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Author Topic: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?  (Read 233710 times)

Offline jeg29

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Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #50 on: 19/11/2006 08:42:33 »
Iko, I'm realativly new to the ask and answer boards. I'm wondering could you give me a bit of a "Bio" on your self since I see your name so often. Also Neilip, Whats your story?
 

Offline iko

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Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #51 on: 19/11/2006 09:03:28 »
Thank you for participating GBSB,

of course I don't agree with you:

quote:

"At this time, any case of cure of leukemia can be attributed only to spontaneous regression."


Talking about childhood leukemia, more than half of the patients are cured thanks to the treatment protocols empirically established in the last 50 years.
These protocols are tough and highly toxic but they do work.
Most parents who tested it on their skin would agree altogether.

Spontaneous regressions are extremely rare (but they are reported -even recently- in the medical literature).  Unfortunately they are temporary or incomplete in too many cases.

Studying spontaneous regressions -in my opinion- might be frustrating: they are extremely rare, you cannot recognize them because all patients get treated (fortunately) and in those very patients the 'cause' might have been removed in the meantime.
Nevertheless, studying carefully those rare and so precious  reported cases you could get some good ideas, hints for further research on the multiple factors involved...then you could do new research on affected patients (Vitamin D deficiency?).

quote:

"Till this time, there is no any knowledge of how prevent or cure leukemia."


Prevention, protection from prolonged cod liver use (over one year)...
did you read the "Shanghai report" at the beginning of this topic?
The 1988 report is correct and statistically sound.
Any specific comment?

If any nutrient or foodstuff is even suspected
to help in a human ailment, it should be given
liberally to the patients for several reasons:

- Apart from grapefruit juice (!!!), nutrients in normal doses, i.e. one type of food instead of another one, do not interfere with most of the drugs.

- Scientific confirmation will take time because scientific research itself is concentrated somewhere else for obvious reasons (and in a few years it will produce results good enough to further improve today's standard treatment protocols).

- If a nutrient takes time to help your body, it will take longer observations to prove it by the current scientific research.

- Enthusiasm and resources for this type of studies are lacking:
  no interest, no financial support, no authorities
  like the late 2xNobel laureate Linus Pauling.

quote:

No name of the “Doctor” or name of the place or date or anything that can prove validity of this claim!


It is correct, but what a desperate parent would think about it?

You seem to have missed my point:

unfortunately..."I learned English from a book!"  ;D [:o)]
      citation from: Manuel (Fawlty Towers -BBC)

Take care

ikod

 


« Last Edit: 04/04/2007 21:26:44 by iko »
 

Offline iko

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Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #52 on: 19/11/2006 16:00:42 »
Iko, I'm realativly new to the ask and answer boards. I'm wondering could you give me a bit of a "Bio" on your self since I see your name so often. Also Neilep, Whats your story?

Hi jeg29!
welcome to this forum (I just started last August)
Quick "Bio" of India Kilo Oscar:

- d.b.1953 (Turin, North of Italy) high-school "classical" studies
  + interests in biology and practical electronics.
- Married with Karin, we have two boys, Marco 22 and Roby 20.
- MD in 1978 + specializing Pediatrics + Transfusion (later on).
- Postgraduate 1979-81 in leukemia research in London(UK).
  Project on differentiation/growth 'in vitro' of leukemic cells.
- since 1984 full position at the Transfusion Service, Children's
  Hospital in Turin.
  Working on some practical aspects of stem cell grafting in
  ped.patients (apheresis: collection of circulating stem cells).

...the shortest c.v. in history! Further info available on request.

iko is a nickname from Enrico (easier on keyboard) turned into ikod from "cod liver oil maniac",
the battlefield name I assume I have gained around here...

Aloha from Waikoloa Turin Torino 
« Last Edit: 21/11/2006 00:31:33 by iko »
 

Offline GBSB

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Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #53 on: 20/11/2006 15:57:35 »
Quote
Posted by iko
19/11/2006
Prevention, protection from prolonged cod liver use (over one year)...
did you read the "Shanghai report" at the beginning of this topic?
The 1988 report is correct and statistically sound.
Any comment?

I’d read every your post on this forum. I find most of your posts interesting; some of them are mind opening.
But, I was disappointed that you posted this link. http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache:GztTWKxLt78J:www.usaplaza.com/scripts/wcom_producttree.asp%3FStoreID%3D1340%26ProductID%3D48398+%22sesame+butter%22+leukemia&hl=it&gl=it&ct=clnk&cd=1

Quote
Posted by iko
12/08/2006
…In 1988 a group of epidemiologists analyze data related to children suffering from different types of leukemia in Shanghai.   Data from a similar group of healthy children are used as reference control. They surprisingly find a significantly lower incidence of leukemia in children taking cod liver oil for more than one year.
A scientific report is sent to a widely known medical journal (Cancer), peer-reviewed, accepted and published after a few weeks.
Strangely enough, a possible therapeutic effect of cod liver oil administration to leukemic children is not even mentioned by the Authors.


How significantly is it, we can’t see from this report (the “Shanghai report”).
How we do know, that if children take tablespoon of honey every day, that incidence of leukemia will be lower than if they take cod liver oil.

It is long time known that cod liver oil and sesames seed are good for human’s health. I do not have problem to accept that claim. It is proven through decade of human’s experience and observation.

I have problem to accept that cod liver oil or sesame seed alone have protective role against leukemia.
I think that diet approach in understanding cause of illnesses has reached own limit long time ago.

It is necessary to find “missing link” between nutrition and physical activity on one side and health and illnesses on the other side.

Quote
Posted by iko
09/08/2006
that multiple factors responsible for human leukemia are probably in the environment.

That is what I find interesting to discus.
Maybe it is possible to discovery some another factor (or factors) that is far more important in prevention and cure of leukemia than cod liver oil or sesame seed.

Luka Tunjic
 

Offline iko

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Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #54 on: 20/11/2006 23:50:25 »
Hi Luka.
thanks for appreciating my efforts and for the discussion.
It helps me to explain better the point in this topic.
I'll reply shortly to your post, step by step:

quote:

I’d read every your post on this forum. I find most of your posts interesting; some of them are mind opening.
But, I was disappointed that you posted this link. http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache:GztTWKxLt78J:www.usaplaza.com/scripts/wcom_producttree.asp%3FStoreID%3D1340%26ProductID%3D48398+%22sesame+butter%22+leukemia&hl=it&gl=it&ct=clnk&cd=1



Sorry if the sesame butter story comes out from a commercial link, I had to report it anyway...you cannot find it anywhere else.  A scam? A real story? I leave it open.
I do not even remember how, but I found it years ago.  It was easy to check on PubMed and find a "scoop", one recent positive 'in vitro' result for sesaminol against a leukemic lymphoblastic cell-line.
It may be a promising result, believe me.
In 1980, like other groups years before, we worked on retinoic acid versus a promyelocytic cell-line (HLA-60): the bad cells stopped dividing and became mature white cells in 5days.  That miracle took 10-15 years to reach the 'real' patients.  These days a vitamin A derivative (retinoid) is in the standard treatment for promyelocytic leukemia (AML-M3).
So the story of the doctor in the Midwest may be just fantasy, but the japanese report (actually there are two papers) is real and scientifically correct.
A parent usually needs more hope, and tends to take into account even those 'fantasies'...
 

How significantly is it, we can’t see from this report (the “Shanghai report”).
How we do know, that if children take tablespoon of honey every day, that incidence of leukemia will be lower than if they take cod liver oil.


I gave instructions to check that abstract: did you reach it? We'll do it together later on.
Sorry Luka, no honey, no ascorbic acid, no aloe whatsoever.  They may work, I don't know.
I certainly know that the only scientific report on a positive effect of a nutrient, or nutritional supplement if you like, capable of reducing incidence of childhood leukemia to half or 1/3 is the 1988 paper from Shanghai published in Cancer.  I've searched around, believe me...and I am not a scientist, but I've been in this field for a long time.
Distinguished journal, well-done study, statistically sound.

We really have to 'codcentrate' on one thing.


I think that diet approach in understanding cause of illnesses has reached own limit long time ago.
It is necessary to find “missing link” between nutrition and physical activity on one side and health and illnesses on the other side.


To speculate about the possible causes of leukemia is not the aim of this topic: I suggested to read Mel Greaves's hypothesis (there are several papers about it). Vitamin D deficiency may represent one of the many  "missing links" (personal opinion), but still we are not in a position to do much about it.

This is no chat or fantasy.
I am concerned as a parent.
I am serious and I feel I carry a sort of responsability about it.

A bit of help (cod liver oil) together with standard treatments could improve,
starting tomorrow, the quality of life and may be (fingers crossed) even survival...

...one percent? 5 percent? I do not care much:
just one kid who feels a bit stronger and
grows up properly in spite of chemo would be enough.

I do not want to be alone in reminding one of the kids to take his 'cod'.

The discussion here should be on how to let those parents know what nobody told them before.
asap.

ikod

Post Scriptum:

  Actually I don't exactly think I am the only parent reminding 'cod': the Shanghai report has been cited around, even in the "Cod liver oil - number one superfood" commercial website.
Knowing the amount of adrenalin you get in the endless months following a diagnosis of childhood leukemia,
I'm pretty sure that some other parent has grabbed this information and is probably doing the same thing.


  Let's be a bit more positive about medical progress:

maybe a few open-minded consultant hematologists around the world are recommending every day 'cod' to parents of leukemic children. Following the 'Shanghai report' indications or who knows what other mysterious path or fascinating suggestion.  Adopting the old fashioned "ex-adjuvantibus" criteria.
Maybe.




Did anybody search for that basic abstract in PubMed?
It doesn't take much...
Enter PubMed database clicking down here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?DB=pubmed
just write: leukemia and cod liver oil.
then Enter.  and read.
I'll wait.
 


« Last Edit: 22/07/2008 15:09:48 by iko »
 

Offline iko

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Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #55 on: 21/11/2006 10:32:01 »
Please find the abstract of the Shanghai report.
I cannot fit the complete article for copyright problems,
and it wouldn't add much as far as 'cod' is concerned:




A population-based case-control study of childhood leukemia in Shanghai.

Shu XO, Gao YT, Briton LA et al.
Shanghai Cancer Institute, Epidemiology Department, People's Republic of China.

A population-based case-control interview study of 309 childhood leukemia cases and 618 healthy population control children was conducted in urban Shanghai, China. Like some studies in other countries, excess risks for both acute lymphocytic leukemia (ALL) and acute nonlymphocytic leukemia (ANLL) were associated with intrauterine and paternal preconception diagnostic x-ray exposure, and with maternal employment in the chemical and agricultural industries during pregnancy. ANLL was linked to maternal occupational exposure to benzene during pregnancy, whereas both ALL and ANLL were significantly associated with maternal exposure to gasoline and the patient's prior use of chloramphenicol. New findings, previously unsuspected, included an association of ANLL with younger maternal age at menarche (odds ratio [OR] = 4.3; 95% confidence interval (CI) = 1.3-13.9); a protective effect for long-term (greater than 1 year) use of cod liver oil containing vitamins A and D for both ALL (OR = 0.4; 95% CI = 0.2-0.9) and ANLL (OR = 0.3; 95% CI = 0.1-1.0); and excess risks of ANLL among children whose mothers were employed in metal refining and processing (OR = 4.6; 95% CI = 1.3-17.2) and of ALL associated with maternal occupational exposure to pesticides (OR = 3.5; 95% CI = 1.1-11.2). No relationships were found with late maternal age, certain congenital disorders, or familial occurrence, which have been related to childhood leukemia in other studies. In contrast with other reports, an excess of leukemia, primarily ANLL, occurred among second or later-born rather than firstborn children.

Cancer. 1988 Aug 1;62(3):635-44.



http://www.numoonus.com/BizTravel/Shanghai/Skyline.jpg
Population of Shanghai: 1988 - 6million     2006 - 20million
« Last Edit: 12/06/2007 22:04:17 by iko »
 

Offline iko

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Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #56 on: 24/11/2006 08:25:16 »
Shanghai report details from the original full-text pdf: comments and notes.




A population-based case-control study of childhood leukemia in Shanghai.

Shu XO, Gao YT, Briton LA et al.
Shanghai Cancer Institute, Epidemiology Department, People's Republic of China.

Cancer. 1988 Aug 1;62(3):635-44.


Results (Medications use).

...A higher proportion of controls (8%) than cases (4%) reported long-term (>1 year) usage of cod liver oil containing vitamins A and D (OR = 0.3; 95% CI = 0.2-0.7).   Entended use of these vitamins was associated with reduced risk of ALL (OR = 0.4; 95% CI = 0.2-0.9) and ANLL (OR = 0.3; 95% CI = 0.1-1.0).
...

Discussion.

...A protective effect of cod liver oil containing vitamins A and D was suggested by the inverse relation to leukemia risk. Vitamin A and beta-carotene in fruits and vegetables appear to protect against certain epithelial cancers (30).  Retinoids, a vitamin A derivative, have been shown to inhibit carcinogenesis in various model systems, including the proliferation of blast cells from human myelogenous leukemia cell lines (31).
Vitamin D is an important regulator of bone mineral metabolism in humans, and 1,25-dihydroxy vitamin D3 [1,25(OH)2D3], an active metabolite of vitamin D, enhances intestinal calcium transport and thus may protect against colorectal cancer.   Recently, it was shown that 1,25(OH)2D3 also inhibits proliferation of human leukemia and lymphoma cells by inducing bone marrow stem cells to differentiate along the monocyte/macrophage pathway (32).  Thus, experimental data support a protective role for vitamins A and D in leukemia, but further epidemiologic research is needed to evaluate these findings.
...
Key words:

OR = Odds Ratio
CI = Confidence interval
ALL = Acute Lymphocytic Leukemia
ANLL = Acute Non Lymphocytic Leukemia (mainly AML = Acute Myeloid Leukemia)







Comments and annotations:


Quote
...A higher proportion of controls (8%) than cases (4%) reported long-term (>1 year) usage of cod liver oil containing vitamins A and D (OR = 0.3; 95% CI = 0.2-0.7).   Entended use of these vitamins was associated with reduced risk of ALL (OR = 0.4; 95% CI = 0.2-0.9) and ANLL (OR = 0.3; 95% CI = 0.1-1.0).


1) Understatement

We have a problem of result communication here: something really original and important has been serendipitously found, but it is not even reported in the title.
Peer reviewers might have done something about it, so these original findings could have been rescued by many more readers of the journal.
There is no pompous announcement like: "this is the first report in literature", no "major breakthrough" or “new  weapons in our hands"...so these extraordinary data take a risk of flowing unnoticed even by the most ‘affectionate’ readers.
Surprisingly, some results in a table (not shown here) are better than the data reported in the text.
The protective effect is significant for long-term use (>1year) of cod liver oil in ALL, but in the case of ANLL it seems to be present after a shorter period.  ANLL carries a far worse prognosis compared to ALL (see diagram below), so this finding might be tremendously important.


2) Therapeutic effect

Strangely enough, a possible therapeutic effect of cod liver oil administration to leukemic children is not even suggested by the Authors in the discussion.
Long term use (more than one year) to reach the protective effect would be feasible in leukemia: most treatment protocols last more than one year and in the 5 years following diagnosis the risk of disease relapse is high.
Months or years after stopping chemotherapy, when children look perfectly healthy, go back to school and seem to have a normal life again, the disease may come back, like a bolt out of the blue.
This is called leukemia RELAPSE.
There is no reason to think that once you have got a remission of leukemia by standard treatment you cannot benefit from a cod liver oil protective effect against a relapse of leukemia in the following crucial 5-7 years (see diagram below).

The etiology of the disease is still unknown, so any assumption will be speculative until put into practice and properly tested.

During the period of 'maintenance' therapy -that lasts several months- the patients are normal again, no sign of disease, normal bone marrow and so on.


In poor and underdeveloped countries, for example, where proper treatment protocols and bone marrow transplant programs seem unaffordable by most patients, an unexpensive and safe nutrient could be tested right away at very low costs.

Cod liver oil is considered a nutritional supplement, not a proper drug: non-toxic at normal dosages, it does not interfere with most of the commonly used pharmaceutical products.  It should be defined 'historically safe', having been extensively used since the beginning of the last century for various ailments (rickets, tuberculosis, etc.).



Quote
...Vitamin A and beta-carotene in fruits and vegetables appear to protect against certain epithelial cancers (30).  Retinoids, a vitamin A derivative, have been shown to inhibit carcinogenesis in various model systems, including the proliferation of blast cells from human myelogenous leukemia cell lines (31).


In 1988 retinoids were still experimental drugs. Developed after the extraordinary results obtained ten years before with Vitamin A and a human promyelocytic leukemia cell-line (HL-60), today they play a major role in the successful treatment of patients with promyelocytic leukemia (AML M3).



Quote
Vitamin D is an important regulator of bone mineral metabolism in humans, and 1,25-dihydroxy vitamin D3 [1,25(OH)2D3], an active metabolite of vitamin D, enhances intestinal calcium transport and thus may protect against colorectal cancer.   Recently, it was shown that 1,25(OH)2D3 also inhibits proliferation of human leukemia and lymphoma cells by inducing bone marrow stem cells to differentiate along the monocyte/macrophage pathway (32).







...work in progress







from:  Target Leukaemia  website: The Association of British Pharmaceutical Industry
http://www.abpi.org.uk/publications/publication_details/targetLeukaemia/tl-questions.asp


Click on the Image
« Last Edit: 08/07/2011 09:10:57 by iko »
 

Offline iko

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Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #57 on: 07/12/2006 20:35:13 »
Quackery...revisited in 2006!

...this is what you get crossing
"quackery" and "cod liver oil" on Google Images...


...Near the beginning of TB treatment in sanatoria, it became known that the sun helped to kill TB bacteria (see heliotherapy). When the Sun's UV rays hit human skin, vitamin D is produced. Naturally, when cod fish were found to be rich in vitamin D, it followed that their oil was sold as "liquid sunshine" (this was a real advertisement in the Valley Echo, March 1944). Cod Liver Oil is still used in "traditional" medicine today, and as an important dietary supplement, but no real evidence exists that it helps to cure tuberculosis.

http://www.lung.ca/tb/tbhistory/treatment/



...NO real evidence? Let's cross quickly "Tuberculosis and vitamin d" on PubMed database...




Toll-like receptor triggering of a vitamin D-mediated human antimicrobial response.


Liu PT, Stenger S, Li H et al.
In innate immune responses, activation of Toll-like receptors (TLRs) triggers direct antimicrobial activity against intracellular bacteria, which in murine, but not human, monocytes and macrophages is mediated principally by nitric oxide. We report here that TLR activation of human macrophages up-regulated expression of the vitamin D receptor and the vitamin D-1-hydroxylase genes, leading to induction of the antimicrobial peptide cathelicidin and killing of intracellular Mycobacterium tuberculosis. We also observed that sera from African-American individuals, known to have increased susceptibility to tuberculosis, had low 25-hydroxyvitamin D and were inefficient in supporting cathelicidin messenger RNA induction. These data support a link between TLRs and vitamin D-mediated innate immunity and suggest that differences in ability of human populations to produce vitamin D may contribute to susceptibility to microbial infection.

Science. 2006 Mar 24;311(5768):1770-3. Epub 2006 Feb 23.





The effect of vitamin D as supplementary treatment
 in patients with moderately advanced pulmonary tuberculous lesion.

Nursyam EW, Amin Z, Rumended CM.
Dept.Int.Med.University of Indonesia-dr.Cipto Mangunkusumo Hospital, Jakarta.

AIM: to compare the vitamin D group of pulmonary tuberculosis patients with a placebo group in terms of clinical improvement, nutritional status, sputum conversion, and radiological improvement. METHODS: sixty seven tuberculosis patient visiting the Pulmonary Clinic, of Cipto Mangunkusumo Hospital, Jakarta, from January 1st to August 31st, 2001 were included in this study. The subjects were randomised to receive vitamin D (0.25 mg/day) or placebo in a double blind method, during the 6th initial week of Tb treatment. The rate of sputum conversion, complete blood counts, blood chemistry as well as radiologic examination were evaluated. RESULTS: there were more male patients than females (39:28), 78.7% were in the productive age group, 71.6% had low nutritional status, 62.4% with low education level, and 67.2% with low income. One hundred percent of the vitamin D group and only 76.7% of the placebo group had sputum conversion. This difference is statistically significant (p=0.002). CONCLUSION: the sputum conversion had no correlation with the hemoglobin level, blood clotting time, calcium level, lymphocyte count, age, sex, and nutritional status. There were more subjects with radiological improvement in the vitamin D group.

Acta Med Indones. 2006 Jan-Mar;38(1):3-5.




Prevalence and associations of vitamin D deficiency in foreign-born persons with tuberculosis in London.

Ustianowski A, Shaffer R, Collin S, Wilkinson RJ, Davidson RN.
Dept.Infect.Trop.Med.- Northwick Park Hospital, Harrow, Middlesex HA1 3UJ, UK. ustianowski@doctors.org.uk

OBJECTIVES: The incidence of tuberculosis (TB) is high amongst foreign-born persons resident in developed countries. Vitamin D is important in the host defence against TB in vitro and deficiency may be an acquired risk factor for this disease. We aimed to determine the incidence and associations of vitamin D deficiency in TB patients diagnosed at an infectious diseases unit in London, UK. METHODS: Case-note analysis of 210 unselected patients diagnosed with TB who had plasma vitamin D (25(OH)D3) levels routinely measured. Prevalence of 25(OH)D3 deficiency and its relationship to ethnic origin, religion, site of TB, sex, age, duration in the UK, month of 25(OH)D3 estimation and TB diagnosis were determined. RESULTS: Of 210 patients 76% were 25(OH)D3 deficient and 56% had undetectable levels. 70/82 Indian, 24/28 East African Asian, 29/34 Somali, 14/19 Pakistani and Afghani, 16/22 Sri Lankan and 2/6 other African patients were deficient (with 58, 17, 23, 9, 6 and 1 having undetectable levels, respectively). Only 0/6 white Europeans and 1/8 Chinese/South East Asians had low plasma 25(OH)D3 levels. Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs all had equivalent rates of deficiency though Hindus were more likely to have undetectable levels (odds ratio 1.87, 95% CI 1.27-2.76). There was no significant association between 25(OH)D3 level and site of TB or duration of residence in the UK. There was no apparent seasonal variation in either TB diagnosis or 25(OH)D3 level. CONCLUSIONS: 25(OH)D3 deficiency commonly associates with TB among all ethnic groups apart from white Europeans, and Chinese/South East Asians. Our data support a lack of sunlight exposure and potentially a vegetarian diet as contributors to this deficiency.

J Infect. 2005 Jun;50(5):432-7.





Those nurses and doctors should be proud and rest in peace.
They gave cod liver oil to their TB patients for years
without any controlled study or scientific evidence,
wisely adopting the old "ex-adjuvantibus" criteria.
They did just the right thing to do in those days
when treatments available were unsatisfactory
and only some patients recovered completely over the years.
Evidence is slowly coming out, more than fifty years later.


ikod



Before the availability of drugs that successfully cured the body of tubercular infections, a widely accepted treatment for non-pulmonary tuberculosis was sunbathing. The sun had sometimes been blamed for increased activity in tubercular infection of the lungs and was therefore not used to treat this form of tuberculosis. However, the Sun offered several curative properties to those suffering from other types of tuberculosis. Sun treatment was used in the treatment of tuberculosis of the glands, bones, joints, peritoneum, skin, eyes, genito-urinary tract, and others.

There were several reasons for the prescription of sun treatment to tuberculosis patients. First of all, the sun acts as a bactericide, killing the Tubercular bacillus organisms that cause the disease. Exposure to moderately hot temperatures for extended periods of time is sufficient to kill off these bacteria and clear up infections. Furthermore, ergosterol, present in the skin in converted by the sun’s UV rays into vitamin D, which was thought to do further damage to the TB bacilli.
 
Sunlamps like the ones pictured here were often used to replace natural sunlight in sun-therapy, or "heliotherapy" for tuberculosis (ca. 1925).


            

http://www.lung.ca/tb/images/061_sun_lamps.jpg
http://www.mmaonline.net/Publications/MNMed2005/November/Images/sun.gif






"Il sole dona la vita, il sole se la riprende" M.U. Dianzani 1975.

« Last Edit: 02/11/2007 18:51:26 by iko »
 

Offline iko

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Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #58 on: 18/12/2006 18:52:51 »


Messing with synthetic compounds
instead of the natural recipe
may lead to make wrong deductions
and to realize it many years later:



The case against ergocalciferol (vitamin D2) as a vitamin supplement.


Houghton LA, Vieth R.
School of Nutrition and Dietetics, Acadia University, Wolfville, Canada.

Supplemental vitamin D is available in 2 distinct forms: ergocalciferol (vitamin D2) and cholecalciferol (vitamin D3). Pharmacopoeias have officially regarded these 2 forms as equivalent and interchangeable, yet this presumption of equivalence is based on studies of rickets prevention in infants conducted 70 y ago. The emergence of 25-hydroxyvitamin D as a measure of vitamin D status provides an objective, quantitative measure of the biological response to vitamin D administration. As a result, vitamin D3 has proven to be the more potent form of vitamin D in all primate species, including humans. Despite an emerging body of evidence suggesting several plausible explanations for the greater bioefficacy of vitamin D3, the form of vitamin D used in major preparations of prescriptions in North America is vitamin D2. The case that vitamin D2 should no longer be considered equivalent to vitamin D3 is based on differences in their efficacy at raising serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D, diminished binding of vitamin D2 metabolites to vitamin D binding protein in plasma, and a nonphysiologic metabolism and shorter shelf life of vitamin D2. Vitamin D2, or ergocalciferol, should not be regarded as a nutrient suitable for supplementation or fortification.

Am J Clin Nutr. 2006 Oct;84(4):694-7.





Comment: (from a reknown website)
http://www.mercola.com/2006/oct/26/beware-of-most-prescription-vitamin-d-supplements.htm

...Supplemental vitamin D comes in two forms: ergocalciferol (vitamin D2) and cholecalciferol (vitamin D3).
They have generally been regarded as equivalent and interchangeable, but that notion is based on studies of rickets prevention in infants conducted seven decades ago.
Recent studies have shown that  vitamin D3 is a more potent form of vitamin D. Vitamin D2 has a shorter shelf life, and its metabolites bind with protein poorly, making it less effective. One unit of cod liver oil (containing vitamin D3) has been shown to be as effective as four units of Viosterol (a medicinal preparation of vitamin D2).
However, the form of vitamin D used in prescriptions in North America is almost invariably vitamin D2.
...


from Dr. Mercola's notes:

Basically there are two types of oral vitamin D supplements. The natural ones are D3, and they contain the same vitamin D your body makes when exposed to sunshine. The synthetic ones are vitamin D2, which are sometimes called ergocalciferol.
Once either form of the vitamin is in your body, it needs to be converted to a more active form. Vitamin D3 is converted 500 percent faster than vitamin D2. Interestingly, it was previously thought that the kidney exclusively performed this function, as least that is what I was taught in med school.
However, in 1998 Dr. Michael Hollick, the person who discovered activated vitamin D, showed that many other cells in your body can make this conversion, but they use it themselves, and it is only the kidney that makes enough to distribute to the rest of your body.
While there have been no clinical trials to date demonstrating conclusively that D2 prevents fractures, every clinical trial of D3 has shown it does.
However, nearly all the prescription-based supplements contain synthetic vitamin D2, which was first produced in the 1920s through ultraviolet exposure of foods. The process was patented and licensed to drug companies for use in prescription vitamins. In case you didn't know, the vitamin D that is added to milk is NOT D3 but the highly inferior vitamin D2.
The study linked above concluded that "vitamin D2 should no longer be regarded as a nutrient appropriate for supplementation or fortification of foods."

That being said, optimizing your sun exposure and levels of vitamin D3 may, indeed, be one of the most important physical steps you can take in support of your long-term health. Conventional medicine is finally beginning to get on board the vitamin-D3 bandwagon, using the natural power of sunshine to treat type 2 diabetes, osteoporosis during a woman's pregnancy and even tuberculosis.
It is important to understand that the ideal and STRONGLY preferred method of increasing your vitamin D3 level is through appropriate sun exposure. I really do not advise oral supplements, not even cod liver oil now, UNLESS you can have your blood levels regularly monitored. 
It just is too risky. I have seen too many potentially dangerous elevations of vitamin D levels, including my own, from those that are taking oral supplements.
But when you get your vitamin D from appropriate sun exposure your body can indeed self-regulate and greatly reduce vitamin D production if you don't need it, which makes it very difficult to overdose on vitamin D from sun exposure.




Even taking for granted that omega-3 and retinol were not needed together with vitamin D, the alternative to cod liver oil for leukemic children would be driving them for a hike in the sunshine at least three times a week...for at least 5-7 years after diagnosis.
I'd need a big school-bus and sunny days most of the year. I wouldn't be able to retire right now, and they couldn't miss their classes.
Mission Impossible from my point of view (ask Tom Cruise).

These little patients are tough: they could certainly take a risk of a slight vitamin D intoxication...most of the current treatment protocols are far more toxic.
Moderate use of cod liver oil is harmless, actually good for anybody.
It has always been like that.





ikod






« Last Edit: 23/02/2009 16:12:54 by iko »
 

Offline iko

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Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #59 on: 28/12/2006 14:17:45 »
...little bits from  http://www.vitamindcouncil.com
just a 'basic' website for this topic!
Bits Of Wisdom: Those 'old wives' might be on to something


For many years, the "old wives" have been ridiculed as superstitious know-nothings.
Now science seems about to vindicate them.
The old wives maintained that a dose of cod-liver oil would do a body good.
Many children dreaded it because it tasted so awful. But come the dark days of winter, mothers and grandmothers insisted that all family members should hold their noses and swallow a spoonful of cod-liver oil.
During the past 20 years, this practice has gone the way of the manual typewriter.

Few children get cod-liver oil these days.

Doctors don't recommend it because it seems like such an unscientific relic of the past.

The vitamin D that is abundant in cod-liver oil has numerous health benefits though, especially in the winter. That's because levels of vitamin D frequently drop when people are not exposing their skin to the sun.
Cold, dreary weather and diminished sunlight can create borderline vitamin D deficiency in a surprising number of people. In Boston, 42 percent of people studied had too little vitamin D in winter. In Calgary, Canada, almost no one maintains adequate vitamin D in the winter.

In 2005, a psychiatrist who treated his patients for vitamin D deficiency noticed something odd. Influenza hit hard at the Atascadero State Hospital, a maximum-security psychiatric hospital. His ward was spared, with not a single person catching the flu, even though they had been exposed to the virus just like everyone else. The psychiatrist wondered whether the vitamin D he had prescribed had anything to do with their immunity.
This question led to an interesting review of research and a credible hypothesis.
Studies in the past 70 years hint at a connection between vitamin D and overall immunity.

The active form of vitamin D greatly increases the body's production of a natural infection-fighting chemical called cathelicidin. Cathelicidin seems to help fight off illnesses caused by bacteria, fungi and viruses, including influenza.
This might help explain why people are more susceptible to colds and flu in the winter. If their vitamin D levels drop, so does their production of cathelicidin and their overall resistance to infection.

Vitamin D also appears to have anti-cancer activity. People who get regular sun exposure are less susceptible to common cancers that affect the colon, breast, prostate, ovaries and lungs. Even conditions like multiple sclerosis, arthritis and Type 2 diabetes are less common in people with ample vitamin D levels.

Vitamin D has long been associated with stronger bones, but there is also research showing that it contributes to stronger muscles and fewer falls in the elderly.

The old wives did not have sophisticated scientific tools or methods, but they were skilled observers.

It's fascinating when the scientists supply the explanation behind their wisdom.

...

from:  Winston-Salem Journal, Tuesday, November 28, 2006.

http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ%2FMGArticle%2FWSJ_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1149191909636&path=!living&s=1037645509005



« Last Edit: 23/02/2009 16:14:35 by iko »
 

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Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #60 on: 27/01/2007 15:54:58 »



Vitamin D As Treatment

How much vitamin D should one take if they have cancer? We don't know as the research is far from complete. Although vitamin D may help, it should only be taken in addition to standard cancer treatment. It should not be considered a first, or only, treatment but used in addition to regular chemotherapy or surgery. Oncologists and surgeons work miracles every day. Remember, vitamin D may be toxic in overdose, although one expert recently said, "worrying about vitamin D toxicity is like worrying about drowning when you are dying of thirst". That said, many people think "if a little is good then a lot is better". This is definitely not true about vitamin D.

http://www.vitamindcouncil.com/cancerMain.shtml


...in the meantime, waiting for scientific confirmation, a little bit of 'cod' every day should work just fine. ;)
Take care

ikod
 

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Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #61 on: 27/01/2007 20:21:25 »


Enrico Incarbone MD
(Lucky father of an ALL survivor)


ALL: Acute Lymphoblastic Leukemia (common type: 65-75% alive after 5 years)



To support this one I started a special
"Cod Liver Oil" topic in Complementary Medicine.

You are kindly invited to read and discuss both topics.

iko


Key words: leukemia nutrition vitamin cod liver oil

IKO...I just want to congratulate you on this wonderful thread you have going
 here also my heart felt wishes and joy sent to you for the success of your childs
 survival....may I ask....son ?......daughter ?

Being a daddy of four I can only imagine what you, your child, your family  have been through.

We all take cod liver oil every day...and garlic oil too...I think it does me good !!

What is your opinion on the other fish oils ?..salmon ?...mackerel ?

Hugs the IKO..YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY !!
 

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Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #62 on: 27/01/2007 21:58:17 »
Ahi, Ahi, Ahi, Neilepus! 
You missed my 'story' through hundreds of lines...
I would suggest to clean your scanner lenses!
Here we go:
Quote
My problem is that - sitting here in front of my PC - I am not able to give 'cod' every day to all the leukemic children in the world. I can only manage to remind my 'little' boy (actually he grew up much taller than his older brother) to take his cod in the evening.
More than seven years have past for our family, and eighteen years from the Shanghai report:
it's just about time to move and tell people around.
Thanks to search engines and this www (what-women-want?).
Anyway, I'm not too pessimistic about it.
I think I can make it, and I will succeed in the end.

Roby was 13 in '99, now he is a mature young adult
and studies at the Polytechnic to become an aircraft
engineer and move to Los Angeles...he likes it there!
He grew up taller than his older brother Marco: our
nurses and doctors here at Children's Hospital were
just fantastic.

Thanks for appreciating my efforts and for your support,
but...what do you think about the comparison 'doctors
versus engineers' at the very beginning of the topic,
my novel-essay entitled "The Shanghai report"?

ikodcentrate again!

Take your time...I'll keep in touch.

Thank EWe Iko Sir..
I will need to take time to read and hopefully understand
your thread of cod liver luff !!

In the mean time...lets hope some passing cod liver specialists
dive in and post some comments too..YAYYYYYYYYYY !!
 

Offline iko

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Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #63 on: 27/01/2007 22:09:39 »
I meant to discuss about Evidence Based Medicine or Patient Centered Decisions...with some engineer!

It's about whether to strongly and officially recommend a nontoxic nutrient when data to prove its efficacy are still unconfirmed.
In the case of a disease of unknown cause and poor treatment results (2/3)...unsatisfactory results, or 'suboptimal' if you prefer.

It's Philosophy of Science and practical medicine altogether

ikod  [^]   

We should ask him...

Hyppocrates
 
« Last Edit: 02/05/2007 14:53:22 by iko »
 

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Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #64 on: 28/01/2007 16:17:59 »
(...a previous post about an alternative treatment for human leukemia has been removed by the Author.)  ???


Pure Healing.

It may sound fascinating, but it's just 2words.
Here we are looking for scientific evidence to help
improving today's standard treatments for leukemia.
This topic addresses the use of cod liver oil as a
nutritional supplement, based on weak evidence from
an old (Shanghai-1988) positive epidemiological report.
We are not in a position to suggest any 'new' alternative
and empirical treatment replacing what we have today.
No way. You can find other details reading our previous posts.
I read your website: I must say that the 2 testimonials
concerning leukemia aren't impressive or special cases
(previously treated by orthodox medicine, neither spontaneous
remissions of leukemia would fit).
Over the years positive alternative treatment results have been
reported in medical literature by western doctors.
A recent study concerns green tea in leukemia/lymphoma patients
(Mayo Clin. Rochester).

Regards,

iko
« Last Edit: 25/03/2008 14:59:59 by iko »
 

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Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #65 on: 05/02/2007 17:44:55 »
In the mean time...lets hope some passing cod liver specialists
dive in and post some comments too..YAYYYYYYYYYY !!


I'm afraid that 'codfathers'
(are they still alive anywhere?)
don't seem to hang around this
NKS Forum!

ikod
« Last Edit: 06/02/2007 15:43:28 by iko »
 

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Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #66 on: 11/02/2007 15:27:39 »
This discussion should not meet the same fate as the Shanghai Report.
Zoey
 

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Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #67 on: 11/02/2007 18:24:58 »
Reading an 'ancient' paper
from Zoey (thanks!)... I found
one of the best cod-citations:

Quote

"Cod liver oil is in the forefront of children's remedies.

For long it has been struggling against the scepticism of exact science"


Rosenstern:  Berl. klin. Wchuschr. 47;822, 1910.
 

from:  "The history of cod liver oil as a remedy"
          Ruth A. Guy  M.D.
          Dept. of Pediatrics, Yale University School of Medicine
          Am. J. of diseases of children    26; 112-116, 1923.
« Last Edit: 13/02/2007 10:58:42 by iko »
 

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Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #68 on: 12/02/2007 05:16:02 »
 That's a great quote. I will put it on the wall beneath the picture of my codfather!

Zoey
 

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Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #69 on: 12/02/2007 07:13:47 »
   
        THE CODFATHER
         



   
 

Offline iko

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Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #70 on: 12/02/2007 09:47:31 »
Historical notes from the same
'ancient' paper (Zoey's copy):



...The introduction of cod liver oil into France, which came a few years later than in Germany, is described by Trousseau (10):

Quote
   
   The manner in which M. Bretonneau, of Tours, was induced to give the oil in this disease deserves notice.
He had treated the rachitic child of a rich Dutch merchant with preparations of iodine and other means, for some time, without success.
He was then told by the father that the elder children had previously suffered under the same malady, and had been cured by the cod liver oil, which, in Holland, was a popular remedy.
 Bretonneau gave the same substance to his young patient, and was much struck with the very rapid and successful result which followed.
He commenced making researches with it on other patients, and it was only then that he learnt for the first time what had been written by the German authors on this subject.
He has since given it extensively in rachitis, with the happiest results.
This fact was communicated to the Societe de Medicine de Paris, in 1837, by M. Roche.

  10.   Trousseau:   Clinical Medicine,  Philadelphia  2: 734, 1882.

from:  "The history of cod liver oil as a remedy"
          Ruth A. Guy  M.D.
          Dept. of Pediatrics, Yale University School of Medicine
          Am. J. of diseases of children    26; 112-116, 1923.
« Last Edit: 16/05/2008 22:32:19 by iko »
 

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Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #71 on: 14/02/2007 02:21:15 »
Obviously, it would not be just "vitamin A" or just "vitamin D" or any single component of cod liver oil, but how they were working together to give the results seen in the Shanghai Report. So where can you direct me to look for more information that will be relevant to this discussion? What questions should I be asking, where should I be looking? If there was a report little noticed in Shanghai, there may well be one elsewhere of a similar nature. There are a few places that come to mind for searching.
Zoey
 

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Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #72 on: 14/02/2007 11:13:13 »
Obviously, it would not be just "vitamin A" or just "vitamin D" or any single component of cod liver oil, but how they were working together to give the results seen in the Shanghai Report. So where can you direct me to look for more information that will be relevant to this discussion? What questions should I be asking, where should I be looking? If there was a report little noticed in Shanghai, there may well be one elsewhere of a similar nature. There are a few places that come to mind for searching.
Zoey


I assumed that the 1988 findings are pretty unique.
I was lucky to spot them in a bulk of scientific mess.
It would be exciting to snag a case report with 'cod' in leukemia (I have an unpublished one) but still...
it would not be statistically significant.  Practically useless.

I would like to discuss the most effective way to communicate the 'CLO in leukemia' message to parents and patients, to make 'weak evidence' less neglected, stressing the point of a safe and 'historically tested' nutrient.
Western medicine seems unfortunately stuck in a sort of endless loop between the lack of interest in the natural product and the crucial need to organize long and expensive controlled clinical trials.
A double-blind controlled clinical trial for 'cod' would not be ethical, in my personal opinion.
The 'Placebo Kids' could sue for malpractice, and they could be hundreds.
It would be stupid, basically.

Over the years, properly informed patients will make themselves possible statistical  analysis by following or not this recommendation,
just like aircrafts owners did with red or blue fluid for the hydraulic system.
Following this path, we would be 'only' twenty years late.

In the meantime, thanks to your contribution, we could add little pieces to the puzzle,
just to keep this agonizing topic alive.
Scared parents will find enough information, I hope.

We'll never solve this problem in our libraries.
I really did appreciate the 1923 article and I want to report other bits in this topic.
It gives you a clear picture of the ups and downs of popular remedies in medical literature (and knowledge).
I have to report of another 'missing link': vitamin D deficiency and myelofibrosis (a pre-leukemia condition).
Just for the fun of it.

ikod


Look at this young researcher on the right...
his nephew is gonna solve the mystery.
Maybe.


 
« Last Edit: 04/04/2007 21:08:20 by iko »
 

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Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #73 on: 16/02/2007 01:37:34 »
But wait! Have you checked all the medical libraries in the world? There may be other "Shanhai Reports" on the shelves and maybe others interested in this topic.
 There is one who came to mind  who may well be interested. That is Dr. Matti Tolonen in Finland. I read one of his books on vitamns a few years ago. He was an advisor to the WHO. He turned his focus to nutritional medicine in the 1980s so may not have seen the report. I think he might be interested in it though. I have thought about contacting him because of some of his writing on B12.  Here's a link to a page about him. My sense is he would be interested in COL and leukemia.
Zoey
http://www.biovita.fi/english/tolonen.html
 

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Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
« Reply #74 on: 16/02/2007 11:46:49 »
Thank you Zoey,

Quote
There is one who came to mind  who may well be interested. That is Dr. Matti Tolonen in Finland. I read one of his books on vitamns a few years ago. He was an advisor to the WHO. He turned his focus to nutritional medicine in the 1980s so may not have seen the report.

Good idea.
Many nutrition experts may have missed the Shanghai report.
It was hidden in a widely known journal of oncology, but
hematologists have their specialized leukemia journals.
Cod liver oil was not even cited in the title...and last
but not least, reporting the text-string:
 "containing Vitamins A and D" and never "vitamin D" in the
abstract...they made it unreachable by a simple research
through PubMed with "leukemia and vitamin D".
What a shame.
Even the great TT. Timonen missed it (1999 pers.comm.)
I'll write to Matti Tolonen.
Thanks for your suggestion
Take care

ikod

« Last Edit: 25/02/2007 14:07:58 by iko »
 

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Re: Vitamin D deficiency in Leukemia?
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