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Author Topic: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?  (Read 309809 times)

Offline cheryl j

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #875 on: 23/11/2013 18:28:01 »


".... that qualia are different from other brain states in that they possess three functional characteristics, which we state in the form of ‘three laws of qualia ’ based on a loose analogy with Newton’s three laws of classical mechanics......"

To try to explain the mental in terms of physics and chemistry , in terms of physical laws ,or to try to reduce the mental to just the latter is just an extension of the materialist false conception of nature .Absurd .

Again, there's nothing inherently materialistic about observing what qualia do or do not do, when they are present and when they are not - unless, you believe (and I suspect you do) that the immaterial has no mechanisms, follows no laws. In which case, then every conceivable experiment is invalid, or at best inconclusive. Ironically, that includes any hypothetical experiment about any aspect of the immaterial, since one would have no way of knowing how other aspects of the immaterial might influence the experiment or manifest themselves that day. Your model predicts that everything is unintelligible, including the model itself. That's why your argument is irrational.
« Last Edit: 23/11/2013 20:19:27 by cheryl j »
 

Offline cheryl j

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #876 on: 23/11/2013 18:57:05 »
In that article, Ramachandran & Hirstein are saying qualia provide data for choice, are irrevocable (you can't change how they feel) and require short term memory. For example, when touching a hotplate, there is a reflex withdrawal - no choice, no memory required, no qualia involved; but shortly after, the pain quale is experienced, which allows a choice of response to be considered. This suggests qualia are generated to give meaning to the input; the meaning arises from the associations triggered by the qualia, and it is this meaning that allows the selection of appropriate response (choice). So if a quale of pain triggers associations of reward in some context, it will have a different meaning than if it triggers associations of failure, and so the response will likely be different.

To be more speculative: The article also emphasises the multiple levels of feedback throughout the processing chain, so it also seems to me possible that the meaning(s) associated with a quale may modify the experienced quale through this feedback (bear in mind that a quale is not a 'thing', but just a generic label for a sensation). In other words, the same input may generate different qualia over time, depending, not just on the situational context, but also on feedback from the results of the choices made, which change the associated meaning, which in turn changes the qualia (e.g., you no longer feel that particular input as pain, or you feel it as a different sort of pain). So a particular quale is irrevocable, but not necessarily the consistent result of a particular input stimulus.

I also liked the part about qualia distinguishing real from imaginary, that if beliefs, ideas, memories, etc had qualia as vivid as those associated with perception, it would be impossible for the brain to distinguish between the idea of a monkey sitting in a chair and an actual one; thinking about eating a meal would seem equivalent to actually eating it.


"Therefore (real perceptual) qualia are protected; they are partially insulated from top-down influences....
....At the same time, however, you occasionally need to run a virtual reality simulation using less vivid qualia generated from memory representations in order to makeappropriate decisions in the absence of the objects which normally  provoke those qualia. The memories one normally evokes in this case are not fully laden with qualia; they have qualia which are just vivid enough to allow you to run the simulation. Ifthey possessed full-strength qualia, again, that would be  dangerous; indeed that’s called a hallucination. Presumably that’s what happens in temporal lobe seizures;some mechanism has gone awry, and the virtual reality simulation has now become like real sensory input. The simulation loses its revocability and generates pathological qualia."
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #877 on: 23/11/2013 18:59:16 »


".... that qualia are different from other brain states in that they possess three functional characteristics, which we state in the form of ‘three laws of qualia ’ based on a loose analogy with Newton’s three laws of classical mechanics......"

To try to explain the mental in terms of physics and chemistry , in terms of physical laws ,or to try to reduce the mental to just the latter is just an extension of the materialist false conception of nature .Absurd .

Again, there's nothing inherently materialistic about observing what qualia do or do not do, when they are present and when they are not - unless, you believe (and I suspect you do) that the immaterial has no mechanisms, follows no laws. In which case, then every conceivable experiment is invalid, or at best inconclusive. Ironically, that includes any hypothetical experiment about any aspect of the immaterial, since one would have no way of knowing how other aspects of the immaterial might influence the experiment or manifest themselves that day. Your model predicts that everything is unknowable, including itself. That's why your argument is irrational.
[/quote]



Come on, be serious : consciousness or qualia can be explained by laws , similar to  those of Newton ? haha : just in terms of physics and chemistry ?

Why is that so laughable? Regardless, of how you believe qualia are generated, should it be impossible to say what they do, or do not do; when they occur  and when they do not? Is there no rational statement, no consistent observation, one can make about them at all?

".... that qualia are different from other brain states in that they possess three functional characteristics, which we state in the form of ‘three laws of qualia ’ based on a loose analogy with Newton’s three laws of classical mechanics......"

To try to explain the mental in terms of physics and chemistry , in terms of physical laws ,or to try to reduce the mental to just the latter is just an extension of the materialist false conception of nature .Absurd .

Quote
Quote
Well, for your info : any given sane average person does experience the fact that consciousness is non-physical , and hence escapes any laws of physics .

A person may perceive electricity as non-physical as well, because he cannot see electrons or voltage. Without a microscope, he cannot "experience" the microorganisms that are making him ill. Do these things exist?

Have you ever been slightly electrocuted ?

All i am saying is that consciousness is non-physical , as we all experience it to be , in total contrast with materialism which reduces consciousness to just biological processes .


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Ramachandran ? hahah  ( This scientist 's work is so interesting and fascinating that it is a complete waste that he tries to misinterpret it , just in materialistic mechanistic terms ,unfortunately enough )  , Dennett  haha  ...come on , be serious : those are the very embodiement of what 's really so wrong about science today = they are the core embodiement of that toxic false orthodox dogmatic materialistic secular religion in science , in the sense that the "mind is in the brain , memory is stored in the brain ..." : tragic-hilarious,in the sense that 'everything = nothing " can be explained just in terms of physics and chemistry ,including the mind or consciousness  .

That lunatic Dennet  even says that consciousness as such might not exist , that we might all be just zombies taking the illusion of consciousness for real ....

Actually, in the article, Ramachandran disagrees with Dennett on certain things, and gives some explanation why we are not unconscious zombies, or how one would not expect the results he gets in certain experiments, if we were.

I'd be happy to hear your true and non-toxic, non orthodox-dogmatic-materialistic-secular,  interpretation of  Ramachandron's findings, and how he should have interpreted his results.  I asked you earlier about hallucinations, and how they would be generated by the immaterial consciousness, but you declined to discuss it.


Grosso modo :
Well,  i said many times , that the material or the physical is just one single aspect or 1 single part of the whole pic , the mental is the other part , the mental that's more fundamental than the physical or the material, and hence physics and chemistry are just one single aspect of the whole pic , and a less fundamental part at that ,so, there might be some sort of formative or other totally different forms of causation out there , non-physical ones at that , which might be underlying the laws of physics themselves :

See , for example , how epigenetics have been refuting the materialist mechanistic neo-Darwinian view of the world ,regarding inheritance : acquired characteristics get passed on from generation to generation :
Darwin himself by the way was a convinced Lamarckian ,in the sense that he did accept that kind of inheritance , while even trying to deliver some theories to explain just that : the materialist neo-Darwinians such as Dennett , Dawkins ...do reject that Lamarckian view of evolution and inheritance , obviously .
See the following on the subject :

 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #878 on: 23/11/2013 19:08:06 »
In short :

Science must start looking for non-physical forms of causation, or for non-physical or mental phenomena , that are still unknown to science ,  that might or must be underlying the laws of physics themselves , by rejecting reductionist materialism .

Then, and only then, will science or biology , in this case , be able to explain epigenetics , morphogenesis , birds' homing ..........and most of the rest , hopefully .

Untill then, science will just continue to try to explain "everything = nothing ", just in terms of physics and chemistry alone , the latter that cannot account for life fully , let alone its evolution, emergence or origins , let alone that physics and chemistry can account for consciousness ....
Evolution itself , matter itself , life itself ,and most of the rest that cannot be just physical, material or biological thus .

The mind , the mental or the non-physical is  way too primordial and fundamental than matter can ever be , the mental that's irreducible to the physical or to the material .
The mental that's the most fundamental side of the  whole pic of reality as a whole = there is nothing 'supernatural " in it : the non-physical mental is thus ...normal = that's just the other side of the whole pic =the more fundamental one than the physical or material side of the whole pic,  the mental that might be underlying the material or physical  side of the whole pic = physics and chemistry , the laws of physics are a way less fundamental side of the whole pic thus .
« Last Edit: 23/11/2013 19:19:29 by DonQuichotte »
 

Offline cheryl j

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #879 on: 23/11/2013 19:11:37 »

When science thus will realise and acknowledge the fact that reality as a whole is not just physical or material , including evolution, the mind or consciousness , and the rest , including matter itself (see modern physics regarding the latter )



It's really a shame that you don't share some of your ideas about chaos theory, observers, causality etc. on the physics forum. They don't know what they are missing.
 

Offline cheryl j

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #880 on: 23/11/2013 19:16:45 »


See , for example , how epigenetics have been refuting the materialist mechanistic neo-Darwinian view of the world ,regarding inheritance : acquired characteristics get passed on from generation to generation :



There's nothing immaterial about epigenetics. It's just an additional physical mechanism or process that affects genes besides mutation.
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #881 on: 23/11/2013 19:25:39 »
... See , for example , how epigenetics have been refuting the materialist mechanistic neo-Darwinian view of the world ,regarding inheritance : acquired characteristics get passed on from generation to generation :
Darwin himself by the way was a convinced Lamarckian ,in the sense that he did accept that kind of inheritance , while even trying to deliver some theories to explain just that : the materialist neo-Darwinians such as Dennett , Dawkins ...do reject that Lamarckian view of evolution and inheritance , obviously ...
Ah, no. Epigenetics isn't inheritance of acquired characteristics in the Lamarkian sense. Epigenetics is about environmental influences (typically stressors) affecting the physiology of an individual and causing suppression of certain genes via methylation; this gene suppression is potentially heritable. So the only acquired characteristic is the methylation of certain genes.
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #882 on: 23/11/2013 19:27:06 »
Quote


See , for example , how epigenetics have been refuting the materialist mechanistic neo-Darwinian view of the world ,regarding inheritance : acquired characteristics get passed on from generation to generation :



There's nothing immaterial about epigenetics. It's just an additional physical mechanism or process that affects genes besides mutation.

What makes genes get "imprinted " by acquired characteristics or by acquired enviromental traits ,such as the implications of famine , holocaust , war traumas ....such as tragic events ...as to behave as if they "hold " some sort of a "memory " of past events ...they pass on to the next generations, and beyond ? How does that happen ? just via physics and chemistry ? How ?
Mechanistic materialist neo-Darwinian science excludes , per definition, the Lamarckian Darwinian epigenetics= epigenetics as a scientific heresy .
« Last Edit: 23/11/2013 19:28:54 by DonQuichotte »
 

Offline RD

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #883 on: 23/11/2013 19:30:22 »
Science must start looking for non-physical forms of causation, or for non-physical or mental phenomena , that are still unknown to science ,  that might or must be underlying the laws of physics themselves , by rejecting reductionist materialism .

Then, and only then, will science or biology , in this case , be able to explain epigenetics , morphogenesis , birds' homing

You must have missed my posts on ...

morphogenesis , see ... http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=49531.msg424665#msg424665

and

birds homing , see ...  http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=49531.msg424182#msg424182
« Last Edit: 23/11/2013 19:33:44 by RD »
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #884 on: 23/11/2013 19:53:19 »
I also liked the part about qualia distinguishing real from imaginary, that if beliefs, ideas, memories, etc had qualia as vivid as those associated with perception, it would be impossible for the brain to distinguish between the idea of a monkey sitting in a chair and an actual one; thinking about eating a meal would seem equivalent to actually eating it.
Yes; particularly relevant to me as I realise how many of my past memories consist of a blend of real and dreamed content. If dreams are involved in the encoding of current experiences to long term storage, this integration of dream material is not unexpected, and perhaps helps to explain the unreliability of even seemingly vivid memories.
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #885 on: 23/11/2013 19:58:22 »
... See , for example , how epigenetics have been refuting the materialist mechanistic neo-Darwinian view of the world ,regarding inheritance : acquired characteristics get passed on from generation to generation :
Darwin himself by the way was a convinced Lamarckian ,in the sense that he did accept that kind of inheritance , while even trying to deliver some theories to explain just that : the materialist neo-Darwinians such as Dennett , Dawkins ...do reject that Lamarckian view of evolution and inheritance , obviously ...
Ah, no. Epigenetics isn't inheritance of acquired characteristics in the Lamarkian sense. Epigenetics is about environmental influences (typically stressors) affecting the physiology of an individual and causing suppression of certain genes via methylation; this gene suppression is potentially heritable. So the only acquired characteristic is the methylation of certain genes.
[/quote]

Ok, i am no expert in biology or genetics , but, how do you explain the inheritance of acquired traits or characteristics then , in the Lamarckian and Darwinian sense , that gets rejected by the materialist neo-Darwinians ?
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #886 on: 23/11/2013 20:02:18 »
What makes genes get "imprinted " by acquired characteristics or by acquired enviromental traits ,such as the implications of famine , holocaust , war traumas ....such as tragic events ...as to behave as if they "hold " some sort of a "memory " of past events ...they pass on to the next generations, and beyond ? How does that happen ? just via physics and chemistry ? How ?
Yes, epigenetics is biochemistry. Read all about it Here: Epigenetics
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #887 on: 23/11/2013 20:03:14 »
Quote
Science must start looking for non-physical forms of causation, or for non-physical or mental phenomena , that are still unknown to science ,  that might or must be underlying the laws of physics themselves , by rejecting reductionist materialism .

Then, and only then, will science or biology , in this case , be able to explain epigenetics , morphogenesis , birds' homing

You must have missed my posts on ...

morphogenesis , see ... http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=49531.msg424665#msg424665

and

birds homing , see ...  http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=49531.msg424182#msg424182

There were many mechanistic attempts to try to explain birds' homing via the position of the sun , but even at night , birds could get home, or via magnetism  by attaching magnets to those birds , via smell  , via the so-called biological clock ....none was proven to be "true " .
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #888 on: 23/11/2013 20:04:09 »
Ok, i am no expert in biology or genetics , but, how do you explain the inheritance of acquired traits or characteristics then , in the Lamarckian and Darwinian sense , that gets rejected by the materialist neo-Darwinians ?
I'm not aware of any inheritance of acquired traits or characteristics, in the Lamarckian sense. Have you got an example?
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #889 on: 23/11/2013 20:05:31 »
What makes genes get "imprinted " by acquired characteristics or by acquired enviromental traits ,such as the implications of famine , holocaust , war traumas ....such as tragic events ...as to behave as if they "hold " some sort of a "memory " of past events ...they pass on to the next generations, and beyond ? How does that happen ? just via physics and chemistry ? How ?
Yes, epigenetics is biochemistry. Read all about it Here: Epigenetics
[/quote]

Answer my question .
How do those acquired traits , due to famine, war traumas , holocaust, tragic events ...get passed on to the next generations, and beyond ?
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #890 on: 23/11/2013 20:09:59 »
Ok, i am no expert in biology or genetics , but, how do you explain the inheritance of acquired traits or characteristics then , in the Lamarckian and Darwinian sense , that gets rejected by the materialist neo-Darwinians ?
I'm not aware of any inheritance of acquired traits or characteristics, in the Lamarckian sense. Have you got an example?
[/quote]


See the following scientific "heresy " on the subject : enlightening study :


Tell me then how do you explain just that , that which was revealed in the video above , when you will finish watching it then .
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #891 on: 23/11/2013 20:21:19 »

When science thus will realise and acknowledge the fact that reality as a whole is not just physical or material , including evolution, the mind or consciousness , and the rest , including matter itself (see modern physics regarding the latter )



It's really a shame that you don't share some of your ideas about chaos theory, observers, causality etc. on the physics forum. They don't know what they are missing.
[/quote]


Do you exclude a-priori any non-physical forms of causation ? Since reality is not just material or physical , do you ?
Do you deny the fact that the mind of the observer does affect the observed .?
And how can the "physical " mind "that's " in the brain , the mental "that's just physics and chemistry"  thus , be able to tell us anything reliable about physics and chemistry = circular "reasoning " : the observed  does imply  the mental of the observer that's observing it , does it not ?
I did never pretend to be an expert on chaos theory, not even remotely close .
Nobody knows "everything " : instead of trying to play the silly wise girl, why don't you enlighten us about how physics and chemistry alone can explain "everything = nothing " then,while missing the mental side of reality , genius .
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #892 on: 23/11/2013 20:24:33 »
There were many mechanistic attempts to try to explain birds' homing via the position of the sun , but even at night , birds could get home, or via magnetism  by attaching magnets to those birds , via smell  , via the so-called biological clock ....none was proven to be "true " .
As one might expect, they use a variety of navigation cues; landmark recognition, magnetic field sensing, starfield and sun navigation, olfactory cues, etc. See All About Birds: Navigation. Not every homing or migration mechanism is fully explained, but the majority of those examined have been explained, and there's good reason to be confident that the others will have physical explanations.

Experience says unexplained doesn't mean inexplicable. You can always argue that the unexplained may be of 'immaterial' origin until it is explained, 'the immaterial of the gaps'; this seems a rather pointless semantic exercise. But is this is what rocks your boat, go for it. Oh, you did already...
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #893 on: 23/11/2013 20:33:08 »
See the following scientific "heresy " on the subject : enlightening study :


Tell me then how do you explain just that , that which was revealed in the video above , when you will finish watching it then .
What do you think is heretical about it?

What about it do you think contradicts what I already described? It may be a little dated, but it's a reasonable summary of epigenetics.

It isn't Lamarkism.
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #894 on: 23/11/2013 20:37:17 »
Quote
There were many mechanistic attempts to try to explain birds' homing via the position of the sun , but even at night , birds could get home, or via magnetism  by attaching magnets to those birds , via smell  , via the so-called biological clock ....none was proven to be "true " .
As one might expect, they use a variety of navigation cues; landmark recognition, magnetic field sensing, starfield and sun navigation, olfactory cues, etc. See All About Birds: Navigation. Not every homing or migration mechanism is fully explained, but the majority of those examined have been explained, and there's good reason to be confident that the others will have physical explanations.

Experience says unexplained doesn't mean inexplicable. You can always argue that the unexplained may be of 'immaterial' origin until it is explained, 'the immaterial of the gaps'; this seems a rather pointless semantic exercise. But is this is what rocks your boat, go for it. Oh, you did already...

No, they were not explained those ways : all attempts to explain birds ' homing physically failed so far ;as Sheldrake said :
and they will not be explained physically , not fully physically at least , not because we can't explain that now , and hence we will be able to explain them tomorrow , but simply because physics and chemistry alone are just a single part of the whole pic = that's a fact , no "immaterial of the gaps " : materialism is the one in fact that 's not only a kind of a promissory messianism ,in the sense that materialist science will be able to explain "everything =nothing " in the future ,just in terms of physics and chemistry thus,  but materialism is also the one using its "materialism of the gaps " by trying to explain consciousness ,for example,not to mention evolution, life and the rest  , just in terms of physics and chemistry , simply because materialism cannot account for  consciousness or the mental that's irreducible to the physical .
 

Offline cheryl j

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #895 on: 23/11/2013 20:37:50 »


Answer my question .
How do those acquired traits , due to famine, war traumas , holocaust, tragic events ...get passed on to the next generations, and beyond ?

Because  those extreme and long lasting events have physiological effects on the human body, effects like lack of nutrition, exposure to the elements, injury and inflammation, chronic exposure to stress hormones like cortisol. It doesn't mean a memory of the events of WWII become encoded in the genes.
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #896 on: 23/11/2013 20:41:59 »
Quote
See the following scientific "heresy " on the subject : enlightening study :


Tell me then how do you explain just that , that which was revealed in the video above , when you will finish watching it then .
What do you think is heretical about it?

What about it do you think contradicts what I already described? It may be a little dated, but it's a reasonable summary of epigenetics.

It isn't Lamarkism.

The findings in that video are  against the materialist mechanistic orthodox neo-Darwinian  "scientific world view " , i guess,   , that's why they are scientific "heresy " .
Watch the video then .
Later , alligator ,thanks, gotta go.Bye.
 

Offline RD

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #897 on: 23/11/2013 20:43:13 »
There were many mechanistic attempts to try to explain birds' homing via the position of the sun , but even at night , birds could get home, or via magnetism  by attaching magnets to those birds , via smell  , via the so-called biological clock ....none was proven to be "true " .

That birds can sense magnetic field has been proven ...
Quote from: ks.uiuc.edu
Although conjecture in the late nineteenth century held that birds could use the earth's magnetic field, it was only in the 1960s that scientists first demonstrated this experimentally.
http://www.ks.uiuc.edu/History/magnetoreception/

If you followed the Cornell University link I gave you can read about the experiments ...

Quote from: cornell.edu
The Magnetic Compass
Another German team did research with the European Robin in the early 1960s. In their tests, robins in a migratory mood were placed in covered cages to eliminate sun, star and other light clues. Despite the lack of visual clues, the robins were observed hopping in the correct migratory direction.

As an additional refinement to the test, a Helmholtz coil was placed around the covered cages. The coil allowed the researchers to shift the direction of the earth's magnetic field. When the direction of the magnetic field was changed, the robins changed their hopping direction.]The Magnetic Compass
Another German team did research with the European Robin in the early 1960s. In their tests, robins in a migratory mood were placed in covered cages to eliminate sun, star and other light clues. Despite the lack of visual clues, the robins were observed hopping in the correct migratory direction.

As an additional refinement to the test, a Helmholtz coil was placed around the covered cages. The coil allowed the researchers to shift the direction of the earth's magnetic field. When the direction of the magnetic field was changed, the robins changed their hopping direction.
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/allaboutbirds/studying/migration/navigation

So that birds cans sense magnetism proven in 1960s , and Alan Turing's paper on "Chemical Basis of Morphogenesis" published in 1952. Whoever is advising you that these phenomena are inexplicable by science is half a century out-of-date, (and can't do a google-search).
« Last Edit: 23/11/2013 20:53:43 by RD »
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #898 on: 23/11/2013 20:47:16 »
Quote


Answer my question .
How do those acquired traits , due to famine, war traumas , holocaust, tragic events ...get passed on to the next generations, and beyond ?

Because  those extreme and long lasting events have physiological effects on the human body, effects like lack of nutrition, exposure to the elements, injury and inflammation, chronic exposure to stress hormones like cortisol. It doesn't mean a memory of the events of WWII become encoded in the genes.

What about the much more  important  implications of all that : the psychological mental implications , genius ?
Gotta go, ciao ,think about that : the psychological or mental that are irreducible to the physical : how did those mental and psychological environmental implications and traits get passed on to the next generations and beyond then ?

In short :

Is heredity exclusively material  genetical ?
Hint : no.
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #899 on: 23/11/2013 20:59:32 »
... physics and chemistry alone are just a single part of the whole pic = that's a fact , no "immaterial of the gaps " : materialism is the one in fact that 's not only a kind of a promissory messianism ,in the sense that materialist science will be able to explain "everything =nothing " in the future ,just in terms of physics and chemistry thus,  but materialism is also the one using its "materialism of the gaps " by trying to explain consciousness ,for example,not to mention evolution, life and the rest  , just in terms of physics and chemistry , simply because materialism cannot account for  consciousness or the mental that's irreducible to the physical .
Yawn...
 

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Re: What, on Earth, is The Human Consciousness?
« Reply #899 on: 23/11/2013 20:59:32 »

 

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