brachial nerve plexus in the shoulder, (or a stroke) cause me to lose sensation or movement in my hand? My fingers are just fine! They weren't damaged at all.

 How would one use morphic fields to explain why bright lights or plucking an eyebrow sometimes makes people sneeze? If you don't know that the branching trigeminal cranial nerve receives information from the eyes, nose and upper brow area, and the brain sometimes misinterprets information coming from one as actually coming from another area, it makes no sense. Perception and the experience of sensation is not in the fingers (or the nose in the example above) it's in the brain.

Amputees experience phantom limbs. They experience pain, itchiness, and other sensations from a limb that clearly isn't there. (Perhaps their morphic field is itchy.) Neurologists believe that over time, the part of the brain that used to control the missing arm starts to be utilized for other body parts, and curiously, patients with phantom limb pain or itchiness can often get relief by rubbing their faces, which makes sense since the region devoted to the face is right next door in the somatosensory cortex.

There's a fun experiment called the rubber hand experiment. The participant's real hand is hidden from their sight and replaced with a rubber hand. The experimenter takes two paint brushes and gently strokes the rubber hand and the hidden hand in synchrony. Participants report a bizarre feeling that rubber hand is their hand, even though rationally, they are well aware it's fake. And if the experimenter threatens the rubber hand, with say a sharp knife, or whacks it with a hammer, they reflexively jump or jerk their own hand, even though it was never in any danger.

Another tactile illusion (called the thermal grill illusion) involves temperature receptors in the skin. One kind of temperature receptor responds to cold, 10-30 degrees C. Another responds to warm temperatures, between 30 and 45 degrees C. Both sets respond to scalding hot temperatures. If you take a kitchen fork and place it in cool water, and another in warm water for several minutes, and intertwine the tines of the warm and cool forks and place them against your skin, it creates an uncomfortable burning sensation, since usually that is the only time those receptors fire together. (That's also why your ears burn and itch when you come into a warm house on a cold day)

So what? Well, Sheldrake says direct experience is everything, we should always trust it, and yet it would appear that our consciousness can be fooled rather easily.

It's one thing to ask questions about the "hard problem" of the subjective feeling of consciousness, the unified sense of self, but Sheldrake sounds like he's denying pretty much everything in basic, first year anatomy and physiology book.


My Sheldrake's posted quotes do not necessarily reflect my own opinions  or views  on the subject,as they do not reflect those of this great site either  :
I just wanted to give you, people, his opinions views approaches ...on the subject : you're perfectly free to make of that what you wish to do ...
Despite Sheldrake's flaws , i would prefer him way above the whole majority of the scientific mainstream establishment or community put together ,on the subject , simply because he's honest enough , a man with integrity and courage enough , to condemn and to try to refute that outdated false deceptive materialist dogmatic belief system in science ...to try to liberate science from materialism that way .
He is also brave enough to dare enter a territory that's highly deceptive elusive indeed , by trying to tackle it : i think that , despite his pretty logical   human flaws ,taking into consideration the fact that all sciences and the rest are still under that materialist backward false and outdated dominance , and taking into consideration the temporary scientific data and knowledge of this time and age of ours , he should be , and he might be in the near or far future  , considered by the next generations as  1 of the greatest pioneers scientists  who dared/dare to open up whole new vistas for science away from that materialist dominance prison, science has been confined to for so long now : his work might still seem at the childish or at the embryonary stage maybe , but that's how new eras of science begin ...........others might take it from there ,and might come up with visions approaches views that might revolutionize science , our understanding of science and the universe thus , in still unimaginable -to-us -all ways ...

Quote
ps. I'd tell you some more chemistry jokes, but I only do that periodically. Anyway, the best ones argon.

haha , please do not , for your own sake, credibility  and dignity :
Do not try to risk being ridiculed and embarrassed  , if your ever try to do just that :
I am not a sadist or a cruel person , so, i warn you before hand : i will be unmerciful if you do  that  haha
Atoms do not  make up everything, neither figuratively nor literally , love ;see my post above in question on the subject .
.............
You do not only not realise the fact that those potentially materialist "jokes " , i can provide you with a whole arsenal from   by the way , are not only self-refuting self-defeating ,self-embarrassing , but they are also tasteless and incorrect ;
Worse : materialists think those materialist "jokes " are intelligent or funny = they are neither .
=Materialists cannot even come up with intelligent correct ,tastefull, or "logical " jokes
Pathetic , and tragic -hilarious ,sorry .
Only materialists, idiots or fools can come up with silly "jokes " that hit them back in the face as a launched boomerang that missed its intended target(s).

« Last Edit: 10/10/2013 18:30:35 by DonQuichotte »
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #517 on: 10/10/2013 18:24:17 »
... I've never been tempted to brag about my racial heritage; it just seems to get Germans into all sorts of trouble when they start doing that, and then no one wants to sit next to them at a dinner parties.
... your German or rather nazi "comparison " or analogy are extremely insulting , disgusting and tasteless + incorrect .Thanks a lot for nothing .

I was just trying to respond to that post of yours , in order to correct your obvious   Eurocentric ignorance ,stereotypes, brainwash , prejudice ...on the subject ...that's all .
Wow, way to miss the point, Don! So keen to take offence and Godwin the thread... maybe you should try reading Cheryl's post again, for comprehension.

Coming from Mr. miscomprehension par excellence himself, i cannot but decline this offer : try to correct your own major major major lack of comprehension regarding  what people tell you first , before trying to preach the very same to others = a paradoxical feature of a self-declared scientist ...amazing .

P.S.: Editing : you were right about that 1 thing = what a real "miracle" for  a ...self-declared scientist .....a "miracle" that shouldn't be one  .
If most scientists can make all those lethal errors of comprehension and twisting of facts ,like you do , then, i will be "praying " for science,and for its future as well  .........Amen...
« Last Edit: 10/10/2013 19:57:01 by DonQuichotte »
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #518 on: 10/10/2013 19:35:47 »
By the way, folks :
The following is not the kindda materialism i have been talking about all along : just to make sure you do not confuse it with this one :
Cheers :


A Londoner parks his brand new Porsche in front of the office to show it off to his colleagues.

As he's getting out of the car, a lorry comes speeding along too close to the curb and takes off the door before zooming off. More than a little distraught, the Londoner grabs his mobile and calls the police. Five minutes later, the police arrive.

Before the policeman has a chance to ask any questions, the man starts screaming hysterically: "My Porsche, my beautiful silver Porsche is ruined.

No matter how long it's at the panel beaters it'll simply never be the same again!"

After the man finally finishes his rant, the policeman shakes his head in disgust "I can't believe how materialistic you bloody Londoners are," he says. "You lot are so focused on your possessions that you don't notice anything else in your life."

"How can you say such a thing at a time like this?" sobs the Porsche owner.

The policeman replies, "Didn't you realize that your right arm was torn off when the truck hit you?"

The Londoner looks down in horror "cuddling  HELL!" he screams.......

"Where's my Rolex????..."
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #519 on: 10/10/2013 19:51:27 »
@ Cheryl : see this forum : Why materialism is false :

http://forums.intpcentral.com/showthread.php?15753-Why-Materialism-is-False
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #520 on: 10/10/2013 20:49:37 »
Congratulations to you and your people for inventing science. I've never been tempted to brag about my racial heritage; it just seems to get Germans into all sorts of trouble when they start doing that, and then no one wants to sit next to them at a dinner parties.

Oy vey! You think you have troubles, already? Shalom.

But give DonQ credit for the joke - I like it. And it also tells us that DonQ is a sinistral.
« Last Edit: 10/10/2013 20:51:23 by alancalverd »
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #521 on: 10/10/2013 21:14:36 »
But give DonQ credit for the joke - I like it. And it also tells us that DonQ is a sinistral.
Also give him credit that despite the usual ill-mannered insults to me for pointing out his blunder, he did go back and edit his post to remove the offensive 'nazi' reference...
« Last Edit: 10/10/2013 21:21:11 by dlorde »
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #522 on: 10/10/2013 23:24:08 »
Offending nazis is not a crime, surely?
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #523 on: 11/10/2013 00:23:30 »
Offending nazis is not a crime, surely?
It was once; different time, different place ;)
 

Offline cheryl j

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #524 on: 11/10/2013 01:43:15 »

My Sheldrake's posted quotes do not necessarily reflect my own opinions  or views  on the subject,as they do not reflect those of this great site either  :
I just wanted to give you, people, his opinions views approaches ...on the subject : you're perfectly free to make of that what you wish to do ...
Despite Sheldrake's flaws , i would prefer him way above the whole majority of the scientific mainstream establishment or community put together ,on the subject , simply because he's honest enough , a man with integrity and courage enough , to condemn and to try to refute that outdated false deceptive materialist dogmatic belief system in science ...to try to liberate science from materialism that way .
He is also brave enough to dare enter a territory that's highly deceptive elusive indeed , by trying to tackle it : i think that , despite his pretty logical   human flaws ,taking into consideration the fact that all sciences and the rest are still under that materialist backward false and outdated dominance , and taking into consideration the temporary scientific data and knowledge of this time and age of ours , he should be , and he might be in the near or far future  , considered by the next generations as  1 of the greatest pioneers scientists  who dared/dare to open up whole new vistas for science away from that materialist dominance prison, science has been confined to for so long now : his work might still seem at the childish or at the embryonary stage maybe , but that's how new eras of science begin ...........others might take it from there ,and might come up with visions approaches views that might revolutionize science , our understanding of science and the universe thus , in still unimaginable -to-us -all ways ...


If you are going to post long passages from books without any accompanying comments, I can only assume you are using them to support your arguments, and that is why I respond to them the way I do. If you are just posting them to edify or entertain me, thank you. I did give me greater insight into his strange lack of factual knowledge underlying his conclusions.
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #524 on: 11/10/2013 01:43:15 »

 

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