# The Naked Scientists Forum

### Author Topic: does gravity affect time?  (Read 2131 times)

#### thedoc

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##### does gravity affect time?
« on: 11/03/2014 17:30:01 »

I was wondering if one could see gravity as an artifact of a time gradient?

Time in the vicinity of mass slows down, assuming this would limit the existence possibilities in time along this gradient. So if a particle/wave could move in different directions (due to some quantum variability?) changes in the direction of the mass would be limited, the variability along the opposite direction along the time gradient less limited. I thought this might perhaps explain why the particle is pulled in the direction of the mass.

What's wrong with this amateur notion :)

Cheers, thank you for your excellent podcasts!

felis domestica

What do you think?
« Last Edit: 11/03/2014 17:30:01 by _system »

#### jeffreyH

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##### Re: does gravity affect time?
« Reply #1 on: 13/03/2014 15:49:33 »
It has been experimentally verified that gravity affects time. Are to talking about time and momentum, which is velocity in a particular direction? What you are describing is asymptotic freedom where motion can be thought of as limited in one direction and unlimited in an opposite direction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymptotic_freedom

Energy increases with shorter distances from a source but bound states decrease. This is like tying an elastic band around an object and throwing the object while holding the band. It gets harder for the object to move away as the band becomes stretched. Gluons interacting with quarks exhibit this behaviour.

#### petm1

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##### Re: does gravity affect time?
« Reply #2 on: 17/03/2014 19:09:31 »
Time in the vicinity of mass slows down, assuming this would limit the existence possibilities in time along this gradient. So if a particle/wave could move in different directions (due to some quantum variability?) changes in the direction of the mass would be limited, the variability along the opposite direction along the time gradient less limited. I thought this might perhaps explain why the particle is pulled in the direction of the mass.

I don't think of time as slowing down in the vicinity of mass, I think of it as a increase is the duration of a second or a lengthening of space 'time' causing our clocks to tick with less frequency.  Red shift of a photon that always travels at the same speed must either be caused by a expanding space with time the same, or a dilating time with space remaining the same or maybe both.  And if you think of all photons traveling the same direction, outward from a point like all energy, our one directional motion in time agrees with our backwards view as receivers.

#### jeffreyH

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##### Re: does gravity affect time?
« Reply #3 on: 17/03/2014 20:09:34 »
Time in the vicinity of mass slows down, assuming this would limit the existence possibilities in time along this gradient. So if a particle/wave could move in different directions (due to some quantum variability?) changes in the direction of the mass would be limited, the variability along the opposite direction along the time gradient less limited. I thought this might perhaps explain why the particle is pulled in the direction of the mass.

I don't think of time as slowing down in the vicinity of mass, I think of it as a increase is the duration of a second or a lengthening of space 'time' causing our clocks to tick with less frequency.  Red shift of a photon that always travels at the same speed must either be caused by a expanding space with time the same, or a dilating time with space remaining the same or maybe both.  And if you think of all photons traveling the same direction, outward from a point like all energy, our one directional motion in time agrees with our backwards view as receivers.

You may well be right. I haven't gone into time dilation and length contraction enough really. Time dilation is something that is taken for granted since GPS. I usually like to verify things for myself but this one I missed out. I think a lot of people don't understand it completely, hence a lot of repeated debates.

#### Pmb

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##### Re: does gravity affect time?
« Reply #4 on: 21/03/2014 04:55:26 »

I was wondering if one could see gravity as an artifact of a time gradient?
No. It's the other way around. A gradient in the rate at which time flows is a manifestation of a gravitational field (whether the spacetime is curved or not it makes no difference).

#### yor_on

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##### Re: does gravity affect time?
« Reply #5 on: 26/03/2014 22:09:42 »
As there is no absolute frame of reference in Einsteins SpaceTime, that I know of, you always will need to define relative what you find that 'time' to slow down. That means that your own frame of reference is what define it, your local clock (and ruler) as it is. If we had a absolute (globally agreeable on) definition of what a 'universally correct time keeping' was, then we could use that naturally, but finding it would also make relativity wrong. That's what Lorentz transformations are about, amongst other things, enabling us to agree on time, but it doesn't tell us which local version is more correct, or rather, it tells us all versions are (locally) correct.

#### The Naked Scientists Forum

##### Re: does gravity affect time?
« Reply #5 on: 26/03/2014 22:09:42 »