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Author Topic: Back to atom-theory. Form?  (Read 3697 times)

Offline heikki

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Back to atom-theory. Form?
« on: 22/07/2006 16:50:38 »
:)

Hi.

We read atom-theory and there is many several books of that. Many scient area has atom-basic. Therefore i open this atom-form(shape) conversation.

Like we know, atom is best image of nature-matter basic level what humankind has scient-invent.

I think that if we live 1000years forward todays atom-theory is old image because i think that it is not likely that scient has found matter-basic elements yet.

Therefore i make few question to start this conversation.

1. What is form(shape) of one individual atom?
2. What is size, weight, color.
3. Can one atom exist without other atoms?
4. How one atom born?
5. If atom born, then it must grown?

:)


 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: Back to atom-theory. Form?
« Reply #1 on: 23/07/2006 00:46:12 »
Iím not an expert Iím only learning like you but here my take on it.


 
quote:
1.   What is form (shape) of one individual atom.

 
Hydrogen atoms have no neutrons so basically all atoms apart from hydrogen contain three things electrons, neutrons and protons. The nucleus contains two of them which belong to the hadron family and are the positively charged protons and neutrally charged neutrons, neither which are fundamental particles as both can be broken down further "quarks"  

Outside the nucleus you have the third the negatively charged electrons which are fundamental   particles (at there lowest form )and belong to the family of leptons. The electrons reside outside the nucleus in different orbits/shells depending on their energy level but just like photons they are wavelike and so donít orbit like a planet as such but exist everywhere within the shell.
In a neutrally charged atom the electrons will equal the number of protons in the nucleus.

And If you want to go more fundemental you could go further and  you could look inside the protons and neutrons and look at the quarks,anti quarks, mesons, bosons,pions gluons etc etc and see what they mean by colour charge.
http://www.crystallotus.com/Atom/04b.htm

quote:
2. What is size, weight, and colour.

These would depend on what element the atom was and is determined by
by the number of electrons, protons or neutrons the particular atom consists of. Size wise theirs not much difference between different atoms but weight can vary greatly between the different elements, the lightest hydrogen weighs 200 x less than the heaviest plutonium.

Just like size and weight colour is also determined by the element. if you view light through a prism light is broken down into its different colours and frequencies, but if you heat an element say helium and view the light it gives out certain colours will be missing as each element only emits waves of certain frequencies and each element has unique frequency characteristics.
 
 
quote:
3. Can one atom exist without other atoms?
Not sure what you mean and i want to say Yes as the existance of a hydrogen atom for instance isnt dependant on any other elements. But will wait for clarification.

 
quote:
4. How one atom born?


Most elements are created in stars and supernovae but some can only be artificially created in partical accelerators etc due to them being too unstable to be found on the earth naturally
.


 
quote:
5. If atom born, then it must grown
:)



Michael
« Last Edit: 23/07/2006 03:22:29 by ukmicky »
 

Offline heikki

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Re: Back to atom-theory. Form?
« Reply #2 on: 23/07/2006 08:08:50 »
:)

Hi, ukmicky, and thanks join this conversation.

I accurate more these two question.

quote:
Originally posted by heikki

:)

1. What is form(shape) of one individual atom?

3. Can one atom exist without other atoms?

:)



What i mean form(shape)? I mean just exactly form, like ball, cube, house, flower, moon, etc.  etc. My question is, what is form of one individual atom? Todays atom model atom form is almost like sun-earth-moon forms are. Where electron is small ball and round atom-center where is few different balls. I have not found real taken image of one individual atom? I dont know if some research center has taken it? I have seen only drawed theoretical images where electron(s) round center. I draw this one atom image on to paper and think that many months. How electron can round center without anykind of shaft? What is that engine who rotate that shaft what dont have? Then i continue this atom-model drawing and draw one gene to atom-structure. But, that is the different explore to my hobby-scientist study area.

I mean that can atom exist or live alone without other atoms to be a atom? If one atom structure include many part and if these parts can exist without join to atom-structure then atom-size molecyle structure is not the basic material. Basic material is then that parts. Therefore that question, how one atom born? has also backround. Of cource, it is possible that one atom cannot be a atom without other atoms, side-by side? Also what kind form has electron which is charged electron? Like electric-scient text says?

:)

ps. I dont have answers but i have capacity to make questions because i'm so inquisitive. Also my thought is that human-kinds scientifical nature-exploration at nature-matter-life area is dawn start and todays theoryes, some are ok, some dont, and new theoryes maybe comes just future. New things are so interesting and difficult because we dont know these things before things are born or invent.

ps. Sorry my english and also, i dont use my text lot of scientifical terms or mathematical formulaes, because of many reasons. And also, because scient is free-time hobby for me and i dont have big needs to work too more in these issues. Must life also.
   
:)
 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: Back to atom-theory. Form?
« Reply #3 on: 23/07/2006 21:33:38 »
Hi heikki
No worries about your english :)
quote:
What I means form (shape)? I mean just exactly form, like ball, cube, house, flower, moon, etc. etc. My question is what is form of one individual atom? Todayís atom model atom form is almost like sun-earth-moon forms are. Where electron is small ball and round atom-centre where is few different balls. I have not found real taken image of one individual atom? I donít know if some research centre has taken it? I have seen only drawn theoretical images where electron(s) round centre.

You will never see a real image of an atom as an atom is 10,000 times  smaller the smallest wavelength of visible light, the waves just flow straight past as if the atom werenít their so nothing gets reflected back to form an image. There are two basic forms /models of an atom either  the simple classic bohr model or the quantum cloud model.

http://regentsprep.org/Regents/physics/phys05/catomodel/default.htm
http://education.jlab.org/qa/atom_model.html

quote:
I draw this one atom image on to paper and think that many months. How electron can round centre without any kind of shaft? What is that engine who rotates that shaft what donít have?


The electron has spin, intrinsic angular momentum and orbits the nucleus like a smaller version of the moon orbiting the earth.
http://www.colorado.edu/physics/2000/waves_particles/wavpart2.html




I havnt got time at the moment to try and awnser you properly but in the meantime.

try the lesson below for a quick and easy tutorial.I will get back to you later.:)

http://www.schoolscience.co.uk/content/4/physics/atoms/partch3pg1.html




Michael
« Last Edit: 23/07/2006 21:37:15 by ukmicky »
 

Offline heikki

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Re: Back to atom-theory. Form?
« Reply #4 on: 25/07/2006 06:54:53 »
quote:
Originally posted by ukmicky



You will never see a real image of an atom as an atom is 10,000 times  smaller the smallest wavelength of visible light.

http://regentsprep.org/Regents/physics/phys05/catomodel/default.htm
http://education.jlab.org/qa/atom_model.html
http://www.schoolscience.co.uk/content/4/physics/atoms/partch3pg1.html




:)

Hi, and thanks these links.

I have study this atom-theory starting since -73 when i start to my electrician work-life. And i have been with electric-area over 20 years to work and so on. Maintenance, design, work with many kind of measuring equipments, etc.

No i want to see deeply of that atom-theory. Therefore i make questions. These theoryes has coupple basic things which bother me, because i'm a technician.


1. What is that + and - things of center-balls and of cource one electron-ball also?

2. If electron round center like moon round earth, then what is that shaft and what is that engine which rotate this shaft?

Like you see the links atom-model, electron rotate center. Also electron and center-balls can take and loose + and -.

----
Other thing.

I dont thing that light is wave-vibration thing. I think that light and colors are some kind of matter-particle stuff-motion without wave-vibration. Smaller size than electron-size is. Therefore light-stuff can push/influnce electrons (or these +- - things) to motion, example. light-resistor or light-diode or photocell, etc.

(Of cource it is possible that light-color-stuff carried radiosignal so that it then vibrate but my though is that that matter where radiowaves goes is bigger part-size material than light and colors are.)


:)
 

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Re: Back to atom-theory. Form?
« Reply #4 on: 25/07/2006 06:54:53 »

 

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