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Author Topic: What atomic mechanism could possibly generate gravitons  (Read 3071 times)

Offline jeffreyH

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If gravitons are generated by mass then how? The nobel gas charge I am assuming to be neutral. Is this correct? I have found a correlation between solid state matter and gravitation. Not that it effects gravitation but that solids adhere more to a mass than gases or liquids. Common sense you may think. In view of the fact that helium gas lies below solid hydrogen at low temperatures and high pressures then the structure of a noble gas can tell us something important about gravitation.

Solids are made by atoms with incomplete electron shells but i can find no good reason for graviton emission because of this effect. It has to account for both molecular mass and atomic mass as seen with helium.

What is it about solidification that is so important to the properties of gravitation.
« Last Edit: 06/10/2013 11:35:35 by jeffreyH »


 

Offline jeffreyH

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Re: What atomic mechanism could possibly generate gravitons
« Reply #1 on: 06/10/2013 12:20:38 »
Correction it should have said liquid hydrogen. Which is even stranger.
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Re: What atomic mechanism could possibly generate gravitons
« Reply #2 on: 07/10/2013 00:26:37 »
Gravitons are produces when bodies with mass interact with each other under gravity.  It is the same as photons which are produced by bodies interacting under electromagnetic forces.  Higher frequency individual photons like light and above can easily be detected individually as individual photons associated with individual atoms.  at lower frequencies like radio waves the energy content of individual photons is so small that they cannot be detected individually only collectively as a radio signal. Gravitational interactions at any scale are so weak and slow that individual gravitons are fare too weak to be detected individually only collectively in the gravitational interactions of large bodies like the earth moon planets and stars.
 

Offline Pmb

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Re: What atomic mechanism could possibly generate gravitons
« Reply #3 on: 07/10/2013 00:57:27 »
Quote from: jeffreyH
If gravitons are generated by mass then how?
Nobody knows. It's all speculation at this point. There is no theory of quantum gravity at this point so it remains speculation. But when it comes the answer will be found in elementary particle physics. The electromagnetic interaction is mediated by the exchange of photons. It is thought that something similar would happen with gravitons.

Quote from: jeffreyH
The nobel gas charge I am assuming to be neutral. Is this correct?
I wish I could tell you but I have no idea what a ďnobel gas chargeĒ is and what itís relatioinship to being charged or uncharged is.

Quote from: jeffreyH
I have found a correlation between solid state matter and gravitation. Not that it effects gravitation but that solids adhere more to a mass than gases or liquids. Common sense you may think. In view of the fact that helium gas lies below solid hydrogen at low temperatures and high pressures then the structure of a noble gas can tell us something important about gravitation.

Solids are made by atoms with incomplete electron shells but i can find no good reason for graviton emission because of this effect. It has to account for both molecular mass and atomic mass as seen with helium.

What is it about solidification that is so important to the properties of gravitation.
Atomic physics cannot tell you anything about gravitons. In fact quantum mechanics canít either. Itís only particle physics that can do that. And since Iím not an expert on particle physics Iíll shut up now. :)
« Last Edit: 07/10/2013 00:59:55 by Pmb »
 

Offline Phractality

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Re: What atomic mechanism could possibly generate gravitons
« Reply #4 on: 07/10/2013 02:41:03 »
Jeff,
I am not aware of any answer to your question in mainstream physics. I have my own ideas about what causes all the forces, including gravity, but this is not the New Theories forum. I could be suspended if I expound any further.
 

Offline jeffreyH

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Re: What atomic mechanism could possibly generate gravitons
« Reply #5 on: 07/10/2013 02:47:20 »
Jeff,
I am not aware of any answer to your question in mainstream physics. I have my own ideas about what causes all the forces, including gravity, but this is not the New Theories forum. I could be suspended if I expound any further.

Send me a PM. I'd be interested to hear. For me the electron shells are the obstacle.
 

Offline Pmb

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Re: What atomic mechanism could possibly generate gravitons
« Reply #6 on: 07/10/2013 02:49:56 »
Quote from: Phractality
I could be suspended if I expound any further.
That's quite an exageration, isn't it? People don't get suspended for such things. They are asked to move it to the new theories forum, that's all. If you refuse to do that and keep posting on the subject without any concern for the directions of the moderators then that's a different story altogether.
 

Offline jeffreyH

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Re: What atomic mechanism could possibly generate gravitons
« Reply #7 on: 07/10/2013 05:29:08 »
Quote from: jeffreyH
If gravitons are generated by mass then how?
Nobody knows. It's all speculation at this point. There is no theory of quantum gravity at this point so it remains speculation. But when it comes the answer will be found in elementary particle physics. The electromagnetic interaction is mediated by the exchange of photons. It is thought that something similar would happen with gravitons.

Quote from: jeffreyH
The nobel gas charge I am assuming to be neutral. Is this correct?
I wish I could tell you but I have no idea what a ďnobel gas chargeĒ is and what itís relatioinship to being charged or uncharged is.

Quote from: jeffreyH
I have found a correlation between solid state matter and gravitation. Not that it effects gravitation but that solids adhere more to a mass than gases or liquids. Common sense you may think. In view of the fact that helium gas lies below solid hydrogen at low temperatures and high pressures then the structure of a noble gas can tell us something important about gravitation.

Solids are made by atoms with incomplete electron shells but i can find no good reason for graviton emission because of this effect. It has to account for both molecular mass and atomic mass as seen with helium.

What is it about solidification that is so important to the properties of gravitation.
Atomic physics cannot tell you anything about gravitons. In fact quantum mechanics canít either. Itís only particle physics that can do that. And since Iím not an expert on particle physics Iíll shut up now. :)

Hi Pete

Nobel gas charges. One answer.

"Independent atomistic computer simulations indicate that noble gases can be considered as species of 'zero charge' incorporated at crystal lattice sites."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12802331
 

Offline jeffreyH

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Re: What atomic mechanism could possibly generate gravitons
« Reply #8 on: 07/10/2013 06:00:12 »
Helium may be the clue after all.

The Superfluid Universe
http://arxiv.org/abs/1004.0597
 

Offline CliffordK

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Re: What atomic mechanism could possibly generate gravitons
« Reply #9 on: 07/10/2013 06:30:41 »
People compare the theoretical gravitons to photons and light. 

However, when photons are released, there is a decrease in energy in the material releasing them.
  • radioactive decay
  • cooling (radiative heating)
  • transfer of energy, as in radio transmission
Gravity, however, is a force, but does not seem to produce, consume, or transfer energy.

Necessarily, say in a binary system, where would the energy transfer be? 
If gravity is in all directions, is it still a transfer between two objects?

Anyway, this would seem to indicate that whatever gravity is, it is very different from light and photons.
 

Offline evan_au

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Re: What atomic mechanism could possibly generate gravitons
« Reply #10 on: 07/10/2013 10:31:06 »
Quote
Necessarily, say in a binary system, where would the energy transfer be?

The electrical interaction of two charged particles causes electricromagnetic energy to be radiated out into space.
To detect electromagnetic radiation, you need two charges.

In the binary pulsar case, the gravitational interaction causes the neutron stars to move closer together. The gravitational energy is radiated out into space.
To detect gravitational waves, you need two masses. However, as shown by many years of searching for gravitational waves, the gravitational waves exert a miniscule force on mass across interstellar distances.

To extract a usable amount of energy from gravity waves, you would probably need to be fairly close to two merging black holes. Unfortunately, it takes an enormous amount of energy to get close to a black hole, so I don't see this being a usable source of energy in the near future. 
 

Offline jeffreyH

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Re: What atomic mechanism could possibly generate gravitons
« Reply #11 on: 07/10/2013 11:07:58 »
People compare the theoretical gravitons to photons and light. 

However, when photons are released, there is a decrease in energy in the material releasing them.
  • radioactive decay
  • cooling (radiative heating)
  • transfer of energy, as in radio transmission
Gravity, however, is a force, but does not seem to produce, consume, or transfer energy.

Necessarily, say in a binary system, where would the energy transfer be? 
If gravity is in all directions, is it still a transfer between two objects?

Anyway, this would seem to indicate that whatever gravity is, it is very different from light and photons.

Doesn't this suggest that gravitation is a force generated outside of the mass it acts on. I have found no easy way to link gravitation internally to the atoms or molecules it effects. If what ever it is adheres to mass in some way it could be contracting the spacetime around it.
« Last Edit: 07/10/2013 11:09:35 by jeffreyH »
 

Offline jeffreyH

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Re: What atomic mechanism could possibly generate gravitons
« Reply #12 on: 07/10/2013 11:51:26 »
Quote
Necessarily, say in a binary system, where would the energy transfer be?

The electrical interaction of two charged particles causes electricromagnetic energy to be radiated out into space.
To detect electromagnetic radiation, you need two charges.

In the binary pulsar case, the gravitational interaction causes the neutron stars to move closer together. The gravitational energy is radiated out into space.
To detect gravitational waves, you need two masses. However, as shown by many years of searching for gravitational waves, the gravitational waves exert a miniscule force on mass across interstellar distances.

To extract a usable amount of energy from gravity waves, you would probably need to be fairly close to two merging black holes. Unfortunately, it takes an enormous amount of energy to get close to a black hole, so I don't see this being a usable source of energy in the near future.

I think the inverse square nature of the field will cause problems with detection into the foreseeable future. I did think an exchange mechanism produced the effect but now I have doubts.
 

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Re: What atomic mechanism could possibly generate gravitons
« Reply #12 on: 07/10/2013 11:51:26 »

 

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