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Author Topic: advertise our presence to aliens ('The argument')  (Read 1980 times)

Offline Pmb

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Proper subject now moved to Tech board - this 'debate' about it has been split off.
Thanks all. ~Mod

If humanity wished to let the other (so far hypothetical) denizens of the Universe know that the Solar System is inhabited by a technological species, what would be one or more good ways to do it?
This is not the proper forum for this kind of thing. This forum is for science, which has a certain methodology to it. UFOology can't be studied within the methodology of science. i recommend the New Theories forum at http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?board=18.0
« Last Edit: 17/09/2013 13:22:31 by peppercorn »


 

Offline Supercryptid

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Re: advertise our presence to aliens ('The argument')
« Reply #1 on: 16/09/2013 05:49:20 »
This is not the proper forum for this kind of thing. This forum is for science, which has a certain methodology to it. UFOology can't be studied within the methodology of science. i recommend the New Theories forum at http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?board=18.0
Please point out in my original post where I said anything about UFOs. Many scientists believe it is a strong possibility that we are not the only intelligent life in the Universe (but that it has yet to be detected or proven). This has nothing to do with Ufology, alien abductions or any such similar matters.
 

Offline Pmb

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Re: advertise our presence to aliens ('The argument')
« Reply #2 on: 16/09/2013 06:59:39 »
Quote from: Supercryptid
Please point out in my original post where I said anything about UFOs. Many scientists believe it is a strong possibility that we are not the only intelligent life in the Universe (but that it has yet to be detected or proven). This has nothing to do with Ufology, alien abductions or any such similar matters.
Semantics. You know what I meant. Tell me - What part of that do you think is something subject to the study of physics? The subject matter is as I said, UFOology, which means aliens which means intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, etc. Threads like this, while perhaps very reasonable and should be discussed, should not be discussed here, in a science thread. The reason being that science is not an area of thought which can be used to search for life in the universe. That is, perhaps, technology, chemistry, new theories, etc. Physics, Astronomy and Cosmology, as sciences, do not have the methodology to search for life. They might, at best, be able to help create new methods of communication. But that's about it. Is that what you want? New methods of communication?
« Last Edit: 16/09/2013 07:35:44 by Pmb »
 

Offline Supercryptid

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Re: advertise our presence to aliens ('The argument')
« Reply #3 on: 16/09/2013 08:10:56 »
Semantics. You know what I meant. Tell me - What part of that do you think is something subject to the study of physics? The subject matter is as I said, UFOology, which means aliens which means intelligent life elsewhere in the universe, etc.
Ufology is the study of unidentified flying objects. Something doesn't have to be alien in origin to be a UFO. Surely you don't think that the study of strange lights in the sky at night is a concept that is conflatable with the idea that we might be able to alert intelligent life forms which live in distant star systems to our presence? The connotations are entirely different.

Besides, this is also a forum for cosmology and astronomy, not just physics. I'd say those two fields are very relevant to any discussion about prospective ETs.
 

Offline Pmb

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Re: advertise our presence to aliens ('The argument')
« Reply #4 on: 16/09/2013 08:22:23 »
Why do you want to play around with semantics when that's not the point. The point is that science is not something capable of addressing what you're talking about, period. Physics, Astronomy and Cosmology are systems of study. Such systems of study have nothing to do with looking for the presence of alien intelligence. Astronomy and Cosmology is not the place for ET study. Go to the astrophysicists or cosmologists at MIT and ask them which part of their studies and research pertain to calling ET.

And astronomy and cosmology are not studies of ET as you contend.

Cosmology is (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmology)
Quote
Cosmology is the study of the origins and eventual fate of the universe. Physical cosmology is the scholarly and scientific study of the origin, evolution, structure, dynamics, and ultimate fate of the universe, as well as the natural laws that keep it in order.

Astronomy is (seehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomy)
Quote
Astronomy is a natural science that is the study of celestial objects (such as moons, planets, stars, nebulae, and galaxies), the physics, chemistry, mathematics, and evolution of such objects, and phenomena that originate outside the atmosphere of Earth, including supernovae explosions, gamma ray bursts, and cosmic background radiation. A related but distinct subject, cosmology, is concerned with studying the universe as a whole.

What you're thinking of is astrobiology which is (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrobiology)
Quote
Astrobiology is the study of the origin, evolution, distribution, and future of life in the universe: extraterrestrial life and life on Earth.

Regarding your claim
Quote
Ufology is the study of unidentified flying objects. Something doesn't have to be alien in origin to be a UFO. Surely you don't think that the study of strange lights in the sky at night is a concept that is conflatable with the idea that we might be able to alert intelligent life forms which live in distant star systems to our presence? The connotations are entirely different.
You're confusing UFOlogy (which I incorrectly spelled UFOology at first) is not about merely the study of UFOs. UFOs is only part of UFOlogy. UFology includes Aliens while the study of UFOs does not. Most people associate them to be the same and I assumed that you did too. If that is not the case then I retract my statement. But we're getting steeped into semantics now anyway so I'll said what I said to begin with - This is not the place for this subject, i.e. astrobiology.
« Last Edit: 16/09/2013 08:42:18 by Pmb »
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: advertise our presence to aliens ('The argument')
« Reply #5 on: 16/09/2013 10:49:27 »
Quote
The point is that science is not something capable of addressing what you're talking about, period.

Of course it is. The question is how do you send a signal that indicates the presence of intelligent life, to an unknown receiver?

I have an array of gadgets in my aeroplane for doing exactly that, from a default emergency setting on the standard radios, via a GPS-enabled satcom ELT and a mobile phone, to flares and firelighters. All designed to tell somebody I don't know and isn't expecting to hear from me, that I am alive and need help. Good physics, good psychology, good engineering.

So, what physics, psychology and engineering would you suggest to contact somebody a very long way away, who isn't even aware of the existence of intelligent life on earth? And why is a program that has already attracted some seriously big names in astronomy and telecoms (google SETI) not worthy of discussion here? 
 

Offline Supercryptid

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Re: advertise our presence to aliens ('The argument')
« Reply #6 on: 16/09/2013 22:30:07 »
Hmm, well would you look at that:

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=48341.0

Not only is this a topic about extraterrestrials which was posted in the Physics, Astronomy and Cosmology by the administrator, but you Pmb, even replied to it without complaining about it being in the wrong forum. Heck, the administrator even posted about ghosts in that same forum and yet you didn't object: http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=48255.0

Oh look, and some other topics about aliens which weren't moved from that forum either:

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=48233.0
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=48068.0
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=47468.0
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=420.0
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=46247.0
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: advertise our presence to aliens ('The argument')
« Reply #7 on: 17/09/2013 07:23:07 »
...or a small blue planet that looks so much like ET's that he thinks "hey, there might be life there!" Which is exactly what terrestrial astronomers are looking for right now.

But Pmb presumably doesn't think the search for extrasolar wet planets counts as science, so the results will be dumped in the looney section of this forum.
 

Offline Supercryptid

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Re: advertise our presence to aliens ('The argument')
« Reply #8 on: 17/09/2013 16:19:39 »
I apologize for making the moderators feel that there was a need to split this off from the original topic due to the derailing that my debating was causing. I will end my arguing now. You can delete this if you so desire.
 

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Re: advertise our presence to aliens ('The argument')
« Reply #8 on: 17/09/2013 16:19:39 »

 

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