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Author Topic: Do Flu vaccines increase the risk of pandemic flu?  (Read 3110 times)

Offline CliffordK

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I bumped into the "Canadian Problem" today.

Apparently Dr. Danuta Skowronski noticed that individuals that had gotten a 2008 Flu vaccine were about twice as likely to get the swine flu during the 2008/2009 season, and/or tended to develop worse symptoms.  And, apparently this association was confirmed with additional research.

Obviously there are many biases that are possible including those individuals that got flu shots might be more likely to seek medical attention for the flu, or even those that typically get worse flu symptoms would be more likely to get the flu shot.

However, apparently since the original study, the findings have been replicated in ferrets and pigs.

But Vincent's study raises a red flag. She and her colleagues immunized piglets with an H1N2 vaccine, then exposed them to the H1N1 virus that caused the 2009 pandemic. Though both viruses were H1s, they were quite different genetically.

Instead of being protected, the H1N2-vaccinated pigs developed more severe disease than exposed pigs that hadn't been pre-vaccinated. When the researchers tested the blood of the vaccinated pigs, they found high levels of antibodies that attached to the stalk of the H1N1 hemagglutinin, but not to the head of the protein.

I had always thought that getting "near match" vaccines might offer a person partial immunity, but this does seem to raise concerns.


 

Offline chris

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Re: Do Flu vaccines increase the risk of pandemic flu?
« Reply #1 on: 25/09/2013 19:03:46 »
Interesting; I'd not come across these claims. I shall have a look into this.
 

Offline tkadm30

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Re: Do Flu vaccines increase the risk of pandemic flu?
« Reply #2 on: 03/01/2016 13:21:27 »
If the "Spanish" flu of 1918 was caused by a typhoid vaccine, then history could repeat itself again.

More interesting, the connections between the "bird" and "swine" flu might provides evidences to the true origins of the pandemic. Moreover, the recombinant H1N1 vaccines has been genetically engineered from the 1918 influenza virus. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4308872.stm

"When we give government the power to make medical decisions for us, we, in essence, accept that the state owns our bodies." -U.S. Representative Ron Paul
 

Offline Ophiolite

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Re: Do Flu vaccines increase the risk of pandemic flu?
« Reply #3 on: 03/01/2016 21:21:39 »
"When we give government the power to make medical decisions for us, we, in essence, accept that the state owns our bodies." -U.S. Representative Ron Paul
Which countries' governments have made flu vaccination mandatory? If, as I suspect, there are none, then the decision to take a flu shot, or not remains a personal decision. In that case your quote is both irrelevant and misleading - one suspects, deliberately.
 

Offline tkadm30

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Re: Do Flu vaccines increase the risk of pandemic flu?
« Reply #4 on: 03/01/2016 23:11:54 »
Which countries' governments have made flu vaccination mandatory? If, as I suspect, there are none, then the decision to take a flu shot, or not remains a personal decision. In that case your quote is both irrelevant and misleading - one suspects, deliberately.

Whether flu vaccination is mandatory or enforced through coercive persuasion is pointless. The objective remains to inoculate populations with a flu shot on the basis of fear of the pandemic. From this perspective, one could ask why the governments and mass media are obsessed with flu vaccination.
 

Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Do Flu vaccines increase the risk of pandemic flu?
« Reply #5 on: 04/01/2016 13:36:47 »

If the "Spanish" flu of 1918 was caused by a typhoid vaccine.

It wasn't.

 

Offline chris

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Re: Do Flu vaccines increase the risk of pandemic flu?
« Reply #6 on: 04/01/2016 16:59:39 »
The objective remains to inoculate populations with a flu shot on the basis of fear of the pandemic.

Not quite; the purpose of annual flu vaccination is to prevent epidemics (not pandemics) and to reduce the mortality among vulnerable populations. Towards this latter goal, there is robust evidence to support vaccination as a sound strategy, on average.
« Last Edit: 04/01/2016 18:49:22 by chris »
 

Offline tkadm30

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Re: Do Flu vaccines increase the risk of pandemic flu?
« Reply #7 on: 04/01/2016 19:14:18 »
Not quite; the purpose of flu vaccination is to prevent epidemics (not pandemics) and to reduce the mortality among vulnerable populations. Towards this latter goal, there is robust evidence to support vaccination as a sound strategy, on average.
chris,

The 2009 flu pandemic vaccines (H1N1) was a genetically-modified recombinant virus to generate monoclonal antibodies from low reactors (virus-like-particles).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_pandemic_vaccine 
 

Offline RD

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Re: Do Flu vaccines increase the risk of pandemic flu?
« Reply #8 on: 04/01/2016 21:02:31 »
chris, ...
Before attempting to lecture Chris on the subject of virology,
you should note that he is a lecturer, in virology, see ... http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/about-us/who-are-we/chris/
« Last Edit: 04/01/2016 21:05:25 by RD »
 

Offline tkadm30

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Re: Do Flu vaccines increase the risk of pandemic flu?
« Reply #9 on: 05/01/2016 11:59:37 »

Is the Eurasian avian-like H1N1 (EAH1N1) influenza virus man-made ?















 

Offline chris

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Re: Do Flu vaccines increase the risk of pandemic flu?
« Reply #10 on: 06/01/2016 00:07:57 »
The 2009 flu pandemic vaccines (H1N1) was a genetically-modified recombinant virus to generate monoclonal antibodies from low reactors (virus-like-particles).

No, that's not right.

No vaccine elicits monoclonal antibody production; that's something that happens in a test-tube under carefully managed conditions.

Vaccines elicit a polyclonal response; that is, they stimulate a broadly neutralising antibody response which, in the case of the split flu vaccine, recognises a range of epitopes.

Flu vaccine strains are, by definition, all man-made because they are manipulated to ensure that they replicate well in eggs, which is the culture vessel used to produce the (majority of) flu vaccines.
« Last Edit: 06/01/2016 08:40:57 by chris »
 
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Offline Ophiolite

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Re: Do Flu vaccines increase the risk of pandemic flu?
« Reply #11 on: 08/01/2016 00:51:34 »
Which countries' governments have made flu vaccination mandatory? If, as I suspect, there are none, then the decision to take a flu shot, or not remains a personal decision. In that case your quote is both irrelevant and misleading - one suspects, deliberately.

Whether flu vaccination is mandatory or enforced through coercive persuasion is pointless. The objective remains to inoculate populations with a flu shot on the basis of fear of the pandemic.
Your persistent use of absolute assertions laced with conspiracy theory invective and tinged with smoldering anger is unattractive on a science forum. (Or anywhere else for that matter.) You would be more likely to make your case if you decreased the rage, increased the objectivity and added some genuine facts, rather than willful misinterpretations.
 

Offline tkadm30

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Re: Do Flu vaccines increase the risk of pandemic flu?
« Reply #12 on: 08/01/2016 11:13:57 »
Your persistent use of absolute assertions laced with conspiracy theory invective and tinged with smoldering anger is unattractive on a science forum. (Or anywhere else for that matter.) You would be more likely to make your case if you decreased the rage, increased the objectivity and added some genuine facts, rather than willful misinterpretations.

Thanks for your criticism. But this autocratic reasoning does not disapprove the concerns that flu vaccines may increase pandemic potential of the influenza virus. Rather, it creates deceptive interpretations that such vaccines provides immunity against the H1N1 strains. Partial immunity may not decrease recombinant virus to mutate into a pathogenic influenza strain (EAH1N1).
 

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Re: Do Flu vaccines increase the risk of pandemic flu?
« Reply #12 on: 08/01/2016 11:13:57 »

 

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