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Offline 4getmenot

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alcohol (why is it legal?)
« on: 21/07/2006 18:56:01 »
Here's an idea...what if alcohol was made to be illegal. I bet there would be less accidents and deaths and fights etc...It is funny how drinking and driving is such a huge part of the death rates, yet it is promoted for purchase. I think that the only reason it is legal is because the government makes way too much money off it to do anything about it, they have all those programs that cost a bundle, jail of course, and not to mention what dmv makes on a dui...the government sits there and say's.."drinking in public and drinlking and driving is illegal do not do it", yet they allow for it to be legal to promote the use of it KNOWING that people WILL do these things and some kill in the process.....I loked it up and the courts make the most off of alcohol related issues......SOOOOO my question is this...why not make it ilegal instead of just creating non working money making programs due to the USE of it?????(besides the fact that bootlegging would come into play)


k


 

Offline JimBob

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Re: alcohol (why is it legal?)
« Reply #1 on: 21/07/2006 19:19:44 »
It may be because in 2000 only .05 to 07 per cent of the population of the US were addicted to substance abuse. Even if 20 per cent of the people who drink become unmanageable, it is a small per cent of the population that does not drink responsably. I am one of those suspetable to being unable to hold anything I drink, so I choose not to drink. Other people do not do this.

The rather small percentage of people who dring to excess onece a year or more is probably the government is reluctant to do anything. It does NOT excuse the people who do drink to excess.





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another_someone

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Re: alcohol (why is it legal?)
« Reply #2 on: 21/07/2006 19:24:25 »
You are harking back to the days of prohibition in the 1930's, when all alcohol was sold through organised crime, just the way other illegal drugs continue to be today.

It is one of those constant questions about crime prevention, whether it is better just to make substances like heroin illegal (as it is), with the effect that it is driven into the hands of those people who are most comfortable working wholly outside the law; or is it better to keep it legal and try and manage the problem.

It is true that alcohol is a major source of accidents, but at least it does not fuel terrorism and organised crime the way that cocaine and heroin do – this is because it is too easy to get legally, so there is not enough money to make it worth the while for criminals and terrorists to make a business out of it.



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Offline neilep

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Re: alcohol (why is it legal?)
« Reply #3 on: 21/07/2006 19:52:03 »
If one was to criminalise alcohol then it would just open up a black market for it.

It is so ingrained in culture that I think making it illegal would make things much worse.

Imbibing alcohol has been a part of culture since the most ancient of civilisations.

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another_someone

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Re: alcohol (why is it legal?)
« Reply #4 on: 21/07/2006 20:00:23 »
quote:
Originally posted by JimBob

It may be because in 2000 only .05 to 07 per cent of the population of the US were addicted to substance abuse.



I'd be surprised if the percentage of the population addicted to nicotine alone does not exceed that.



George
 

Offline JimBob

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Re: alcohol (why is it legal?)
« Reply #5 on: 21/07/2006 20:33:54 »
F.Y.I.

Facts on alcohol addiction from the US National institute of Health. Didn't check about smoking but I am aware that nicotine is probably the most addictive substance the human body can ingest. Worse than opium, and all other hypnotics.  



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« Last Edit: 21/07/2006 20:36:44 by JimBob »
 

Offline 4getmenot

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Re: alcohol (why is it legal?)
« Reply #6 on: 21/07/2006 21:21:04 »
on topic of drugs...i have never heard of someone who smokes weed getting into accidents or starting fights or being boligerant to some1.....why is it illegal when it causes less public problems than alcohol....and even if it did create a black market for alcohol by making it illegal, wouldn;t it still be better than promoting a thing that causes so much damage?

k
 

another_someone

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Re: alcohol (why is it legal?)
« Reply #7 on: 21/07/2006 21:32:45 »
quote:
Originally posted by 4getmenot
on topic of drugs...i have never heard of someone who smokes weed getting into accidents or starting fights or being boligerant to some1.....why is it illegal when it causes less public problems than alcohol....and even if it did create a black market for alcohol by making it illegal, wouldn;t it still be better than promoting a thing that causes so much damage?



Cannabis is relatively tame, but does nonetheless impair judgement, and has recently been argued that long term cannabis can cause paranoia.

Amphetamines can very directly be associated with violence, far more directly so than alcohol.  In fact, one of the interesting things about alcohol is that while in America and Northern Europe is is widely associated with violence, in the Mediterranean countries, it almost never has.  No-one has properly answered why this difference – is it simply a cultural thing, or is it a genetic thing?

The biggest link between crime and drugs is with the need to find ways to fund an expensive habit.  This is more true of cocaine and heroine than with cannabis, and probably the largest single area of criminal activity (although whether this is actually criminal depends upon the context) is prostitution.  Then again, the biggest fuel for prostitution is probably poverty, more so even than narcotics.



George
 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: alcohol (why is it legal?)
« Reply #8 on: 22/07/2006 00:55:07 »
if someone invented the very first alcholic drink today it would be made illegal. but its too late now to ban it because most adults enjoy it and would be up in arms if it was banned and also because govererments depend on the revenue which it makes them.

quote:
Originally posted by another_someone

Quote

Cannabis is relatively tame, but does nonetheless impair judgement, and has recently been argued that long term cannabis can cause paranoia.

George




Cannabis can be tame but it depends on what type is being smoked.

Here's a few truthfull real facts about cannabis

Firstly I would say almost nobody starts using cannabis unless they were smoking cigarettes first, so the claim by some people that cannabis is the first drug on the road to the harder stuff is rubbish because cigarettes are that first drug  and the only difference is one is illegal and one isn’t.

In reality  cannabis is not addictive, the only addictive thing about a joint is its nicotine content and most of that comes from the tobacco which is placed along side in the joint. Even its psychological addictiveness is very minimal and I have never known anyone who wished to quit (and I have known many) have a problem as long as they still smoked the odd cigarette for it nicotine content.
People who can’t afford to buy it can buy a pack of fags and will not have any withdrawal symptoms.  .  

The first or second joint of the day makes you happy with life and with what’s around you which is what most people smoke it for.

The second or third joint has good points and bad, because it relaxes you and improves your brains ability to concentrate on one or two things to a level which actually improves your ability to understand or learn over normal  but to the determent of others things going on around you, which is good if you are listening to music as you hear everything , it allows you to hear and distinguish between absolutely every tone, rhythm  or drum pattern in the track improving your enjoyment. Or if you are trying to learn something hard or trying understand how something works which requires a good level of concentration or you need to think beyond you normal boundaries then cannabis actually helps. Einstein would have loved it..

Problems arise if your doing things which require you and your brain to be alert to your surroundings as your brain basically ignores things which your not thinking about or alert to which can be bad if your driving and listening to a good music track with a set of traffic lights approaching. So in my opinion people driving whilst under the influence of cannabis are just as bad as those driving whilst under the influence of alcohol.  

Beyond the third or fourth joint people tend to get as they say mashed and the main requirement when your mashed is some food a comfy chair a good film. This is also the point which cannabis users must beware because its also the time which you can start thinking about your life and contemplating its woes , so always make sure you have a good film to watch.  

One thing it has got over alcohol is the time needed to recover from the affects of cannabis is very short compared and most people are back to a level of almost normality within an hour an half of smoking it. Another plus is it’s a wonder drug if you have problems sleeping or are in need of a good night of undisturbed sleep.

Lastly their has been lots of  press in regards to the drugs ability to increase the level of paranoia over what someone normally feels and yes I agree it does increase but it only increases it whilst the person is still under the influence of  their last joint An hour later paranoia over.

The problem is everyone is paranoid to some degree its human nature and if your powers of concentration and thought are not being used by you taking part in some activity then we tend to think about ourselves but because cannabis allows you to concentrate and think deeper about things than normal silly thoughts or minor problems get investigated beyond the point where you would normally cast them aside.

Have i smoked it:) would i ever smoke it in the future No! .. and hopefully in a few weeks when i get my patches i will never touch a ciggarette again either.


Michael
« Last Edit: 22/07/2006 01:30:11 by ukmicky »
 

Offline MayoFlyFarmer

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Re: alcohol (why is it legal?)
« Reply #9 on: 22/07/2006 03:19:31 »
making a substance such as alchohol illegal only leads to INCREASED problems derived from it.  look at the problems caused during prohibition.  look at how much LESS of a problem alcohol is in countries with more lax alcohol laws.  

the real question is, why are we dumb enough to keep restrictions on other substances?

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another_someone

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Re: alcohol (why is it legal?)
« Reply #10 on: 22/07/2006 04:18:19 »
quote:
Originally posted by ukmicky
if someone invented the very first alcholic drink today it would be made illegal. but its too late now to ban it because most adults enjoy it and would be up in arms if it was banned and also because govererments depend on the revenue which it makes them.



The tendency these days is to ban pretty much everything – I'm sure if someone had just invented sex toady, they'd ban it.

quote:

In reality  cannabis is not addictive, the only addictive thing about a joint is its nicotine content and most of that comes from the tobacco which is placed along side in the joint. Even its psychological addictiveness is very minimal and I have never known anyone who wished to quit (and I have known many) have a problem as long as they still smoked the odd cigarette for it nicotine content.
People who can’t afford to buy it can buy a pack of fags and will not have any withdrawal symptoms.  .  



That is consistent with what I have heard everyone else say, and I have no reason to disbelieve it.

quote:

The second or third joint has good points and bad, because it relaxes you and improves your brains ability to concentrate on one or two things to a level which actually improves your ability to understand or learn over normal  but to the determent of others things going on around you, which is good if you are listening to music as you hear everything , it allows you to hear and distinguish between absolutely every tone, rhythm  or drum pattern in the track improving your enjoyment. Or if you are trying to learn something hard or trying understand how something works which requires a good level of concentration or you need to think beyond you normal boundaries then cannabis actually helps. Einstein would have loved it..



I used to get the same effect through lack of sleep – which is why I could never start my school homework until about 2 o'clock in the morning, because before that my mind was all over the place, and I couldn't focus on one thing.

quote:

Lastly their has been lots of  press in regards to the drugs ability to increase the level of paranoia over what someone normally feels and yes I agree it does increase but it only increases it whilst the person is still under the influence of  their last joint An hour later paranoia over.



The issue highlighted in the press is not the short term paranoia while it is being used, but rather that people who heavily use cannabis for many years are said to be at higher risk of chronic paranoia.

quote:

Have i smoked it:) would i ever smoke it in the future No! .. and hopefully in a few weeks when i get my patches i will never touch a ciggarette again either.



Never used either – never used any recreational drug excepting small quantities of alcohol, and too much of an addiction to chocolate.



George
 

another_someone

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Re: alcohol (why is it legal?)
« Reply #11 on: 22/07/2006 04:26:24 »
quote:
Originally posted by MayoFlyFarmer
making a substance such as alchohol illegal only leads to INCREASED problems derived from it.  look at the problems caused during prohibition.



Agreed.

quote:

look at how much LESS of a problem alcohol is in countries with more lax alcohol laws.  



Don't agree this is necessarily cause and effect – it could just as easily be argued that countries with fewer alcohol problems see no need for excessive legislation over the issue.

I think alcohol should be a controlled substance, but not a prohibited substance.  I think it should still have obstacles placed upon obtaining it (restricted sources, and high price), but I think it should be available to anyone who is willing and able to overcome the obstacles.  I also firmly believe that alcohol should be available to children under the supervision of adults (with the proviso that the supervising adult can be prosecuted fore allowing a child to become intoxicated).

quote:

the real question is, why are we dumb enough to keep restrictions on other substances?



Unfortunately, from a political point of view, it is not much of a question – but I do agree that prohibition merely has the effect of relinquishing control over the substance.  The people who would be most upset by the legislation of all recreational drugs would be organised crime syndicates.



George
 

Offline MayoFlyFarmer

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Re: alcohol (why is it legal?)
« Reply #12 on: 23/07/2006 21:28:32 »
although i have no evidence to back this up, nor do i tink anyone does; I would be willing to bet that over 85% of the alcohol related problems in anyone under the age of 50 in the US are due dirrectly or indirrectly to our obsurdly high drinking age of 21.

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Offline chris

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Re: alcohol (why is it legal?)
« Reply #13 on: 23/07/2006 21:49:50 »
Yes, it's ironic that at one time in the US I would have been able to buy a gun, but not a beer...

Good to see you're back Mayo. We've missed you.

Chris

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Offline 4getmenot

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Re: alcohol (why is it legal?)
« Reply #14 on: 24/07/2006 20:35:35 »
cause it is promoted...i know some colleges have this tradition that as soon as the kid turns 21 they go out to a bar or whatever and have to drink 21 shots really fast to equaL their age and killed some of the kids from alcohol poisoning...i mean..how can the government think it is good for it to be legal????? out of all the drugs out there.alcohol has the most problems associated with it......it just boggles my mind....i think there would stil be less problems having it as a black market than it being legal.....and if a black market is what no one wants to deal with then just leagalise the other stuff too since it is out there anyway with the same problem???

k
 

another_someone

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Re: alcohol (why is it legal?)
« Reply #15 on: 24/07/2006 20:54:20 »
quote:
Originally posted by 4getmenot
i know some colleges have this tradition that as soon as the kid turns 21 they go out to a bar or whatever and have to drink 21 shots really fast to equaL their age and killed some of the kids from alcohol poisoning...i mean..how can the government think it is good for it to be legal?????



But does that not simply highlight the reason why it should be legal for children.

If alcohol was legal for 5 year olds, then by the time they got to being 21, there would not be anything special about alcohol, and there would not be any reason to go out and suddenly do something because it was legal today but illegal yesterday.

If children from 5 years of age, were taught to drink responsibly, then by the time they get to 21, they know how to deal with it sensibly, and not get silly with it.

Or do you believe that human beings should never be trusted with anything dangerous, like motor cars or guns?



George
 

Offline 4getmenot

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Re: alcohol (why is it legal?)
« Reply #16 on: 27/07/2006 05:04:37 »
well most kids have already drank if not more than once by the time they are 21 anyway, so law or no law they do it regardless, and still they do not learn the dangers......

k
 

Offline MayoFlyFarmer

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Re: alcohol (why is it legal?)
« Reply #17 on: 28/07/2006 02:08:41 »
yeah, but they still grew up with this notion that it was something "naughty"  to be abused. when they first tried it they felt like they had to hide it (because they did) from anyone who was experienced enough to teach them how to be responsible with it.

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Offline 4getmenot

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Re: alcohol (why is it legal?)
« Reply #18 on: 28/07/2006 05:19:44 »
true, anf they do need to be taught 2 b resposible with it and anything dangerous..

k
 

Offline 4getmenot

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Re: alcohol (why is it legal?)
« Reply #19 on: 27/07/2006 05:04:37 »
well most kids have already drank if not more than once by the time they are 21 anyway, so law or no law they do it regardless, and still they do not learn the dangers......

k
 

Offline MayoFlyFarmer

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Re: alcohol (why is it legal?)
« Reply #20 on: 28/07/2006 02:08:41 »
yeah, but they still grew up with this notion that it was something "naughty"  to be abused. when they first tried it they felt like they had to hide it (because they did) from anyone who was experienced enough to teach them how to be responsible with it.

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Offline 4getmenot

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Re: alcohol (why is it legal?)
« Reply #21 on: 28/07/2006 05:19:44 »
true, anf they do need to be taught 2 b resposible with it and anything dangerous..

k
 

Offline ariel

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Re: alcohol (why is it legal?)
« Reply #22 on: 13/08/2006 02:34:09 »
ooh. i see this topic covered cannabis quite a bit.
sorry, i didn't see this- and i made a new topic about ganja
only because i didn't realize it was being discussed on the forum at all.

but let me say that these were my thoughts exactly and one of the main reasons i started the topic on "ganja"

quote:

Originally posted by 4getmenot
on topic of drugs...i have never heard of someone who smokes weed getting into accidents or starting fights or being boligerant to some1.....why is it illegal when it causes less public problems than alcohol....and even if it did create a black market for alcohol by making it illegal, wouldn;t it still be better than promoting a thing that causes so much damage?



ariel
« Last Edit: 13/08/2006 02:34:48 by ariel »
 

Offline Mjhavok

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Re: alcohol (why is it legal?)
« Reply #23 on: 14/08/2006 00:41:13 »
No one is taking my volatile hydroxyl compounds away from me.

Steven
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In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
« Last Edit: 14/08/2006 17:36:18 by Mjhavok »
 

Offline 4getmenot

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Re: alcohol (why is it legal?)
« Reply #24 on: 14/08/2006 05:24:13 »
quote:
Originally posted by ariel

ooh. i see this topic covered cannabis quite a bit.
sorry, i didn't see this- and i made a new topic about ganja
only because i didn't realize it was being discussed on the forum at all.

but let me say that these were my thoughts exactly and one of the main reasons i started the topic on "ganja"

quote:

Originally posted by 4getmenot
on topic of drugs...i have never heard of someone who smokes weed getting into accidents or starting fights or being boligerant to some1.....why is it illegal when it causes less public problems than alcohol....and even if it did create a black market for alcohol by making it illegal, wouldn;t it still be better than promoting a thing that causes so much damage?



ariel



I didn'r either..i did not know it would go this direction...but now that it is here...what does everyone think? should it be legal since the  drug (alcohol) the worst one IS legal??

k
 

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Re: alcohol (why is it legal?)
« Reply #24 on: 14/08/2006 05:24:13 »

 

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