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Author Topic: thrust does not work in space  (Read 58693 times)

Offline Pmb

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #50 on: 15/09/2013 09:04:53 »
[quote author = dlorde]
The experiment is demonstrated every time a rocket fires in space - which happens often. Satellites, probes, space labs - they all do it.
[/quote]
« Last Edit: 17/09/2013 16:26:46 by Pmb »
 

lean bean

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #51 on: 15/09/2013 11:09:40 »
someone just show me an experiment of a rocket working in a vacuum never mind the theory lets just see the reality .
Why show you 'videos/films' on the web, when you can just say they are using trick photography.

To read a description of an experiment and the given theory of why it works the way it does, is down to the reader's understanding of physics.

All people can do on the web is to offer acknowledged expert sites on such matters.
Or you may find 'non acknowledged' experts that have a good understanding and can lead you in the right direction to answering things.
You can say Nasa is using tricks, but that must be based on your personal understanding of physics to say Nasa is using tricks. So it's down to words not just pictures. :)
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #52 on: 15/09/2013 14:03:45 »
Why do airliners fly so high? Because a reaction-powered machine works better when there's less air around? Or because Ryanair has money to burn on fuel that would be saved by flying lower? If elementary concepts of physics are beyond you, perhaps you understand the concept of profit?
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #53 on: 15/09/2013 14:46:47 »
The scary thing is that he seems to find it plausible that there's a multi-trillion dollar global conspiracy, that started many years before he was born, involving people working in schools, colleges, universities, research & engineering labs, the economic, financial, design, and manufacturing sectors of the aerospace industry, audiovisual fakery, media broadcasting, Earth sciences, remote sensing, weather prediction, satellite communications, planetary probes, SatNav, GPS, other stuff I've missed, etc...

Wait, that's nearly everything, right? Wow, this thing is bigger than religion... and all to fool people like him (i.e. those who can't do simple physics). But why? That's the real question to answer!

Alternatively, maybe he's a beginner's physics course short of an education. An introduction to critical thinking wouldn't go astray, either.
 

Offline Pmb

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #54 on: 15/09/2013 17:19:47 »
Quote from: dlorde
But why? That's the real question to answer!
Because he's not willing to learn. Didn't you notice that he refuses to answer any direct questions about his knowledge of physics?
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #55 on: 15/09/2013 20:42:16 »
Quote from: dlorde
But why? That's the real question to answer!
Because he's not willing to learn. Didn't you notice that he refuses to answer any direct questions about his knowledge of physics?
It's obvious he doesn't know (or pretends not to know) any physics; what I was asking him was why this vast global conspiracy is going on ;)

Which leads me to wonder whether the crossover point between conspiracy theory and plain paranoia is when the number of people involved in the conspiracy exceeds the number uninvolved it...
 

Offline Pmb

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #56 on: 15/09/2013 21:58:46 »
Quote from: dlorde
It's obvious he doesn't know (or pretends not to know) any physics; what I was asking him was why this vast global conspiracy is going on ;)
Yeah. I saw that. ;)  I think that mostly people like that are truely serious. They have this thing going on where they think they know more than everyone one else, including scientists, because they put some thought into it and came to different solutions and therefore the scientists must be wrong!! They refuse to learn physics because they assume it will corrupt their mind with nonsense. Ha ha ha!
 

truthseeker67

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #57 on: 15/09/2013 22:01:56 »
By the way buddies Airplanes use less fuel at high altitude than they use at low altitude, because the air is thinner at high altitudes and therefore produces less air resistance to slow the airplane down thought i would explain that using my useless physics, so airplanes are more efficient at higher altitudes.
 

truthseeker67

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #58 on: 15/09/2013 22:17:11 »
how can you believe NASA about anything.  when a flag blows in a breeze on the moon and so many other things that are simply not correct, too many inconsistencies for my liking and a Luna module that looks like an  activity scene made by primary school children and not to mention no blast crater from that all powerful rocket thrust,that didn't even leave dust on the feet of the lander how strange could that be.
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #59 on: 15/09/2013 22:19:30 »
By the way buddies Airplanes use less fuel at high altitude than they use at low altitude, because the air is thinner at high altitudes and therefore produces less air resistance to slow the airplane down thought i would explain that using my useless physics, so airplanes are more efficient at higher altitudes.
So does a jet aircraft become most efficient in space where there is no air resistance at all?

What about propeller driven planes? more efficient or less?

What do you think is the main difference between rocket engines and jet engines?
 

Offline Pmb

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #60 on: 15/09/2013 22:22:51 »
Quote from: truthseeker67
how can you believe NASA about anything.
We have no reason to believe they have anything to hide or anything to lie about. You're delusions and distrust with NASA are based on your ignorance of science. You, on the other hand, keep avoiding direct questions so we have every reason assume that you're hiding something. Plus many of us as scientists and know what we're doing while you on the other hand have no idea about science whatsoever.

And then there's the fact that Newton, Einstein, Maxwell, Galileo and Kepler were all around doing their thing long before NASA existed. Newton postulated his laws and demonstrated that they were true even before the USA was born.
« Last Edit: 15/09/2013 22:26:32 by Pmb »
 

Offline Pmb

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #61 on: 15/09/2013 22:24:02 »
By the way buddies Airplanes use less fuel at high altitude than they use at low altitude, because the air is thinner at high altitudes and therefore produces less air resistance to slow the airplane down thought i would explain that using my useless physics, so airplanes are more efficient at higher altitudes.
So does a jet aircraft become most efficient in space where there is no air resistance at all?

What about propeller driven planes? more efficient or less?

What do you think is the main difference between rocket engines and jet engines?
I'm begining to feel like a school kid by arguing with him since that's the way he argues, don't you a bit?
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #62 on: 15/09/2013 22:30:08 »
how can you believe NASA about anything.  when a flag blows in a breeze on the moon and so many other things that are simply not correct, too many inconsistencies for my liking and a Luna module that looks like an  activity scene made by primary school children and not to mention no blast crater from that all powerful rocket thrust,that didn't even leave dust on the feet of the lander how strange could that be.
You'll find the answers here.
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #63 on: 15/09/2013 22:32:47 »
I'm begining to feel like a school kid by arguing with him since that's the way he argues, don't you a bit?
It certainly feels like I'm talking to a school kid - one that's deliberately playing dumb.

He's got all the information he needs now; I suggest we leave him to it.
 

Offline Pmb

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #64 on: 15/09/2013 23:07:31 »
Quote from: dlorde
He's got all the information he needs now; I suggest we leave him to it.
One more. The article you linked to said "Did you think of an issue I didn't address? Send me an email and I will be sure to add it." so I did. Here is my response
Quote
We went to the Moon to at the height of the cold war so the Russians were keeping a close eye on those rocket launches. The radio transmissions from the Moon to Earth could not have been faked. They had to be coming from the moon. Had we tried then the Russians would have pointed out to everyone in the world that the transmissions were not comming from the moon.

He won't be able to explain that, that's for sure. And he won't even bother trying (since he never does).
« Last Edit: 15/09/2013 23:25:04 by Pmb »
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #65 on: 16/09/2013 00:16:27 »
By the way buddies Airplanes use less fuel at high altitude than they use at low altitude, because the air is thinner at high altitudes and therefore produces less air resistance to slow the airplane down thought i would explain that using my useless physics, so airplanes are more efficient at higher altitudes.

So presumably a rocket-powered aircraft, which doesn't need air to burn its fuel, would  became increasingly efficient as the air got thinner, until....oh bugger, this is leading towards common sense. Obviously all the world's airlines have got it wrong, or are being paid by NASA to fly at uneconomic altitudes in order to cover up the global conspiracy about space flight.

The interesting thing is that not only the USA but Russia, the EU, China, India, Japan, and Korea are all part of the same conspiracy. Why? Because they recognise that Isaac Newton was the Antichrist.   
 

Offline Pmb

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #66 on: 16/09/2013 01:56:31 »
By the way buddies Airplanes use less fuel at high altitude than they use at low altitude, because the air is thinner at high altitudes and therefore produces less air resistance to slow the airplane down thought i would explain that using my useless physics, so airplanes are more efficient at higher altitudes.

So presumably a rocket-powered aircraft, which doesn't need air to burn its fuel, would  became increasingly efficient as the air got thinner, until....oh bugger, this is leading towards common sense. Obviously all the world's airlines have got it wrong, or are being paid by NASA to fly at uneconomic altitudes in order to cover up the global conspiracy about space flight.

The interesting thing is that not only the USA but Russia, the EU, China, India, Japan, and Korea are all part of the same conspiracy. Why? Because they recognise that Isaac Newton was the Antichrist.   

alancalverd - I really don't think that he gets the thing about planes at higher altitude.
 

Offline Supercryptid

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #67 on: 16/09/2013 02:49:57 »
 

Offline Pmb

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #68 on: 16/09/2013 02:51:22 »
It turns out that truthseeker67 is really an economist who claims that his hobby is cosmology. His site is here http://www.eioba.com/niebieskieucho/articles

truthseeker67 M'man. I love the doo!  :)
 

Offline bizerl

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #69 on: 16/09/2013 07:15:53 »
Call me a sicko, but man I find these threads entertaining!
By the way buddies Airplanes use less fuel at high altitude than they use at low altitude, because the air is thinner at high altitudes and therefore produces less air resistance to slow the airplane down thought i would explain that using my useless physics, so airplanes are more efficient at higher altitudes.
If there's less air and therefore it is closer to being a vacuum, wouldn't the jets start to fail? After all, "thrust does not work in space". :)
I like the way that rockets need something to push against and therefore wont work in a vacuum, but when you push a large metal construction against something as solid and tangible as, oh, I don't know... air!, you can break the sound barrier several times over!
I guess, truthseeker, that if you admitted to the truth, you'd have to change your username.
 

Offline Pmb

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #70 on: 16/09/2013 07:40:59 »
Call me a sicko, but man I find these threads entertaining!
By the way buddies Airplanes use less fuel at high altitude than they use at low altitude, because the air is thinner at high altitudes and therefore produces less air resistance to slow the airplane down thought i would explain that using my useless physics, so airplanes are more efficient at higher altitudes.
If there's less air and therefore it is closer to being a vacuum, wouldn't the jets start to fail? After all, "thrust does not work in space". :)
I like the way that rockets need something to push against and therefore wont work in a vacuum, but when you push a large metal construction against something as solid and tangible as, oh, I don't know... air!, you can break the sound barrier several times over!
I guess, truthseeker, that if you admitted to the truth, you'd have to change your username.
I hope you're not on his side and believe that rocket's need air to push on? That's quite wrong. It makes no sense for the gases to know that they're going to push on air before they leave the combustion chamber and not reflect off of the interior walls and thus exchange the momentum of the gas with the momentum of the walls of the chamber? truthseeker67 is unable to grasp science or engineering, I hope you don't think the same way? It looks like you're joking but I wanted to make sure.

truthseeker67 - What are the odds that you're learn about how a rocket engine works and stop all this nonsense that all physics and physicists are wrong for some mysterious reason and learn how a rocket works. See http://exploration.grc.nasa.gov/education/rocket/TRCRocket/rocket_principles.html

After you fail to do that I have a question that you'll be unable to answer correctly - How does a gun work and why is there a kick produced by the gun when its fired?
« Last Edit: 16/09/2013 07:47:04 by Pmb »
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #71 on: 16/09/2013 11:27:03 »
It turns out that truthseeker67 is really an economist
a discipline with no wrong answers, only "incomplete data in an inherently unpredictable market - but you wouldn't want to live in a controlled market, would you?"
 
Quote
who claims that his hobby is cosmology.
A field in which there is no possibility of a controlled experiment.

So he can't admit to talking nonsense, because that would jeopardise his career, and he won't be convinced by evidence because that implies experimentation rather guesswork string theory!

 
« Last Edit: 16/09/2013 11:30:47 by alancalverd »
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #72 on: 16/09/2013 12:52:20 »
This page might be of some interest: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Moon_landing_hoax#Evidence_for_a_conspiracy
Thanks, that's a better one than the one I posted.
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #73 on: 16/09/2013 12:55:39 »
It turns out that truthseeker67 is really an economist who claims that his hobby is cosmology. His site is here http://www.eioba.com/niebieskieucho/articles
A graduate! here was I, thinking he was in his early teens...

Quote
truthseeker67 M'man. I love the doo!  :)
Er, yeah! :)
 

Offline bizerl

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Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #74 on: 16/09/2013 23:11:28 »
I hope you're not on his side and believe that rocket's need air to push on? That's quite wrong. It makes no sense for the gases to know that they're going to push on air before they leave the combustion chamber and not reflect off of the interior walls and thus exchange the momentum of the gas with the momentum of the walls of the chamber? truthseeker67 is unable to grasp science or engineering, I hope you don't think the same way? It looks like you're joking but I wanted to make sure.

Yes. Sorry Pete, I am joking. Also, whoever used the example of the cube with the missing side, i LOVE that example. It explained it beautifully.

I was reading back to the initial argument that thrust is based on "weight". It's a bit like me saying that "I reckon time is based on unicorns, and therefore I have just proved it doesn't exist - can YOU see any unicorns?"

It sounds like something out of a Douglas Adams novel where as soon as something enters weightlessness, it ceases to exist.
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: thrust does not work in space
« Reply #74 on: 16/09/2013 23:11:28 »

 

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