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Author Topic: Ammonia from straw...  (Read 7304 times)

Offline ScientificAngel

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Ammonia from straw...
« on: 04/08/2006 17:50:32 »
There are a lot of researchers who say that one ton of ammonia
can be produced from two tons of straw..

Is it correct?

1 litre of liquid ammonia(0.682 kg) containes more than 1 m3 of hydrogen free to utilize in fuel cells to produce mechanical energy with an efficiency about 60-70%...
This would be great because 1 litre of liquid ammonia is energetically 1 litre of gasoline...and one hectaire of wheat would can produce 2-3 thousands litres of liquid ammonia with its straw...











God can give to us 4 new
earth scientifically from Jupiter...
« Last Edit: 04/08/2006 17:52:25 by ScientificAngel »


 

another_someone

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Re: Ammonia from straw...
« Reply #1 on: 04/08/2006 18:59:46 »
I am not aware of ammonia being a direct product of straw, but it can be obtained from urine.(and possibly manure).  Straw can certainly be a substrate for such a reaction, but I am not aware that straw itself can be used as a feedstock for ammonia production (maybe someone will tell me I am incorrect in this).

Even if one does obtain ammonia, from whatever source; you still need energy to extract the hydrogen from the ammonia, and this will have to be offset against any energy you will obtain by oxidising hydrogen to form water (which is the most common way of obtaining energy from hydrogen).

What you will find much easier is obtaining methane from straw, and methane can be fed directly into a fuel cell without the need to extract the hydrogen from it.


George

« Last Edit: 04/08/2006 19:16:52 by another_someone »
 

Offline ScientificAngel

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Re: Ammonia from straw...
« Reply #2 on: 04/08/2006 19:45:45 »
Hydrogen from ammonia needs about 90 kj every three moles of produced hydrogen that contain totally 840 kj.
90 kj is about 10% of the total energy of the produced hydrogen.
One litre of ammonia totally contains 1.34 m3 of hydrogen therefore
1 m3 is surely free...

I know a lot of industries that produce directly ammonia from coal...it's the same process to produce ammonia from straw,
straw to hydrogen and directly hydrogen to ammonia.




God will give 12 new
earth from Jupiter
with 4 little black holes and 4 little suns...!
« Last Edit: 04/08/2006 20:04:29 by ScientificAngel »
 

another_someone

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Re: Ammonia from straw...
« Reply #3 on: 04/08/2006 20:11:35 »
quote:
Originally posted by ScientificAngel
I know a lot of industries that produce directly ammonia from coal...it's the same process to produce ammonia from straw,
straw to hydrogen and directly hydrogen to ammonia.



I am now a little confused.

Coal is carbon (with a few impurities).  Ammonia is a compound of hydrogen and nitrogen.  How do you turn carbon into hydrogen and nitrogen?



George
 

Offline ScientificAngel

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Re: Ammonia from straw...
« Reply #4 on: 04/08/2006 20:25:36 »
Nytrogen is produced from air...

God will give 12 new
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with 4 little black holes and 4 little suns...!
 

another_someone

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Re: Ammonia from straw...
« Reply #5 on: 04/08/2006 22:30:55 »
quote:
Originally posted by ScientificAngel
Nytrogen is produced from air...



And the hydrogen?



George
 

Offline Mjhavok

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Re: Ammonia from straw...
« Reply #6 on: 05/08/2006 00:08:41 »
I am confused. Do you have that atomic modifier device from the doom 3 game? lol.
 

Offline ScientificAngel

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Re: Ammonia from straw...
« Reply #7 on: 05/08/2006 17:37:48 »
quote:
Originally posted by another_someone

quote:
Originally posted by ScientificAngel
Nytrogen is produced from air...



And the hydrogen?



George




[B)]

God will give 12 new
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with 4 little black holes and 4 little suns...!
 

Offline Mjhavok

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Re: Ammonia from straw...
« Reply #8 on: 06/08/2006 03:23:12 »
Still confused.
 

Offline daveshorts

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Re: Ammonia from straw...
« Reply #9 on: 06/08/2006 11:11:25 »
I would guess that the hydrogen comes from water - it usually does in most reactions involving coal. Coal gas, that used to be used for lighting, was made by heating coal with water and consisted of various hydrocarbons, carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide and hydrogen.
 

another_someone

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Re: Ammonia from straw...
« Reply #10 on: 06/08/2006 17:52:05 »
quote:
Originally posted by daveshorts
I would guess that the hydrogen comes from water - it usually does in most reactions involving coal. Coal gas, that used to be used for lighting, was made by heating coal with water and consisted of various hydrocarbons, carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide and hydrogen.



I would have guesses so to – but as a source of energy, one sees here a closed loop (i.e. the beginnings of a design for a perpetual motion machine :)) - one separates hydrogen from water, and then obtains useful work from that hydrogen by recreating the water – but this ofcourse ignores the energy required to extract the hydrogen from the water, which will be at best no less than the energy obtain by recreating the water at the end of the cycle.

Since this started with the belief we had a new source of energy, I was rather wondering if there was another source of hydrogen that did not consume all the energy we would be obtaining by oxidising the hydrogen.

I think the answer is no.



George
 

Offline eric l

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Re: Ammonia from straw...
« Reply #11 on: 06/08/2006 20:27:18 »
How to produce hydrogen from coal ?  It was done in the 1920's through the 1950's by spraying water or steam over glowing coke.  You obained a mixture of hydrogen, carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide.  The carbon dioxide was then aborbed in cold water.  The resulting mixture of hydrogen and carbon monoxide was known as "watergas".  By cooling and condensing, the hydrogen could be separated from the carbon monoxide.
Watergas was used by some industries.  I know of no instance where it replaced the gas obtained by heating coal as the gas supplied to the general public.
 

Offline ScientificAngel

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Re: Ammonia from straw...
« Reply #12 on: 07/08/2006 19:44:51 »
1 kg coal - 1 kg ammonia, energetic efficiency around 40 %.

Ammonia - hydrogen - fuel cells - mechanical energy efficiency is around 50 %

Total efficiency? 20%   GREAT!

But biomass?   barley straw does more than 2 tonnes of ammonia! SUPER GREAT!

[B)][B)]




God will give 12 new
earth from Jupiter
with 4 little black holes and 4 little suns...!
 

Offline ScientificAngel

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Re: Ammonia from straw...
« Reply #13 on: 07/08/2006 21:35:29 »
This is one of the best thing against oil
I have heard.
Coal and biomass against oil!  [B)][B)]



:D

God will give 12 new
earth from Jupiter
with 4 little black holes and 4 little suns...!
 

Offline Mjhavok

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Re: Ammonia from straw...
« Reply #14 on: 09/08/2006 09:21:25 »
What is this

"God will give 12 new
earth from Jupiter
with 4 little black holes and 4 little suns...!"

all about?

Steven
 

Offline ScientificAngel

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Re: Ammonia from straw...
« Reply #15 on: 09/08/2006 11:34:47 »
quote:
Originally posted by Mjhavok

What is this

"God will give 12 new
earth from Jupiter
with 4 little black holes and 4 little suns...!"

all about?

Steven




I suppose you don't like it.
It's not a my problem.
Think about ammonia!...

ALL AGAINST OIL!!!



God will give 12 new
earth from Jupiter
with 4 little black holes and 4 little suns...!
 

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Re: Ammonia from straw...
« Reply #15 on: 09/08/2006 11:34:47 »

 

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