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Author Topic: Re: How did life begin on earth?  (Read 11959 times)

Offline RD

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Re: Re: How did life begin on earth?
« Reply #75 on: 08/11/2013 20:49:04 »
See  what i said earlier regarding the emergent property phenomena on the consciousness thread .

In my previous post above I provided evidence that emergent properties do occur. 
If I am incorrect could you not provide a concise refutation* of emergence here ?,
rather than refer readers to your (currently) 32 page consciousness thread.

[ * refutation requires evidence, not handwaving or ad hominem attacks ]
« Last Edit: 08/11/2013 20:55:22 by RD »
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: Re: How did life begin on earth?
« Reply #76 on: 09/11/2013 18:39:55 »
See  what i said earlier regarding the emergent property phenomena on the consciousness thread .

In my previous post above I provided evidence that emergent properties do occur. 
If I am incorrect could you not provide a concise refutation* of emergence here ?,
rather than refer readers to your (currently) 32 page consciousness thread.

[ * refutation requires evidence, not handwaving or ad hominem attacks ]
[/quote]

See my reply to you on the subject on the consciousness thread :
Emergent property phenomena do occur only at the biological, physical or material levels .
In the case of consciousness that's not a biological process , the biggest mistake ever made in science is that one does confuse the image of the process of consciousness in the physical brain ,with the cause of the process.
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: Re: How did life begin on earth?
« Reply #77 on: 10/11/2013 18:11:03 »
See  what i said earlier regarding the emergent property phenomena on the consciousness thread .

In my previous post above I provided evidence that emergent properties do occur. 
If I am incorrect could you not provide a concise refutation* of emergence here ?,
rather than refer readers to your (currently) 32 page consciousness thread.

[ * refutation requires evidence, not handwaving or ad hominem attacks ]
[/quote]

Once again , you are confusing the image of the process with the cause of the process ,in relation to the old-new mind-body issue + emergent phenomena do occur only at the biological, material physical levels , and they cannot give rise to the mental or to the non-physical that's entirely different in its kind , not just in its genre , from its alleged biological original processes that did allegedly gave rise to it .

Plus :

It all comes down to the following  :
All the malaise at the very heart of science can be summarised by this lethal error that has been made in all sciences and elsewhere , thanks to materialism :
Reality as a whole is just material or physical .
As long as all sciences will continue looking at reality just through one eye , or rather through just the materialist key hole version of reality , as long as all sciences thus will continue to look at reality as a whole just via one eye , the materialist one , while assuming that the other eye is non-existent , then , all sciences will just give us a distortion of reality as a whole .
In short :
Reality as a whole is not just material or physical, as the false materialist mainstream 'scientific world view " has been assuming it to be for so long now .

So, when all sciences will start including the mental side of reality which they have been missing ,or which they have been reducing to just the physical or material , well, then and only then , all sciences might be able to reveal some more deeper and more fundamental forms of causation that might be underlying the laws of physics themselves , who knows ?

Then, all sciences will see reality as a whole , life in general , human language , consciousness ,evolution , and the rest from much wider angles, via science's both eyes , so to speak thus  :
Even evolution itself  cannot be just biological or physical material as a result , the same goes for the origins of life ,its evolution and emergence  ,the same goes for  the origins of human language....and the rest .
 

Offline Ophiolite

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Re: Re: How did life begin on earth?
« Reply #78 on: 20/11/2013 10:09:14 »
Once again , you are confusing the image of the process with the cause of the process ,in relation to the old-new mind-body issue + emergent phenomena do occur only at the biological, material physical levels , and they cannot give rise to the mental or to the non-physical that's entirely different in its kind , not just in its genre , from its alleged biological original processes that did allegedly gave rise to it .
You are making an assertion. Making an assertion is not evidence.

RD specifically asked for evidence to support your refutation. Simply repeating your assertion does not constitute evidence. It is only an opinion, and a highly questionable opinion.

Will you now provide evidence to support your assertion, or concede that what you are talking about is not science?
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: Re: How did life begin on earth?
« Reply #79 on: 20/11/2013 14:24:52 »
Will you now provide evidence to support your assertion, or concede that what you are talking about is not science?
I think you'll find that Don's modus operandi is mostly repeated assertion, bluster, and ad-hominems. I and others have repeatedly asked him for evidence or plausible argument to support his assertions in other threads, but none have been given.
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: Re: How did life begin on earth?
« Reply #80 on: 20/11/2013 17:03:03 »
Once again , you are confusing the image of the process with the cause of the process ,in relation to the old-new mind-body issue + emergent phenomena do occur only at the biological, material physical levels , and they cannot give rise to the mental or to the non-physical that's entirely different in its kind , not just in its genre , from its alleged biological original processes that did allegedly gave rise to it .
You are making an assertion. Making an assertion is not evidence.

RD specifically asked for evidence to support your refutation. Simply repeating your assertion does not constitute evidence. It is only an opinion, and a highly questionable opinion.

Will you now provide evidence to support your assertion, or concede that what you are talking about is not science?
[/quote]

The Biggest Error Ever Made in the Name of Science:

The image of the process gets confused with the cause of the process:

When you do see lightening , for example , in the sky : that's just its image , not it cause , obviously , the same goes for brain and mind, as explained here below  :


It goes without saying that consciousness is self-evidently non-physical as we all experience it to be , so, that materialist inexplicable magical "emergence " trick performance ,regarding the nature or origins of consciousness is just an extension of the false materialist conception of nature that "sees " reality as a whole as being  just material or physical, including consciousness thus :

It goes without saying also that the materialist reductionist naturalist conception of nature is false , simply because reality as a whole cannot be just physical or material, and hence the materialist mainstream "scientific world view " is also false .

Do the maths then ,so to speak .
« Last Edit: 20/11/2013 17:12:13 by DonQuichotte »
 

Offline Ophiolite

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Re: How did life begin on earth?
« Reply #81 on: 20/11/2013 19:41:42 »
So, in summary you believe that evidence means hand-waving, word salad, ambiguity and further unfounded assertions. I'll afford you one more opportunity to provide evidence. Here, this may help.

Evidence is not a belief.

Evidence is not a desire.

Evidence is not an opinion.

Evidence is not dogma.

Evidence is not a suspicion.

Evidence is not writings of undemonstrated provenance.

Evidence is not a passionately declared statement.

Evidence is not an idea.

Evidence is not what someone told you in a pub.

Evidence is not a You-Tube video.

Evidence is not a majority opinion.

Evidence is not a minority opinion.

Evidence is measurable, repeatable observation consistent with a hypothesis.
So what is your evidence? Remember, it must take heed of the above.
 

Offline DonQuichotte

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Re: How did life begin on earth?
« Reply #82 on: 20/11/2013 19:56:32 »
So, in summary you believe that evidence means hand-waving, word salad, ambiguity and further unfounded assertions. I'll afford you one more opportunity to provide evidence. Here, this may help.

Evidence is not a belief.

Evidence is not a desire.

Evidence is not an opinion.

Evidence is not dogma.

Evidence is not a suspicion.

Evidence is not writings of undemonstrated provenance.

Evidence is not a passionately declared statement.

Evidence is not an idea.

Evidence is not what someone told you in a pub.

Evidence is not a You-Tube video.

Evidence is not a majority opinion.

Evidence is not a minority opinion.

Evidence is measurable, repeatable observation consistent with a hypothesis.
So what is your evidence? Remember, it must take heed of the above.
[/quote]

Can't you read ?

All sciences have been assuming that the materialist secular religion  in science  is "true and  scientific " , that the false materialist conception of nature, the materialist world view or philosophy  is "true  and scientific  " : all sciences have been ruled by the materialist dogmatic belief system ,since the 19th century at least .

All sciences thus must reject their false materialist meta-paradigm ,and hence their false materialist mainstream 'scientific world view " , if they wanna be less dogmatic and more scientific,if they wanna be able to progress ,if they wanna be able to become  relatively ....free ,if they wanna deserve fully to be called ...sciences  .

You will have to throw most of your presumed "scientific " knowledge to the garbage , that's been just materialist ...crap, that's been just materialist false belief assumptions .

Congrat ...and condolences .
 

Offline Ophiolite

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Re: How did life begin on earth?
« Reply #83 on: 21/11/2013 12:28:36 »
I can certainly read, though you continue to provide evidence that you may be challenged in this skill.

You have not provided any evidence to support what you say. You continue to mouth opinions. As long as you continue this agenda driven preaching there is little point in further discussion.
 

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Re: How did life begin on earth?
« Reply #83 on: 21/11/2013 12:28:36 »

 

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