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Author Topic: where did matter come from?  (Read 18023 times)

Offline Pmb

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Re: where did matter come from?
« Reply #75 on: 20/11/2013 07:12:37 »
Quote from: Supercryptid
I don't personally see the idea of something originating from nothing to be that problematic. If what you start with is a state of true nothingness, then the laws of physics and logic don't exist.
I don't see why not. The laws of physics apply no nothing too. E.g. the total energy of a an empty system is zero and remains that way so that energy is conserved. Maxwell's equations hold good in an empty space even though they're concerned only with empty space with no fields etc.

A universe where nothing happens does obey the laws of physics as far as I'm aware.
 

Offline Supercryptid

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Re: where did matter come from?
« Reply #76 on: 20/11/2013 07:18:23 »
I'm talking about a state of absolute nothingness. No universe, no space, no time.
 

Offline Pmb

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Re: where did matter come from?
« Reply #77 on: 20/11/2013 08:34:47 »
I'm talking about a state of absolute nothingness. No universe, no space, no time.
Yup. And no laws of physics which could be violated. But what does that matter. There;s no reason to assume that such a state ever existed. And even using the word "ever" means that there was a time for it.

So what was the point about this nothingness again anyway?
 

Offline Ophiolite

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Re: where did matter come from?
« Reply #78 on: 20/11/2013 10:46:24 »
I'm talking about a state of absolute nothingness. No universe, no space, no time.
Yup. And no laws of physics which could be violated. But what does that matter. There;s no reason to assume that such a state ever existed. And even using the word "ever" means that there was a time for it.

So what was the point about this nothingness again anyway?
There is no reason to assume that such a state never existed. Therefore it should not be excluded from consideration.
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: where did matter come from?
« Reply #79 on: 20/11/2013 14:28:05 »
I don't see how 'absolute nothingness' can exist (as it's the negation of existence), let alone be a 'state'. Can someone explain what they mean by it?
 

Offline Supercryptid

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Re: where did matter come from?
« Reply #80 on: 20/11/2013 16:42:17 »
I won't push the issue, as it is basically philosophical and I've been locking swords with DonQuichotte over such things so much lately that I'd rather not have another unprovable argument on my hands.
 

Offline PmbPhy

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Re: where did matter come from?
« Reply #81 on: 28/02/2015 00:14:19 »
Quote from: Ophiolite
There is no reason to assume that such a state never existed. Therefore it should not be excluded from consideration.
That's just poor logic. The same thing could be said about fairies, witches, ghosts and flying saucers. In the context in which I made the statement in which this is a response, things that aren't observed in that sense should never be considered. There's an infinite about of things which never been observed and are not considered for that reason.
 

Offline PmbPhy

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Re: where did matter come from?
« Reply #82 on: 28/02/2015 00:19:04 »
Quote from: webplodder
The point is, a particle does not become a particle until observed.
There's no justification for that. In quantum mechanics particles are still particles regardless of whether we know where they are or not. When we observe them they then have a position. But before that they're still particles.

Quote from: webplodder
Before observation a "particle" is just a potential ...
Not only incorrect but meaningless. There's no meaning to "is just a potential" in the context you use it here.

Quote from: webplodder
It is often said that ...
Something isn't more true merely because of the number of times it's been said.
 

Offline PmbPhy

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Re: where did matter come from?
« Reply #83 on: 28/02/2015 00:33:01 »
Quote from: dlorde
Interesting stuff, thanks for that. So it's correct to say that a nuclear explosion converts a tiny amount of matter to energy, but not that it converts mass to energy.
I made a mistake on this point. Nothing can be converted into energy and energy cannot be converted into something else. I can't recall what I was thinking when I said otherwise. My apologies.

I have an article on this point from the American Journal of Physics written by a colleague of mine. Would you like to read it?
 

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Re: where did matter come from?
« Reply #83 on: 28/02/2015 00:33:01 »

 

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