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Author Topic: thrust does not work in space  (Read 58384 times)

Offline Reality207

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #150 on: 30/08/2014 13:32:19 »
I changed my mind Alan, and it seems you did too? [:-'(].
Patents become public and as there are companies that monitor the patent office with the intent of Circumnavigating patents, so as to steal the invention, I'm not willing to chance that.
Furthere there are too many nations that do not acknowledge U.S. or Internations patents.


After what I perceive as a fair and reasonable investigation into rocket propulsion in space; with what would seem to be top rocket scientist, engineers and physicists in the industry; and after having read the related pages from a number One best selling book on the subject and having invalidated all the attempts to defendable and/or explain the actual mechanics of how rockets thrust in space, I have no choice but to conclude that the irrational, that should seems inconceivable, is invariably the truth.
There is, at this time, no valid evidence, presented to me, that rockets work in space.

I am still willing to hear any sound, mechanical, explanation of how they work. And admit if I am wrong. 
I am not willing to listen to the invalid applications and analogies of Newtons Laws of Motions.  As I am tired of explaining that One Can Not Push Against Something That Doesn’t Exist.  "Realities Law."


Is it really so unconceivable that this could be a hoax!
Let me be clear on this, I do NOT fault the scientists that design these rockets, the people that assemble them, or the people that serve in any way.  How do any of them truly know what happens after it launches and leaves our sight?

We are a nation full of hoaxies, for example; oil companies profit HUNDREDS OF  BILLIONS of dollars a quarter EACH !!!!!! while our parents, friends, our sick and elderly who raised us, who built our schools, our homes and our nation, have to choose, in their age and time of need, rather to buy oil, food or medicine they need to stay alive.  SHAME ON ALL OF US, ME INCLUDED. And I am deeply ashamed.
To me; this is not just one example of how we as a nation allow these hoaxes, but an example of the sicknesses that we all share, not just the immoral, sociopathic, greed driven maniac owners/boards of the oil companies, but us, as we stand by idly and ignore it or worse we buy stock in them laughing it off saying, “if you can’t beat them join them”.

 :-\



 

Offline PmbPhy

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #151 on: 30/08/2014 15:06:12 »
Quote from: Reality207
..and having invalidated all the attempts to defendable and/or explain the actual mechanics of how rockets thrust in space, ..
You've never done any such thing. You've only deluded yourself into believing what you chose to believe from the start. We've proven it to you time and time again. I gave you the proof from Taylor's text and you didn't understand it. All one needs to understand is Newton's third law which is easily demonstrated. Look it up on the internet.

I've constantly asked you questions which you've refused to answer, i.e. how did they put satellites in geosynchronous orbit? How did they put the GPS  satellites in orbit? How did astronauts get to the moon in while there place corner reflectors on the surface http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corner_reflector. What is it you thought you were watching from all the television signals coming from the space shuttle in the early years? How did Google get satellite images of Area 51, etc, etc, etc,
 

Offline Ethos_

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #152 on: 30/08/2014 15:44:03 »

There is, at this time, no valid evidence, presented to me, that rockets work in space.

Something tells me that if we were to place you in a rocket and send you to the moon, you'd return to earth still convinced that rockets don't work in space. Like you've previously said, "hopeless"..............................
« Last Edit: 31/08/2014 00:35:13 by Ethos_ »
 

Offline PmbPhy

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #153 on: 30/08/2014 15:57:00 »

There is, at this time, no valid evidence, presented to me, that rockets work in space.

Something tells me that if we were place you in a rocket and send you to the moon, you'd return to earth still convinced that rockets don't work in space. Like you've previously said, "hopeless"..............................
You've hit the nail right smack on the head. We'd be accused of drugging him or something.
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #154 on: 30/08/2014 17:18:39 »
I changed my mind Alan, and it seems you did too? [:-'(].
Patents become public and as there are companies that monitor the patent office with the intent of Circumnavigating patents, so as to steal the invention, I'm not willing to chance that.
Furthere there are too many nations that do not acknowledge U.S. or Internations patents.

Standard "mad inventor" response, I'm afraid. The problem is that if you don't have patent cover, you will accuse me of leaking your designs to your competitors.


Quote
There is, at this time, no valid evidence, presented to me, that rockets work in space.

Have you noticed how many people get their TV service from a parabolic dish pointing upwards? Have you noticed how, as you travel towards the equator, these dishes point more vertically? Are we all suffering from mass hypnosis, or is there something up there sending TV signals to earth? If so, how did it get there?

OK, let's suppose that geosynchronous satellites are launched ballistically (i.e. from a bigger gun than anyone has ever made, but in secret, and from several countries, and the pathetic little UHF repeaters you have seen are just a joke - the real ones can withstand a 1000 g launch).  But you do seem to have accepted that some humans and other bits of stuff have been launched by this mysterious nonrocket. And you may believe that some of them (indeed most of the humans) have been recovered from orbit. Now how did they do that? A long piece of string attached to the International Space Station? Or just maybe some kind of motor that works when there is "nothing to push against". 

Quote
Let me be clear on this, I do NOT fault the scientists that design these rockets, the people that assemble them, or the people that serve in any way.  How do any of them truly know what happens after it launches and leaves our sight?

Money talks. If I had bought a zillion-dollar satellite and it just disappeared over the  hill when t he rocket fired, I wouldn't commission another one. But many very clever investors and generals have comissioned many satellites for all sorts of purposes, and seem quite satisfied to keep spending money on rocket launchers. 

Or perhaps you might be interested in a personal point of view? I fly out of sight of anyone, several times a week. But I keep in touch with mere mortals by radio, and they watch me with radar, so we all know exactly where I (and several others) am. Curiously, I find that my GPS system, which can only receive signals from above, tells me pretty much the same thing as my maps, calculations and radar traces, so I'm inclined to believe that there are transmitters way up in space, put there either by magic or rockets.  I can't think of any reason why the laws of electromagnetic wave propagation which apply to my piston-engined aeroplane shouldn't apply to my astronaut friends' Soyuz rocket. Perhaps you can?
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #155 on: 09/09/2014 17:19:24 »
I have a serious question
I went to the space musium and looked at the lander, and the rover, where did they put the rover to carry it up there?  How did they attach it?  no one at the musium could answer that question, will you?
They folded it up and put it in a space on the side of the lander.

Google is your friend.

The NASA web site has full details and schematics.
 

Offline PmbPhy

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #156 on: 09/09/2014 21:20:40 »
I have a serious question
I went to the space musium and looked at the lander, and the rover, where did they put the rover to carry it up there?  How did they attach it?  no one at the musium could answer that question, will you?
They folded it up and put it in a space on the side of the lander.

Google is your friend.

The NASA web site has full details and schematics.

See also

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/apollo_lrv.html
http://historicspacecraft.com/Lunar_Module.html
http://www.collectspace.com/ubb/Forum29/HTML/000731.html
http://www.armaghplanet.com/blog/nasas-lunar-rover-everything-you-need-to-know.html
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #157 on: 10/09/2014 10:20:02 »
See also

http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/apollo_lrv.html
http://historicspacecraft.com/Lunar_Module.html
http://www.collectspace.com/ubb/Forum29/HTML/000731.html
http://www.armaghplanet.com/blog/nasas-lunar-rover-everything-you-need-to-know.html
It no longer surprises me that we get treated like front-ends for Google. The most sophisticated search engines ever developed have put almost all knowledge at our fingertips, but some people still want someone else to do the work for them...
 

Offline PmbPhy

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #158 on: 10/09/2014 18:14:16 »
Quote from: dlorde
It no longer surprises me that we get treated like front-ends for Google. The most sophisticated search engines ever developed have put almost all knowledge at our fingertips, but some people still want someone else to do the work for them...
True. Back to the endless proofs that we've give him

http://www.nasa.gov/audience/foreducators/rocketry/home/what-is-a-rocket-k4.html#.VBBJOvl_vK8

http://www.thescienceforum.com/physics/46137-how-does-rocket-engine-make-ship-go-forward.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_engine
 

Offline Ethos_

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #159 on: 20/01/2015 14:54:34 »
Hello.

I have read this entire thread and joined this board specifically to revive this topic.

In summary/prelude, I want to say I agree 100% with what Truthseeker67 has been arguing.


All that proves is; That neither Truthseeker67 nor yourself understands physical science enough to grasp Action and Reaction. And if you don't like the answers gathered at this forum, try searching out your disagreements on Wikipedia. Then, if you don't like those answers, start your own forum..................Enough said!
 

Offline PmbPhy

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #160 on: 20/01/2015 16:48:11 »
Quote from: SteinUntStein
Hello.

I have read this entire thread and joined this board specifically to revive this topic.
You're claiming to have carefully read all 160 replies?

Quote from: SteinUntStein
In summary/prelude, I want to say I agree 100% with what Truthseeker67 has been arguing.
Then you haven't read what the arguments presented to him carefully enough. We explained to him the fact that thrust needs to atmosphere to work in and provided multiple examples. We explained all of this more than adequately and in detail. He was simply unable to understand what he read. We explained to him that rockets work on the principle of Newton's third law, which he essentially claims is wrong, even though there is more than ample experimental evidence to the contrary.

The example I myself gave to him is the fact that in order for the space shuttle to achieve orbit the thrust of the rocket's engine must work in the absence of an atmosphere. Otherwise it wouldn't work. When the space shuttle wants to return to earth it must ignite the engines so that the thrust will slow it down enough to enter the earth's atmosphere.
« Last Edit: 30/01/2015 11:58:48 by CliffordK »
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #161 on: 21/01/2015 00:36:34 »
In summary/prelude, I want to say I agree 100% with what Truthseeker67 has been arguing.

Excellent! Perhaps you will enlighten us, then, as to where satellite TV and GPS signals come from, how some of my friends got into and out of various orbiting machines (some of which you can still see in the night sky), and why communications companies and the military continue to spend zillions of dollars on things that don't work.

Or just start by explaining where Newton, Whittle, von Braun et al went wrong. 

Quote
Theoretical science is the new religion. Its disbelievers, heretics.

Wrong. Heresy is the essence of science.
 

Offline PmbPhy

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #162 on: 21/01/2015 16:15:35 »
In summary/prelude, I want to say I agree 100% with what Truthseeker67 has been arguing.

Excellent! Perhaps you will enlighten us, then, as to where satellite TV and GPS signals come from, how some of my friends got into and out of various orbiting machines (some of which you can still see in the night sky), and why communications companies and the military continue to spend zillions of dollars on things that don't work.

Or just start by explaining where Newton, Whittle, von Braun et al went wrong. 

Quote
Theoretical science is the new religion. Its disbelievers, heretics.

Wrong. Heresy is the essence of science.
I couldn't have said it better myself! :)
 

Offline SteinUntStein

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #163 on: 22/01/2015 21:37:14 »
I'm not here to make enemies. I am trying to be upfront. I have been greeted with anything but cordiality.
It is confirmation about the way Truthseeker seemed to me to be treated.
The fact that some of you want to know about me rather than discuss the issues is indicative of the deeper problem.

As I say, I intend to insult no one personally, but such treatment as was given Truthseeker is unacceptable in any forum.
This is my issue. Throughout your debates with Truthseeker very few responses answered his very good questions and points.
No, most responses took the form of "because we say so and if you don't believe it you are stupid."

I understand some impatience, and I understand having to deliver a little scolding once in a while. But man, I say he was bullied.

For the record, I have yet to see any proof (I have heard some of the science) that thrust works in space, that is, in an alleged vacuum, and none here as convinced me.

I am NOT an expert in this field although I can drop names with the best of them and make you think so. But seems to me action=reaction is not applicable in space, and several Earth-based experiments in a vacuum seem to confirm this.

It's not really, for me, whether he is or I am right or wrong on this issue. Not primarily. First it is this authoritarian attitude with which he is answered.

Only confirms to me that people guided by today's theoretical science are worshiping a religion. Same commitment, same lack of proofs for fundamental premises, same excommunication recommended for anyone who does not believe, same smug surety in what most of them have never witnessed, in this case, thrust in outer space vacuum.

Science, by my understanding, is both practical and theoretical. Practical science gives us things we can use, pragmatic tools for living, technological advancement. Theory on its own can be held by any lunatic and justified as well as much of today's scientific theory. Normally, such nonsense would be laughable. However,  given the status of science today, i.e. god-like reverence, even nonsense is considered good because it calls itself science.

Science is the new religion. Zealots precide.
 

Offline jeffreyH

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #164 on: 23/01/2015 00:06:00 »
I was actually trying to start a conversation. I don't care whether you are qualified or not. There are a lot of amateur physicists and mathematicians who work quite hard at picking things up. Do me the courtesy of not assuming my motives. Unless you have clairvoyance? Not much point in being friendly with you is there?
 

Offline chiralSPO

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #165 on: 23/01/2015 19:23:14 »
Youtube is also a friend here:
Video of propeller and rocket operating in evacuated jar:

If you don't trust the vid, maybe go visit the museum?

Some footage from the side of a rocket launching into space:


Also here is footage of our mission to the comet Temple 1.

Deep Impact's view approaching Temple 1

View of Deep Impact hitting Temple 1

Please don't waste our time claiming this footage is faked.
 

Offline SteinUntStein

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #166 on: 24/01/2015 05:47:17 »
Youtube is also a friend here:
Video of propeller and rocket operating in evacuated jar:

If you don't trust the vid, maybe go visit the museum?

Some footage from the side of a rocket launching into space:


Also here is footage of our mission to the comet Temple 1.

Deep Impact's view approaching Temple 1

View of Deep Impact hitting Temple 1

Please don't waste our time claiming this footage is faked.

There is no such thing as a vacuum, you must know that, unless you mean the thing used to clean carpet...So, no "vacuated" jar.
Which museum and what will I be shown there?
The footage is real. However it does not depict what it says it does.
Temple 1 is a model like the rest.
What makes you so sure the film is authentic?
This is my question.
I can make that video in 20 minutes in my basement.
 

Offline SteinUntStein

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #167 on: 24/01/2015 05:52:13 »
Like YouTube, you say?
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #168 on: 24/01/2015 09:05:45 »
Skepticism isn't always healthy, and when it is associated with Kruger-Dunning syndrome, it can be very damaging to the patient. Fortunately neither condition is contagious, so the rest of us can walk away unscathed.

However, for those interested in pursuing infamous scientific conspiracies, consider that nobody is sure when Christopher Columbus was born. Now a brilliant navigator would surely be punctilious about such matters, so either (a) he wasn't a brilliant navigator, or (b) he didn't exist. If (a) then we have no reason to believe that he actually went where he said, and if (b) then the entire story is a fabrication. Therefore on all the available evidence, the world is flat. This is entirely consistent with the fact that rockets don't work in space, as all the so-called orbital images are faked to cover up this important fact. It also explains why Americans speak English like Martians: America doesn't exist - they really are Martians, who travel here through wormholes on invisible space buses.

Excuse me, there are two men at the door, wearing white coats. Must go.   
« Last Edit: 24/01/2015 09:21:59 by alancalverd »
 

Offline PmbPhy

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #169 on: 24/01/2015 14:00:35 »
Quote from: SteinUntStein
There is no such thing as a vacuum, you must know that, unless you mean the thing used to clean carpet...So, no "vacuated" jar.
You sure have a lot you learn, especially what a vacuum is. The claim in this thread is that thrust can't work in a vacuum because there is no matter to "push" against (or some other nonsense about weight). There is such a thing as a vacuum. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum

But you need to read that entire page to understand exactly what physicists mean by a vacuum. E.g.
Quote
The quality of a partial vacuum refers to how closely it approaches a perfect vacuum. Other things equal, lower gas pressure means higher-quality vacuum. For example, a typical vacuum cleaner produces enough suction to reduce air pressure by around 20%.[3] Much higher-quality vacuums are possible. Ultra-high vacuum chambers, common in chemistry, physics, and engineering, operate below one trillionth (10−12) of atmospheric pressure (100 nPa), and can reach around 100 particles/cm3.[4] Outer space is an even higher-quality vacuum, with the equivalent of just a few hydrogen atoms per cubic meter on average.[5] According to modern understanding, even if all matter could be removed from a volume, it would still not be "empty" due to vacuum fluctuations, dark energy, transiting gamma- and cosmic rays, neutrinos, along with other phenomena in quantum physics. In modern particle physics, the vacuum state is considered as the ground state of matter.

Quote from: SteinUntStein
Which museum and what will I be shown there?
All, museums are different so it depends on the particular museum. In the museum of science in Boston they have a tube with a hammer and a feather in it. In one instance they fill the tube with air and drop the items and they fall at very different rates. Then they evacute the tube and then they fall at the same rate. But I don't reacall seeing a demonstration there about a rocket operating in space. It doesn't matter because nobody who knows physics would question it because there's overwhelming evidence of it being the case.

Quote from: SteinUntStein
I can make that video in 20 minutes in my basement.
Okay. Let's see you do it. Then again, if you can build things in your basement then build a chamber in which you can create a vacuum and place an estes rocket engine in it with a method to ignite the engine remotely, i.e. outside the chamber and a way to measure the thrust. Have a transparent wall to watch what happens. When there is a vacuum present ignite the engine and you'll see that it will have thrust. Measure it. Do it several times with different pressures in it and you'll find that the amount of thrust does not approach zero as the vacuum approaches zero indicating that pressure is not a factor of the cause of the thrust.
« Last Edit: 24/01/2015 14:11:12 by PmbPhy »
 

Offline SteinUntStein

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #170 on: 24/01/2015 14:59:27 »
Quote
There is no such thing as a vacuum, you must know that, unless you mean the thing used to clean carpet...So, no "vacuated" jar.
Quote
You sure have a lot you learn...

Manifestly.
I am glad to hear you have completed the job [blech]

Quote from: SteinUntStein
Which museum and what will I be shown there?
Quote
All, museums are different so it depends on the particular museum.
Ya don't say?

Really, you quote me Wikipedia to prove the existence of the non-existent vacuum?
By my read (you just quoted) it is an APPROXIMATION. You can get close but you can't get it, and the closer you get the better vacuum...
Restore the aether and you solve the problem. Let's say "PURE VACUUM" is mythology, you know, like the Big Bang, and black holes, and antimatter, and...

As for the video, what will you pay me? If it's convincing? Otherwise, you're not very photographically-inclined if you think it CANNOT be made, sorry.

What you consider overwhelming evidence I consider overwhelming parrotry.
 

Offline PmbPhy

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #171 on: 24/01/2015 15:05:30 »
The main problem with this thread is that the OP has no idea of how thrust works. His description was nothing but gibberish and shows no understanding of Newton's third law since the OP simply has no grasp of it, i.e.
Quote from: truthseeker67
In space there is no third law and if i believed there was i wouldn't of started this topic.
which is clearly untrue. If a statement is a law of physics then it can't depend on where in space its true. Otherewise it wouldn't be a law.

Quote from: truthseeker67
Take a good long look at just how the OP thinks thrust works, i.e.
the reason why thrust cant work is simple
thrust equals = weight in order to have weight we need gravity.
see its like this in space everything weighs nothing so i would say a rocket weighs 0
or put like this rocket =0
                       thrust=0 because without gravity there is no weight behind the thrust
to cause a reaction so no movement would take place.
Clearly the OP is confusing thrust with the weight of an object. I already explained his mistake but since he doesn't understand physics he was unable to understand the explanation.

His error is this: let us first definne thrust

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrust
Quote
Thrust is a reaction force described quantitatively by Newton's second and third laws. When a system expels or accelerates mass in one direction, the accelerated mass will cause a force of equal magnitude but opposite direction on that system.[1] The force applied on a surface in a direction perpendicular or normal to the surface is called thrust. Force, and thus thrust, is measured in the International System of Units (SI) as the newton (symbol: N), and represents the amount needed to accelerate 1 kilogram of mass at the rate of 1 metre per second squared.

In mechanical engineering, force orthogonal to the main load (such as in parallel helical gears) is referred to as thrust.
Essentially Wiki is saying that thrust is a force (described by Newton's 3rd law). The units of thrust is the Newton. Weight essentially has nothing to do with the definition of thrust. The only thing it has in common is that they have the same units. The thrust of a rocket is the force on the rocket which accelerates it through space. The weight of an object is the gravitational force on an object. The OP couldn't understand this so after we explaine his error to him he started insulting us.
 

Offline chiralSPO

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #172 on: 24/01/2015 15:57:38 »
I think most of the posts on this thread have become so negative in response to the "style of debate" employed by those arguing that thrust cannot work in space. Science is based in evidence--Since we cannot actually show you a rocket working in space without putting you there yourself (though maybe we can crowd-fund to send one of you into orbit...), and any footage we offer is accused of being faked, and any examples of any space missions lead to talk of vast international conspiracies, what evidence are we left with to discuss? Even basic textbook science is "open to debate" because misunderstanding and/or mistrust of well-established theory.

Perhaps one of you would like to put forth some evidence, beyond thought experiment, that rockets don't work in space?

I would like to mention, however, that skepticism is healthy for scientific maintenance and progress. It is good to have people constantly question even those things that we all take for granted. That said, those who question well-established theory are more often wrong than right, and either way, make few friends. Not everyone who questions dogma is a Galileo. I thank you for performing this necessary and usually thankless part of scientific discourse. But in this instance, you're still wrong.
 

Offline SteinUntStein

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #173 on: 24/01/2015 16:23:39 »
Thanks for this real post.

The main problem with this thread is that the OP has no idea of how thrust works. His description was nothing but gibberish and shows no understanding of Newton's third law since the OP simply has no grasp of it, i.e.
Quote from: truthseeker67
In space there is no third law and if i believed there was i wouldn't of started this topic.
which is clearly untrue.

Some people say rules are meant to be broken, exceptions prove them, etc. Newton had no idea of the constituency of space, and nothing says his rules must apply there. Maybe we don't now either. Maybe Newton was wrong, and in fact most of his laws are inaccurate at some scale, or in some (frames). I know I said I agree 100% with Truthseeker, but I meant his overall message, not everything he said, so allow me clarify.
Quote
If a statement is a law of physics then it can't depend on where in space its true. Otherewise it wouldn't be a law.
That statement is incorrect on its face. Some alleged laws of physics do not hold up in all circumstances, locations, conditions, etc.
Quote
Quote from: truthseeker67
Take a good long look at just how the OP thinks thrust works, i.e.
the reason why thrust cant work is simple
thrust equals = weight in order to have weight we need gravity.
see its like this in space everything weighs nothing so i would say a rocket weighs 0
or put like this rocket =0
                       thrust=0 because without gravity there is no weight behind the thrust
to cause a reaction so no movement would take place.
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Clearly the OP is confusing thrust with the weight of an object. I already explained his mistake but since he doesn't understand physics he was unable to understand the explanation.

I understand what he means and also why you are frustrated. The problem is your understandings of "weight" vis-a-vis mass, but I think it was discussed already. Actually I think he has a pretty good basic understanding of physics, better than me certainly, it is not my field, but I try :)
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His error is this: let us first definne thrust

newbielink:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrust [nonactive]
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Please do better than Wikipedia whenever possible. They are known to be repressive of some information and on the bandwagon on others. But myself I know what thrust is, and how it works, basic physics, not in space, or no vacuum.

A rocket works, for us laymen, by pushing off something. A terrestrial-launched rocket goes nowhere until thrust is given, pushing the rocket off the pad because the expelled air and heat push off the ground. Or the submarine. When launched from a plane, the rocket is dropped from under the wing, and shortly thereafter its thrust begins and the rocket goes forward, this time because it is pushing on air. Were you to take a Saturn-type setup and drop it from, oh, half a mile up, point upwards, somehow, and let it drop, then fire the thrusters, whether or not you make it up, and so escape that gravitational pull, would be a risky proposition. This is just 1/2 a mile, in Earth atmopshere.
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In mechanical engineering, force orthogonal to the main load (such as in parallel helical gears) is referred to as thrust.

No clue there buddy but sounds like more BS retroactive formulae (like diagramming sentences, or speaking in prose).
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Essentially Wiki is saying that thrust is a force (described by Newton's 3rd law). The units of thrust is the Newton. Weight essentially has nothing to do with the definition of thrust.
First two yes. The third does not follow, logically.
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The only thing it has in common is that they have the same units.
So they do have something to do with each other.
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The thrust of a rocket is the force on the rocket which accelerates it through space. The weight of an object is the gravitational force on an object.
The rocket has weight, the thrust also has weight relative its surroundings otherwise how can it be thrust? The force is what is established by the the thrust, read it right.
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The OP couldn't understand this so after we explaine his error to him he started insulting us.
Can you direct me to the insult post, I must have missed it. And I don't think he didn't understand it, I think he didn't believe it, or sought to explain it a different way.
 

Offline SteinUntStein

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #174 on: 24/01/2015 16:30:10 »
I think most of the posts on this thread have become so negative in response to the "style of debate" employed by those arguing that thrust cannot work in space. Science is based in evidence--Since we cannot actually show you a rocket working in space without putting you there yourself (though maybe we can crowd-fund to send one of you into orbit...), and any footage we offer is accused of being faked, and any examples of any space missions lead to talk of vast international conspiracies, what evidence are we left with to discuss? Even basic textbook science is "open to debate" because misunderstanding and/or mistrust of well-established theory.

Perhaps one of you would like to put forth some evidence, beyond thought experiment, that rockets don't work in space?

I would like to mention, however, that skepticism is healthy for scientific maintenance and progress. It is good to have people constantly question even those things that we all take for granted. That said, those who question well-established theory are more often wrong than right, and either way, make few friends. Not everyone who questions dogma is a Galileo. I thank you for performing this necessary and usually thankless part of scientific discourse. But in this instance, you're still wrong.

I keep needing to leave but I like this post I want to say it is civil and for the most part true. Whether I am wrong or not is the issue, however. I understand and agree it is frustrating in the face of skepticism for something you believe to be true. Hence my questioning.

I make an analogy. There are many photos on the one hand, videos even, of alleged UFOs, and many photos of extraterrestrial objects allegedly taken by NASA from outer space. Seems to me the stack of such evidences would be just as high for both. Is this evidence good enough to conclude the equal validity of both? Jus a question, again, about your authority, how would I decide other than on case by case basis?
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #174 on: 24/01/2015 16:30:10 »

 

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