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Author Topic: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?  (Read 309182 times)

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #700 on: 27/10/2013 17:22:51 »
I am not a ghost to come back and haunt you :
How can I miss you if you won't go away?

I do go away every single day that God makes : i do not live in here .so.


 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #701 on: 27/10/2013 17:27:34 »
Cheryl + dlorde :

There is a big difference between the materialist misinterpretations of science ,of science results , science experiments , science approaches , and pure science .

Major example ? = materialist reductionism in science+ its materialist meta-paradigm in all sciences and elsewhere  .

Example :

There are some scientific experiments concerning the fact that handicaped people might be able , in the near or far future , to  move their paralyzed , dysfunctional , amputated or other ...limbs, bodies ....via some implanted chips in the brain , or via some robots those handicaped people might get connected to via their brains' activity  .

There are also scientific facts that prove the fact to be true that people might be able , in the near or far future , to drive their own cars , move robots or machines ,just via their brain's activity or via their thoughts ...

Does that mean that human thought or consciousness are just the products of the brain's neuronal activity ?

No way .


Yup - surprisingly, I agree with all of that (except that scientific 'facts' are provisional and don't strictly 'prove' anything).
[/quote]

Well, you do misinterpret scientific experiments , scientific data ....every single day :
Major example : consciousness is allegedly created by the brain activity ,memory also, human reason or intellect also  ....to mention just that ...and that one can explain everything in terms of just physics and chemistry ...

How absurd paradoxical and unscientific can you be indeed , together with the majority of scientists today ...

See below : read that on the subject .
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #702 on: 28/10/2013 18:49:02 »
dlorde :

What do you have to say regarding what Sheldrake stated here below , regarding materialism in science : (That post of mine in question was removed for no reason really : that post is relevant to all sciences in fact ...since materialism has been dominating in all sciences and elsewhere ,for so long now ) :

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=49378.new#top
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #703 on: 28/10/2013 21:31:14 »
What do you have to say regarding what Sheldrake stated...
Many of his 'ten core beliefs' of scientists are deliberately provocative straw men, misrepresentations, & red herrings (e.g.  number 1 includes a blatant false dichotomy). The few that are close to the reality are features of working models, provisional, & hypotheses based on empirical evidence. The core beliefs axioms of science are that there exists an observable, testable, objective reality, and that it behaves consistently in some respects. Scientists are a diverse bunch, but if more than a small minority of them subscribe to the essence of all those 'core beliefs', some of Sheldrake's criticism may indeed be relevant to them.

The rest of that article is a rehash of critiques of 'the problems with science' done better elsewhere, but with extra fallacies & vague handwaving. The most obvious fallacy is the common conflation of 'unexplained' with 'inexplicable' with regard to a particular methodology.

In general, I refer you to my previous post on Sheldrake (#493).
« Last Edit: 28/10/2013 21:33:07 by dlorde »
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #704 on: 29/10/2013 17:23:40 »
What do you have to say regarding what Sheldrake stated...
Many of his 'ten core beliefs' of scientists are deliberately provocative straw men, misrepresentations, & red herrings (e.g.  number 1 includes a blatant false dichotomy). The few that are close to the reality are features of working models, provisional, & hypotheses based on empirical evidence. The core beliefs axioms of science are that there exists an observable, testable, objective reality, and that it behaves consistently in some respects. Scientists are a diverse bunch, but if more than a small minority of them subscribe to the essence of all those 'core beliefs', some of Sheldrake's criticism may indeed be relevant to them.

The rest of that article is a rehash of critiques of 'the problems with science' done better elsewhere, but with extra fallacies & vague handwaving. The most obvious fallacy is the common conflation of 'unexplained' with 'inexplicable' with regard to a particular methodology.

In general, I refer you to my previous post on Sheldrake (#493).
[/quote]

Weak "argumentation " : how can you deny that materialism as a secular false belief has been dominating in all aciences and elsewhere,for so long now  ?
How can you deny the fact that  the mechanistic materialist world view ideology has been taken for  granted without question but the mainstream scientific extablishment or community ?
The mechanistic materialist world view-ideology  that dates back to the 19th century at least , that remains not only largely taken for granted , but also remains largely considered  to be as science , together with all its extensions such as "the mind is in the brain " , that " human cognition is just a matter of neuronal comuptation", that "consciousness is just an emergent property from the evolved complexity of the brain ...
In short : that everything can be explained in terms of physics and chemistry , and that reality is exclusively material physical ...
How can you deny all that and more ? all those mechanistic materialist belief assumptions that are still considered to be as ...science ?
Amazing ,but not really unexpected from you = very predictable indeed .
So much for a .....so-called scientist such as yourself who cannot see yet that simple obvious and undeniable fact that materialism is not science ....
Unbelievable ...
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #705 on: 29/10/2013 18:13:41 »
.. how can you deny that materialism as a secular false belief has been dominating in all aciences and elsewhere ...  ?
How can you deny the fact that  the mechanistic materialist world view ideology has been taken for  granted without question but the mainstream scientific extablishment or community ?
How can you deny all that and more ? all those mechanistic materialist belief assumptions that are still considered to be as ...science ?
I haven't yet denied any of it - although it's complete nonsense of course; but I don't deny claims that ducks wear gas masks, either. My last post was the response to Sheldrake's quote you requested, all criticism, no denials.

If you'd like to respond to what I write rather than what you think I might believe, a discussion might be possible. History suggests this isn't going to happen, but I thought I'd mention it.

If you really think science is suffering from a "mechanistic materialist world view ideology" (yet, as you say, is restricted to the material world), by all means explain how it has suffered, and how it would be different without it (e.g. how would it work?), and how it could be better.

You keep making the claim, but repetition alone doesn't make it convincing. You need to make your point, otherwise we just have a Monty Python situation.
« Last Edit: 29/10/2013 18:29:22 by dlorde »
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #706 on: 29/10/2013 18:35:02 »
.. how can you deny that materialism as a secular false belief has been dominating in all aciences and elsewhere ...  ?
How can you deny the fact that  the mechanistic materialist world view ideology has been taken for  granted without question but the mainstream scientific extablishment or community ?
How can you deny all that and more ? all those mechanistic materialist belief assumptions that are still considered to be as ...science ?
I haven't yet denied any of it - although it's complete nonsense of course; I don't deny claims that ducks wear gas masks, either. My last post was the response to Sheldrake's quote you requested, all criticism, no denials.

If you do not deny the above i mentioned , then try to address that then  clearly ,instead of using those sorts of circular "reasoning " or exit strategies  .
Your post in question here above was no real or clear  criticism of what Sheldrake said about materialism in science: just try to address what he said regarding materialism in science at least ,specifically and  clearly then : i did summarise Sheldrake's words for you here above in my latest post to you thus  .

P.S.: I told you earlier i was no fan of Sheldrake's so-called morphic resonance theory ,i am only interested in his so- true criticism of that false and unscientific materialist mechanistic conception of nature in all sciences and elsewhere ,that has been taken for granted for so long now ,as ...science .
I do not really need Sheldrake to specify to you why materialism is false , why is it a false world view ideology that has been imposing itself for so long now as science , in all sciences and elsewhere .
Quote
If you'd like to respond to what I write rather than what you think I might believe, a discussion might be possible. History suggests this isn't going to happen, but I thought I'd mention it.

Well, just address my words here above , in my latest post then , instead of using just semantics , circular "arguments ", and empty rhetorics regardig what Sheldrake said about materialism in science .
Try to be specific then .
« Last Edit: 29/10/2013 18:37:17 by DonQuichotte »
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #707 on: 29/10/2013 18:54:55 »
If you really think science is suffering from a "mechanistic materialist world view ideology" (yet, as you say, is restricted to the material world), by all means explain how it has suffered, and how it would be different without it (e.g. how would it work?), and how it could be better.

You keep making the claim, but repetition alone doesn't make it convincing. You need to make your point, otherwise we just have a Monty Python situation.
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #708 on: 29/10/2013 18:56:29 »
.. how can you deny that materialism as a secular false belief has been dominating in all aciences and elsewhere ...  ?
How can you deny the fact that  the mechanistic materialist world view ideology has been taken for  granted without question but the mainstream scientific extablishment or community ?
How can you deny all that and more ? all those mechanistic materialist belief assumptions that are still considered to be as ...science ?

If you really think science is suffering from a "mechanistic materialist world view ideology" (yet, as you say, is restricted to the material world), by all means explain how it has suffered, and how it would be different without it (e.g. how would it work?), and how it could be better.

God ...
It's not "if i really think science is ....", it;s rather a fact that science has been dominated for so long now by the materialist false and unscientific world view ideology , that gets taken for granted as science , can't you understand just that ?
Did you actually really read what Sheldrake said on the subject in his introduction to his "science set free ..." book , i did provide you with a link to ?
Science , once again , is concerned mainly by the material side of reality , but there is more to reality than just that : materialism in science wanna make people  believe that reality as a whole is just exclusively material ,worse ; materialism imposes that false conception of his /her or it or whatever as science = that has major consequences regarding the fact that science as a result sees reality as a whole , and dead wrongly so ,  as exclusively material, thanks to materialism = science sees consciousness, life as a whole, reality as a whole, the origins of life ,its emergence evolution and origins, the same goes for consciousness, and the rest , science sees them as exclusively material , thanks to materialism thus= wrong or false materialist unscientific assumption of the nature of reality as a whole in science , that gets taken for granted as science , thanks to that false materialist unscientific dominating conception of nature in all sciences ...
Get that ?
We need first to establish these simple obvious undeniable facts (It's really insane to have to try ,nowadays, to convince people of simple obvious undeniable facts like that , per definition = every sane intelligent person should recognize and acknowledge those simple obvious undeniable facts as such thus,logically  )  , then we can proceed regarding the potential eventual alternatives to materialism in all sciences ...
Quote

You keep making the claim, but repetition alone doesn't make it convincing. You need to make your point, otherwise we just have a Monty Python situation.

Those were / are no claims , but facts = the materialist false and unscientific conception of nature or ideology world view has been taken for granted for so long now as ...science : can't you understand just that ? Come, on .
Amazing ...
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #709 on: 29/10/2013 19:36:47 »
... science as a result sees reality as a whole ... science sees consciousness, life as a whole, reality as a whole, ..., science sees them as exclusively material...
Science doesn't 'see', or have opinions or beliefs - it is the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment. Scientists can see, and have a wide variety of opinions and beliefs. You seem to be confusing the two.
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #710 on: 29/10/2013 19:58:00 »
... science as a result sees reality as a whole ... science sees consciousness, life as a whole, reality as a whole, ..., science sees them as exclusively material...
Science doesn't 'see', or have opinions or beliefs - it is the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment. Scientists can see, and have a wide variety of opinions and beliefs. You seem to be confusing the two.
[/quote]

Science "sees ..." was just a metaphorical figure of speech .
Why don't you address what i and Sheldrake said about the materialist mechanist dogmatic belief system dominating in all sciences for that matter , and elsewhere .
Once again, the mainstream dominating conception of nature in all sciences and elsewhere has been ...the materialist one ,since the 19 th century and counting = materialist dominating belief assumptions that do have absolutely nothing to do with the empirical science as such, even though they have been taken for granted as such as ...science  .

You're really making me nuts , by not being able to grasp this simple obvious and undeniable fact , over and over again ......for so long now : incredible .
So much for a so-called scientist ...
Amazing ...
You have been so irritating and frustrating that i just did let, unintentionally ,my glass of coffee fall and break as a result ...........
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #711 on: 29/10/2013 21:51:32 »
Why don't you address what i and Sheldrake said about the materialist mechanist dogmatic belief system dominating in all sciences for that matter , and elsewhere .
Once again, the mainstream dominating conception of nature in all sciences and elsewhere has been ...the materialist one ,since the 19 th century and counting = materialist dominating belief assumptions that do have absolutely nothing to do with the empirical science as such, even though they have been taken for granted as such as ...science  .
I have already. Let me clarify: I think the claim is incoherent and unsubstantiated.

If you really think science is suffering from a "mechanistic materialist world view ideology" or dominated by a "materialist mechanist dogmatic belief system" (yet, as you admit, is necessarily restricted to the material realm), then by all means explain how it has suffered, and how it would be different without it (e.g. how would it work?), and how it could be better as a result.

Quote
You have been so irritating and frustrating that i just did let, unintentionally ,my glass of coffee fall and break as a result ...........
You are funny! but I accept no responsibility for your lack of control :)
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #712 on: 29/10/2013 22:01:17 »
Why don't you address what i and Sheldrake said about the materialist mechanist dogmatic belief system dominating in all sciences for that matter , and elsewhere .
Once again, the mainstream dominating conception of nature in all sciences and elsewhere has been ...the materialist one ,since the 19 th century and counting = materialist dominating belief assumptions that do have absolutely nothing to do with the empirical science as such, even though they have been taken for granted as such as ...science  .
I have already. Let me clarify: I think the claim is incoherent and unsubstantiated.

If you really think science is suffering from a "mechanistic materialist world view ideology" or dominated by a "materialist mechanist dogmatic belief system" (yet, as you admit, is necessarily restricted to the material realm), then by all means explain how it has suffered, and how it would be different without it (e.g. how would it work?), and how it could be better as a result.

Quote
You have been so irritating and frustrating that i just did let, unintentionally ,my glass of coffee fall and break as a result ...........
You are funny! but I accept no responsibility for your lack of control :)
[/quote]

God ...

Is reality as a whole just physical material ?
Think about that and the rest , and tell me about it .
No time left , sorry .
Ciao
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #713 on: 29/10/2013 23:22:32 »
God ...
Your imaginary friend?

Quote
Is reality as a whole just physical material ?
That's what the evidence suggests (unless you count the imaginary). How could it do otherwise?

If you really think science is suffering from a "mechanistic materialist world view ideology" or dominated by a "materialist mechanist dogmatic belief system" (yet, as you admit, is necessarily restricted to the material realm), then by all means explain how it has suffered, and how it would be different without it (e.g. how would it work?), and how it could be better as a result.
« Last Edit: 29/10/2013 23:24:22 by dlorde »
 

Offline cheryl j

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #714 on: 30/10/2013 15:52:18 »
God ...


Quote
Is reality as a whole just physical material ?
That's what the evidence suggests (unless you count the imaginary). How could it do otherwise?

If you really think science is suffering from a "mechanistic materialist world view ideology" or dominated by a "materialist mechanist dogmatic belief system" (yet, as you admit, is necessarily restricted to the material realm), then by all means explain how it has suffered, and how it would be different without it (e.g. how would it work?), and how it could be better as a result.


That seems like a fair request. And it also illustrates the problem with Sheldrake and Nagel. They are big on criticism, and short on any detailed explanation of how to test hypotheses their way.
« Last Edit: 30/10/2013 15:56:37 by cheryl j »
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #715 on: 30/10/2013 16:07:55 »
How can I miss you if you won't go away?
I do go away every single day that God makes : i do not live in here .so.
Hmm; even people who don't know Dan Hicks usually get the joke.
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #716 on: 30/10/2013 17:35:24 »
God ...
Your imaginary friend?

Stop this materialist non-sense , it's not even funny .

Quote
Quote
Is reality as a whole just physical material ?
That's what the evidence suggests (unless you count the imaginary). How could it do otherwise?

Ho, ho , now you're getting ahead of yourself : unbelievable : what evidence are you talking about , Alice ? : materialist fantasy ?
Quote
If you really think science is suffering from a "mechanistic materialist world view ideology" or dominated by a "materialist mechanist dogmatic belief system" (yet, as you admit, is necessarily restricted to the material realm), then by all means explain how it has suffered, and how it would be different without it (e.g. how would it work?), and how it could be better as a result.

Thanks to materialism, science is deluded into assuming that reality is exclusively material physical .
Science that tries to explain reality , therefore is science misleaded into dealing with reality as a whole just through  that materialist key hole ,while assuming that what science can "see " through that materialist key hole is all there is out there : that has major consequences for science in relation to the nature origins and emergence of consciousness, life , feelings , emotions , memory,human reason  ....and the rest .
Even the inanimate matter is not just material physical = science gives therefore a distorted reflection of reality as a whole ,thanks to materialism in science , despite all those great achievements of science ,unfortunately enough .

 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #717 on: 30/10/2013 17:49:38 »
God ...


Quote
Is reality as a whole just physical material ?
That's what the evidence suggests (unless you count the imaginary). How could it do otherwise?

If you really think science is suffering from a "mechanistic materialist world view ideology" or dominated by a "materialist mechanist dogmatic belief system" (yet, as you admit, is necessarily restricted to the material realm), then by all means explain how it has suffered, and how it would be different without it (e.g. how would it work?), and how it could be better as a result.


That seems like a fair request. And it also illustrates the problem with Sheldrake and Nagel. They are big on criticism, and short on any detailed explanation of how to test hypotheses their way.
[/quote]

See my reply to dlorde here above .
You're so blinded by materialism that you do take it for granted as science without question : it   rather illustrates the problem of materialists such as yourself who cannot or do not want to see that that false and unscientific materialist irrational belief of theirs has abolutely nothing to do with science , materialist belief that has just been holding science  back  for so long now , the outdated and superseded materialist belief that dates back to the 19th century , materialist belief that has been imposed on science as science in order to try to "validate " itself, in vain of course , materialist belief that's just been taking a free ride on the unwilling back of science .
It makes no sense whatsoever to assume that reality as a whole is exclusively material physical = a childish idiotic irrational false , and , per definition, an unscientific assumption science has never proved to be "true " ,simply because science deals only with the empirical observable verifiable falsifiable reproducible ...part of reality = science can therefore say nothing , per definition , regarding the other part of reality = the immaterial one,that does therefore not mean that the latter does not exist as such  .
Is that so difficult to understand or grasp ?
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #718 on: 30/10/2013 18:02:32 »
... science gives therefore a distorted reflection of reality as a whole ,thanks to materialism in science...
OK, we get the point; endless repetition doesn't help. Why not answer the obvious questions:

If science is suffering from a "mechanistic materialist world view ideology" or has been dominated by a "materialist mechanist dogmatic belief system" (yet, as you admit, is necessarily restricted to the material realm), then please explain how it has suffered, and how it would be different without it (e.g. how would it work?), and how it could be better as a result.
 

Offline cheryl j

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #719 on: 30/10/2013 18:18:12 »
My own beliefs are not the issue here Don. I've already stated my views, and the reasons behind them.

Do you not see any contradiction in what you have just written above? Do you not see anything wrong with your statements:

1) materialist belief has been holding science back
2) materialist belief  has been imposed on science
3)  materialist belief has been taking a free ride on the unwilling back of science
4)  reality as a whole is not exclusively material or physical
5) science deals only with the empirical observable verifiable falsifiable reproducible part of reality
6) science can therefore say nothing , per definition , regarding the other part of reality, the immaterial

Nobody ever disputed that "reality" might include the immaterial, but if science can say nothing verifiable about the immaterial, what is your beef with scientists for ignoring it?

How can you complain about people not doing something that you've just said is impossible for them to do? How can you fault them for not doing it?
« Last Edit: 30/10/2013 19:12:26 by cheryl j »
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #720 on: 30/10/2013 19:25:57 »
Quote
Has science ever proved the materialist "fact " to be "true " , or rather the materialist belief assumption to be "true " that reality as a whole is just exclusively physical material ?

Why on Earth would science even be interested? Science doesn't deal with "reality as a whole", Learning does. Science deals with "Observable Reality".

For example, I believe in God, but I do not believe that science can or will ever prove or disprove God. Of course, God is not observable and, consequently, science is not in the least interested in proving or disproving God. My concept of Reality - my areas of Learning, if you like - encompass more than science, but I consider them all equally valid and quite distinct.

Well, that's the core issue here : the core materialist belief assumption is that the whole reality is exclusively material physical = everyhting can be explained just in terms of physics and chemistry alone , so science has been assuming the same false materialis assumption since the 19th century at least

That the whole reality is physical material = there is no God, no immaterial side of reality ...=  all sciences under the exclusive monopoly and supremacy dominance of materialism thus have been assuming therefore that the whole reality is exclusively material physical = there is no God, no immaterial side of reality ...even though science , per definition, can neither prove nor disprove the existence of neither God nor that of the  immaterial side of reality thus  .
But , proper science as such can indeed thus neither prove nor disprove God or the immaterial side of reality : materialism has thus been making science go beyond its own relam and jurisdiction .

Science proper must and will get rid of that false materialist conception of nature indeed .

If you trace back materialism to its historic cultural ideological political philosophical economic ...Eurocentric roots , you would notice that materialism has been just a product of medieval 's Europe religious conflicts : materialism that has been anti-religion since then, by rejecting anything that is not observable testable empirical .... : materialism goes thus beyond science and its scientific method, beyond both the realm and jurisdiction of science , while imposing all that as science  :
materialism that , per definition, can only lead to atheism  and reductionism by reducing everything to just physics and chemistry , by rejecting christianity  and all other religions as well  = there is no God , no immaterial reality ...= materialist ideological belief assumptions that have been imposed on science since the 19th century at least as science , for obvious ideological materialist purposes , in order for materialism to "be able to validate itself as being true " through science as science : so, science has been assuming that the whole reality is material physical thus , thanks to materialism thus , science has been therefore assuming, since the 19th century at least , thanks to materialsm thus ,  that everything = the whole reality thus can be explained in terms of physics and chemsitry only : an obviously false assumption in all sciences and elsewhere , science gotta get rid of , and science will indeed = inevitable = just a question of ...time thus .
Only time will tell then ....
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #721 on: 30/10/2013 19:31:58 »
Science can try to approach the non-physical and non-biological non-material side of reality as a whole

And there, I believe, is the rub. Yes, Science can, but then it wouldn't be Science. It comes back to the confusion about what "science" is that I mentioned in my last post.

Science tries to deal only with the observable empirical faslifiable verifiable reproducible part of reality  indeed  , so, science can therefore also study  telepathy , pyshic and other claims of some people via trying to test them to see if those claims can be reproducible verifiable falsifiable  testable  ....but , science can say indeed nothing regarding the nature of telepathy , the nature of the alleged psychic skills ....
There are many forms of the scientific method , not just one thus : cosmologists , for example , cannot put stars , planets , galaxies ...the sun haha ...into the lab to study them..........they have their own scientific ways of studying them as you know .


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Science is not and never will be the spring of all knowledge. The correct term for this is Learning and its goal is, basically, knowing all there is to know. Its a pretty big area so, in order to acquire Learning, we break it down in to various areas. Science is just one, along with many others, both respectable and not. Science deals with the observable, basta! There may come a day when our descendants can tick of the "science" box in Learning because science has done its job. It has classified everything that can be observed. Perhaps, along the way, we will evolve additional sensory mechanisms and science will need expanding; who knows where such an expansion could lead?

Science is indeed not the only valid source of knowledge , science has no monopoly of the truth either , science can only cover a tiny piece of reality , the known one so far at least , that does not mean that all what science cannot observe test verify falsify reproduce ....is false or that that does not exist as such  , as materialism in science assumes so wrongly of course , for obvious materialist ideological reasons thus= materialists assume thus that the whole reality is just physical material , and therefore reject God, religions , telepathy , psychic powers ...but , pure science or science proper can neither prove nor disprove the existence of the immaterial side of reality in fact thus , the existence of God ....= do you see here the major difference between materialism as a false belief and science ? materialism that gets sold to the people as science by making science reduce verything= the whole reality  to just physics and chemistry thus , including life , consciousness, memory , human love , human spirituality , human reason , human conscience ...

Science cannot , per definition , make us know thus all there is to know out there , simply because science deals only with that tiny piece of reality it can observe test reproduce verify falsify ....

Science is a human limited tool instrument to understand and explain reality thus , the part of reality it can deal with , science is thus no magic or no Alaaddin magical lamp ,despite its huge achievements , despite its highly effective and unparalleled method (s) that's like no other , despite its high descipline ....
Those science's ideals of unbiased objective disciplined methodic approaches  of reality are rarely reached by scientists humans : proof ? : that false materialist belief in all sciences and elsewhere that gets taken for granted without question as science , by the mainstream scientific establishment or community = objectivity is a myth .

Do not forget either that science is just a human social activity, a form of culture , practiced by scientists humans via their limited faculties, flaws ,shortcomings , beliefs (see the materialist belief that's been dominating in all sciences for that matter and elsewhere , materialist belief that gets presented and sold to the people as science , while materialism as a false world view has nothing to do with science , science has never proved , and can never prove the materialist "fact ", or rather the materialist belief assumption to be "true " that reality as a whole is exclusively material physical , simply because science deals only with the observable testable verifiable empirical ...side of reality , and therefore science can say nothing , per definition, regarding the other potential part of reality = that does not mean that the latter does not exist as such .), science is practiced thus by scientists humans through their whole beings ,objectivity in science is a myth in fact : proof ? = the  false and , per definition, unscientific materialist belief that's been dominating in all sciences and elsewhere , and that gets taken for granted as science by the majority of scientists today .

Maybe , in the future , it's highly probable indeed in fact that man will be able to extend or broaden his/her understanding of what science is , what the scientific method is , through developing an extended scientific method through its epistemology that might deliver some new understandings of science and its core epistemology , via highly probable undersandings of what man is , what man's consciousness might be,relatively speaking  , what man's reason emotions feelings intuition and senses are really = that might deliver some advanced forms of the scientific method or methods ...
Technology might also broaden our own understanding of man , nature , the universe ....= in still unimaginable ways-to-all-of-us yet .
Only time will tell then indeed , but we might be not there to witness just that ourselves, who knows .

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In the meantime it is Sciences job to define the origin of life according to what it can observe and test. Science is not there yet but it is making great headway. It is counter-productive to muddy the boundaries between science and other areas of Learning, unless one is selling sensational books or videos; I have no time for Shelldrakes or any of the myriad psuedo-scientists of the religious press who are constantly using this tactic to denigrate science. It is what it is.

As long as science will keep on reducing the whole reality to just physics and chemistry (thanks to materialism ) , including life , consciousness , emotions feelings , human reason , human conscience ....science will just be giving us a distorted reflection of reality as a whole  ,unfortunately enough .
Only when science will reject materialism , an inevitable fact , simply because materialism is outdated false and has been superseded by the physical sciences themselves even , and simply because science's self-rejuvenating and self - cleansing , self - regenerating critical powers faculties and inrinsic properties can enable science to reject all false assumptions , including and mainly those of materialism , when science thus will be able to do just that , whole   unimaginable new vistas will open up for science , when science will cease thus to "see " the whole reality as just a matter of physics and chemistry thus.
 

Offline cheryl j

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #722 on: 30/10/2013 22:55:27 »
You know one minute I think I'm in one thread, and then I'm magically transported to another.
 

Offline cheryl j

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #723 on: 30/10/2013 23:07:43 »
Smart Neurons: Single Neuronal Dendrites Can Perform Computations
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131027140632.htm

Well this is kind of interesting to ponder.
 
"The scientists achieved an important breakthrough: they succeeded in making incredibly challenging electrical and optical recordings directly from the tiny dendrites of neurons in the intact brain while the brain was processing visual information.....The results challenge the widely held view that this kind of computation is achieved only by large numbers of neurons working together, and demonstrate how the basic components of the brain are exceptionally powerful computing devices in their own right."

The study was published this week in Nature.
 

Offline SimpleEngineer

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #724 on: 31/10/2013 15:31:21 »

As long as science will keep on reducing the whole reality to just physics and chemistry (thanks to materialism ) , including life , consciousness , emotions feelings , human reason , human conscience ....science will just be giving us a distorted reflection of reality as a whole  ,unfortunately enough .
Only when science will reject materialism , an inevitable fact , simply because materialism is outdated false and has been superseded by the physical sciences themselves even , and simply because science's self-rejuvenating and self - cleansing , self - regenerating critical powers faculties and inrinsic properties can enable science to reject all false assumptions , including and mainly those of materialism , when science thus will be able to do just that , whole   unimaginable new vistas will open up for science , when science will cease thus to "see " the whole reality as just a matter of physics and chemistry thus.


I wouldnt say science tries to reduce things to chemistry and physics. I would say that what science can observe is chemistry and physics by nature.. because science cant explain things doesn't mean they will stop trying to as that is the nature of science. You state things which have yet to be proven as not chemistry or physics as things that cannot be proven by chemistry or physics, as things that aren't chemistry or physics.. but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Science has recently (last century on wards) tried to tell us things work in a certain way without solid proof.. and it is a trend that worries me (as I have posted a few threads and posts about the very same subject) but science itself abhors these, and it will eventually weed them out. Its not a battle against spiritualism, its trying to find an explanation for it. Saying "you will never know" is about as much use as reading a book from a hat to form a religion.. (oh wait someone did that).
 

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #724 on: 31/10/2013 15:31:21 »

 

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