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Author Topic: Marshmallow in space (or a vacuum)  (Read 11123 times)

Offline neilep

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Marshmallow in space (or a vacuum)
« on: 08/08/2006 22:21:16 »
Wifey loves Marshmallows.

I can comfortably predict with a high degree of certainty what will happen when a marshmallow is placed inside her gob !!

..but..in a vacuum ?...is it going to expand with the lack of pressure or is the evacuation of gas  (including what's in the marshmallow) going to make it shrivel it into a marshmallow M & M ?

I don't know...do you ?



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Offline daveshorts

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Re: Marshmallow in space (or a vacuum)
« Reply #1 on: 09/08/2006 01:51:27 »
Basically a marsh mallow is a foam. If you drop the pressure the gas inside will expand and some will leak out. I don't think there is a lot to make the marshmallow collapse agian until you add the air back in...

A nice demo
http://phun.physics.virginia.edu/demos/marshmallow.html

Hmmm I am thinking kitchen(ish) science...
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Marshmallow in space (or a vacuum)
« Reply #2 on: 09/08/2006 02:02:24 »
Thank you Dave,

You can see why it can be initially believed to be expected to shrink as the air is drawn out..akin to squeezing it.

Yes, Kitchen science..YAYYY !!..could you use one of those plastic bag vacuum/sealer things ?..or would you need a stronger force like a vacuum cleaner ?..perhaps one of those small hand held jobbies !

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Offline eric l

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Re: Marshmallow in space (or a vacuum)
« Reply #3 on: 09/08/2006 12:55:38 »
Your marshmallow could shrink back because of the elasticity of the film.  If there is no pressure left inside, the elastic film will shrink back to the initial volume, very much like when you let the air or gas bleed out of a balloon.  You don't have any vaccuum equipent around to test, do you ?
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Marshmallow in space (or a vacuum)
« Reply #4 on: 09/08/2006 13:06:09 »
Thank you Eric.

I wish I did have a bell jar or something but alas no.

Could something be constructed using a jam jar and a valve ?...or would the jam jar be too fragile ?...probably something made by Pyrex perhaps ?



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Offline eric l

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Re: Marshmallow in space (or a vacuum)
« Reply #5 on: 09/08/2006 13:39:45 »
I would not trust a jam jar from a jam I bought in the supermarket.  But you may know the "Weck-jars" our mothers or grandmothers used for home-made preserves. These are made from thick glass, and have a glass cover and flat rubber ring as a joint between them.  Preservation is done by sterilization :  with a kind of spring fixing the lid on top of the jar, the whole is put in a bassin with water, xhich is heated to boiling temperature.  The pressure resulting from heating will find its way out along the flat rubber ring, and on cooling air pressure (or hydrostatic pressure in the bassin) will force the lid more thighly upon the jar, resulting in a partial vaccuum inside the jar.
Of course we will have temperature effects on the marshmellow to deal with, and the relative vaccuum obtained this way will not exceed 1/4 of the atmospheric pressure.  We should try to find some physics class with the right equipment, or some science museum.
 

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Re: Marshmallow in space (or a vacuum)
« Reply #6 on: 09/08/2006 15:36:57 »
quote:
Originally posted by neilep


I wish I did have a bell jar or something but alas no.



What about a "marital aid" type vacuum pump :)[:I]
« Last Edit: 09/08/2006 16:23:45 by ROBERT »
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Marshmallow in space (or a vacuum)
« Reply #7 on: 09/08/2006 15:39:27 »
quote:
Originally posted by ROBERT

quote:
Originally posted by ROBERT

quote:
Originally posted by neilep


I wish I did have a bell jar or something but alas no.



What about a "marital aid" type vacuum pump :)[:I]






It's worn out ![:I]:D[:I]

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Offline Karen W.

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Re: Marshmallow in space (or a vacuum)
« Reply #8 on: 09/08/2006 16:01:13 »
How about my vacuumn sealer, I would love to try this here and send you some lovely science photos of the experiment, tell me what you would like me to do, the steps you would like me to use. I already have the bags, the Sealer and the marshmellows is the rest self explainitory or have I missed something!!!!

Karen
« Last Edit: 09/08/2006 16:02:50 by Karen W. »
 

ROBERT

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Re: Marshmallow in space (or a vacuum)
« Reply #9 on: 09/08/2006 16:27:17 »
quote:
Originally posted by Karen W.

How about my vacuumn sealer, I would love to try this here and send you some lovely science photos of the experiment, tell me what you would like me to do, the steps you would like me to use. I already have the bags, the Sealer and the marshmellows is the rest self explainitory or have I missed something!!!!

Karen



For this demonstration the container around the marshmallows must be rigid, not a floppy bag.
 

Offline Karen W.

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Re: Marshmallow in space (or a vacuum)
« Reply #10 on: 10/08/2006 04:26:03 »
I think I have a vacumn sealable jar that come with my vacuumn sealer, the tube is inserted into the top of lid and then voila! What do you think?

Karen
« Last Edit: 10/08/2006 04:29:11 by Karen W. »
 

Offline Mjhavok

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Re: Marshmallow in space (or a vacuum)
« Reply #11 on: 10/08/2006 11:50:02 »
Not really a fan of marshmallows myself, they taste to artificial :-S.

I like throwing them at people though. lol. j/k

What the hell. I tried to press "/" and the keyboard got confused. It was doing the action of CTRL + F (which opens the find box). Weird.

Steven
 

ROBERT

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Re: Marshmallow in space (or a vacuum)
« Reply #12 on: 10/08/2006 12:10:58 »
quote:
Originally posted by Karen W.

I think I have a vacumn sealable jar that come with my vacuumn sealer, the tube is inserted into the top of lid and then voila! What do you think?

Karen


If the jar is designed to be used with the vacuum pump then it should not implode. I doubt that the degree of vacuum would be as high as with "proper" laboratory vacuum equipment, but the marsh mallows should still expand a little with your kitchen apparatus.
 

Offline eric l

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Re: Marshmallow in space (or a vacuum)
« Reply #13 on: 10/08/2006 13:39:10 »
Karen's sealable jar will do a better job than the Weck jars I suggested.
Anyway, I think I can safely disclose some testing I have done more than 15 years ago, and not with marshmellows but with other foamy structures.
We were working on plastisols (which are, roughly, solutions of PVC in plasticizer), and because the mixing equipment we had at hand was not really adequate for this applications, our mixes were too foamy by far.  So we made a lid for the mixer bucket, and connected it to a vaccuum pump.
Things got tricky :  if we pumped the air out to quickly, the volume increase of the foam would be so radical that some foam would even get into the safety lock before the pump.
But the safety lock had a bleeding valve, so we could regulate the flow, to a degree that for example only 10 % from the air flow came from the sealed bucket, and 90 % from the free atmosphere.
Well, there was a level where we actually had the foam collapsing, but that would take hours.
Anyway, the project was dropped after 3 or 4 months :  our additive could give the extra strenght we promissed, but showed some disadvantages (of which the price was not the least important).
If I transfer this bit of experience to your marshmallows, the behaviour will depend on the speed by which the air pressure around it is lowered.  And I admit there is some speculation in thinking that a marshmallow will behave exactly like a plastisol.
« Last Edit: 10/08/2006 13:40:35 by eric l »
 

Offline Karen W.

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Re: Marshmallow in space (or a vacuum)
« Reply #14 on: 10/08/2006 16:14:25 »
I will try it this weekend!

Karen
 

another_someone

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Re: Marshmallow in space (or a vacuum)
« Reply #15 on: 10/08/2006 19:24:31 »
quote:
Originally posted by Mjhavok
What the hell. I tried to press "/" and the keyboard got confused. It was doing the action of CTRL + F (which opens the find box). Weird.



You haven't got some application that originated from a UNIX environment?

vi and some other UNIX editors use "/" for find.



George
 

Offline daveshorts

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Re: Marshmallow in space (or a vacuum)
« Reply #16 on: 11/08/2006 00:03:34 »
quote:
vi and some other UNIX editors use "/" for find.

So does Firefox - at least in linux anyway, much more convenient that having to press two keys... but I am probably biased.
 

Offline ariel

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Re: Marshmallow in space (or a vacuum)
« Reply #17 on: 11/08/2006 01:08:44 »
wow, i recall doing this experiment in school and it was soooo long ago that i cant remember what happened hahahaha.
so i googled it and found a picture... looks like it expands

heres a random pic i found...


ariel
 

Offline Mjhavok

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Re: Marshmallow in space (or a vacuum)
« Reply #18 on: 11/08/2006 12:58:52 »
quote:
Originally posted by another_someone

quote:
Originally posted by Mjhavok
What the hell. I tried to press "/" and the keyboard got confused. It was doing the action of CTRL + F (which opens the find box). Weird.



You haven't got some application that originated from a UNIX environment?

vi and some other UNIX editors use "/" for find.



George



No I haven't. It was in firefox. I closed and restarted it and it worked fine again. Weird.

Steven

 

Offline neilep

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Re: Marshmallow in space (or a vacuum)
« Reply #19 on: 11/08/2006 13:06:32 »
So to enjoy BIG marsh-mellows I should put wifey in a vacuum chamber and feed them to her there......She will benefit from massive-marshmellow-madness-goodness !!





Also....on a side note  WHY are they called Marshmellows ?

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another_someone

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Re: Marshmallow in space (or a vacuum)
« Reply #20 on: 11/08/2006 13:52:42 »
quote:
Originally posted by Mjhavok
No I haven't. It was in firefox. I closed and restarted it and it worked fine again. Weird.



Firefox is multi platform and open source, and no doubt a large number of the developers are from a strong open source Linux (or other open source unix like) background.



George
 

Offline ariel

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Re: Marshmallow in space (or a vacuum)
« Reply #21 on: 14/08/2006 15:37:04 »
i remember! after you remove the marshmellow from the vacuum it will shrink!
i think.

well heres one website...almost explains how they got the name

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/gen99/gen99440.htm

There really is a plant called a marsh
mallow (found in marshes, natch) which produces a sticky stuff not
unlike half-cooked gelatin or egg whites, which can be whipped to a
froth.  Add sugar or honey, and you have a tasty delicacy suitable for the dainty digestion of pharaohs and their princesses

ariel
 

Offline neilep

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Re: Marshmallow in space (or a vacuum)
« Reply #22 on: 14/08/2006 19:36:19 »
quote:
Originally posted by ariel

i remember! after you remove the marshmellow from the vacuum it will shrink!
i think.

well heres one website...almost explains how they got the name

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/gen99/gen99440.htm

There really is a plant called a marsh
mallow (found in marshes, natch) which produces a sticky stuff not
unlike half-cooked gelatin or egg whites, which can be whipped to a
froth.  Add sugar or honey, and you have a tasty delicacy suitable for the dainty digestion of pharaohs and their princesses

ariel



THANK YOU ARIEL !!

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO good to see you back here again !!

We ALL missed you xx

Men are the same as women, just inside out !
« Last Edit: 14/08/2006 19:37:32 by neilep »
 

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Re: Marshmallow in space (or a vacuum)
« Reply #22 on: 14/08/2006 19:36:19 »

 

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