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Author Topic: QotW - 13.09.24 - Is there a safe way to consume tobacco?  (Read 7211 times)

Offline thedoc

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Is snus a safer alternative to smoking cigarettes?
Asked by kalind


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« Last Edit: 24/09/2013 17:42:55 by _system »


 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: QotW - 13.09.24 - Is there a safe way to consume tobacco?
« Reply #1 on: 24/09/2013 17:06:23 »
Some years ago a Texas judge ruled that a cigarette is an inherently defective product since it is not essential to life in the short term, and its only known longterm effect is to kill you.

There is no doubt that not smoking is the safest alternative to smoking, and not inhaling carcinogens by any route is probably safer still.

On the other hand, whose life is it? It is of no legitimate concern to anyone else what you stuff up your nose or in your veins, as long as it doesn't harm or offend anyone else, or make you behave badly. So I guess the correct answer is, who cares? 
 

Offline RD

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Re: QotW - 13.09.24 - Is there a safe way to consume tobacco?
« Reply #2 on: 24/09/2013 18:03:41 »
... as long as it doesn't harm or offend anyone else, or make you behave badly ...

I'm finding it hard to think of anything which "doesn't harm or offend anyone else, or make you behave badly".

 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: QotW - 13.09.24 - Is there a safe way to consume tobacco?
« Reply #3 on: 24/09/2013 22:44:37 »
Snuff. And most illegal drugs. Compared with alcohol and cigarettes, most banned substances are pretty harmless to others.
 

Offline CliffordK

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Re: QotW - 13.09.24 - Is there a safe way to consume tobacco?
« Reply #4 on: 24/09/2013 22:59:33 »
I found the distinction between snus and dipping tobacco (also known as snuff in the USA) to be quite interesting.

Apparently there is no spitting with the snus...  I would think that would at least make it more pleasing to others around the one using it.

The snuff does carry a high risk of mouth & throat cancer, and also apparently bladder cancer (concentrated byproducts of smoking and chewing).

The snus must have enough removed to make it significantly safer.

As mentioned in the article, smokeless cigarettes may give the nicotine does with a lower risk, although time will tell if they bring other risk factors with them.

As others have mentioned, the safest tobacco is that that is left on the shelf.
 

Offline RD

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Re: QotW - 13.09.24 - Is there a safe way to consume tobacco?
« Reply #5 on: 25/09/2013 23:47:32 »
... most banned substances are pretty harmless to others.

In a public health system, like NHS, if a substance-abuser user puts themselves in hospital, other people, (mostly not self-inflicted), will have to wait longer for treatment and suffer more as a result, i.e. the drug-abuse has knock-on effects which harm other members of society.

No man is an island , ( although Pavarotti was almost big enough  :) )
« Last Edit: 26/09/2013 00:00:38 by RD »
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: QotW - 13.09.24 - Is there a safe way to consume tobacco?
« Reply #6 on: 26/09/2013 00:07:46 »
Same applies to a careless driver, drunk who falls downstairs, failed suicide, prat with chainsaw, broken leg....but we don't ban cars, beer, razor blades, garden tools, skis....

Long-term head injury patients are mostly self-inflicted: falling off horses, motorbikes, or roofs. These patients cost a fortune to keep alive, whereas a druggie with a bad high can usually go home in a few days.

So who do you think deserves priority treatment, and who should be refused on grounds of selfinfliciton? The weasel word is "abuse". Nobody talks about chainsaw abuse, or excessive horse riding. Why not?
 

Offline RD

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Re: QotW - 13.09.24 - Is there a safe way to consume tobacco?
« Reply #7 on: 26/09/2013 00:55:10 »
My point was that people who intoxicate themselves do harm others in the process,
in response to your condition  ...

... as long as it doesn't harm or offend anyone else, or make you behave badly ...

As I mentioned previously I can't think of any activity which would satisfy those conditions,
( including your skiing and horse-riding examples ).

So who do you think deserves priority treatment, and who should be refused on grounds of selfinfliciton? The weasel word is "abuse". Nobody talks about chainsaw abuse, or excessive horse riding. Why not?

An [national] health insurance system where people paid proportionally more if they went out of their way participate in hazardous activities would cover the horsey-types and chainsaw-jugglers.
This could include a fat-tax : ( the obese paying more towards health care costs ).   

As for who "deserves priority treatment" IMO the ambulance should not race to respond to a heroin OD, (you did ask).
« Last Edit: 26/09/2013 01:25:59 by RD »
 

Offline CliffordK

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Re: QotW - 13.09.24 - Is there a safe way to consume tobacco?
« Reply #8 on: 26/09/2013 01:06:03 »
How did we get so far off of tobacco?

Ahh, I found some statistics.

In a 2006 European study, the risk of developing lung cancer was:
  • 0.2% for men who never smoked (0.4% for women)
  • 5.5% for male former smokers (2.6% in women)
  • 15.9% for current male smokers (9.5% for women)
  • 24.4% for male “heavy smokers” defined as smoking more than 5 cigarettes per day (18.5% for women)

That is HUGE.
One quarter of the heavy smokers develop lung cancer (not mentioning other complications).  Hard to compare that to traumatic brain injuries from bicycle commuting.

I hate the idea of censoring things that give people enjoyment... but do people truly enjoy smoking?
 

Offline Skyli

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Re: QotW - 13.09.24 - Is there a safe way to consume tobacco?
« Reply #9 on: 27/09/2013 17:52:41 »
Unfortunately some of us do, indeed, enjoy smoking. It's unhealthy and antisocial, without a doubt, so many non-smokers don't enjoy smokers. Good on 'em; it's not my favorite characteristic of old Skyli either. Habit and Addiction are a very nasty and tenacious mix.

But when I'm not pulling on a cancer-stick I often go back to the old question of whether tobacco and alcohol would be banned if they were newly discovered narcotics - even coffee (but not tea. Anything but that!).
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: QotW - 13.09.24 - Is there a safe way to consume tobacco?
« Reply #10 on: 27/09/2013 22:54:29 »
How did we get so far off of tobacco?

because everyone knows it is dangerous, so discussion is pointless

Quote
I hate the idea of censoring things that give people enjoyment... but do people truly enjoy smoking?

since it is voluntary, pointless, expensive and dangerous, one must assume that those who do it derive some pleasure from it. Like skiing.
 

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Re: QotW - 13.09.24 - Is there a safe way to consume tobacco?
« Reply #10 on: 27/09/2013 22:54:29 »

 

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