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Author Topic: Did the laws of physics exist before the big bang.  (Read 9334 times)

Offline Pmb

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Re: Did the laws of physics exist before the big bang.
« Reply #25 on: 04/04/2014 20:59:30 »
Quote from: Omaughuntinaser
still another enormous good laugh!
I don't know what your goal in saying things like that is but the more you do the more I can see how little you understand of science, especially the Big Bang Theory. It's readily clear by the way you speak of it as if you were a child. Physicists in this forum such as JP and myself have many years experience dealing with people who act like you. In all cases, in the end you have all contributed nothing to the forum other than to waste everyone's time. In fact it's been clear from the start that your real problem is with scientists themselves. Jealousy I would guess.

The problem is that your lack of understanding of both science, scientists and the job they do, how they do it, the logic and philosophy they're trained in using. So far I've seen nothing like that from you. You've proven you know nothing about science or nature and therefore you're unable to post anything of any real value or use to anybody. Not one person has gained anything from anything you've said in this thread so far. Go away and come back when you've learned more about science or you've decided to be less of child and stop insulting those who are trying to help you.
« Last Edit: 04/04/2014 21:11:52 by Pmb »
 

Offline Pmb

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Re: Did the laws of physics exist before the big bang.
« Reply #26 on: 04/04/2014 21:21:57 »
Quote from: jeffreyH
I always believe in looking at data to verify things for myself. I had up until recently thought that instead of the universe expanding more and more rapidly it was actually slowing down. So I looked at the data and did my own calculations using a logical approach and in fact found the theory of increasing expansion velocity 100% valid. I had been looking at the data the wrong way round which is easy to do when the data goes backward in time. This means that the universe is highly likely to have originated from a source that may or may not have been singular but it strongly indicates a big bang event. You can determine this for yourself by properly analyzing the redshift data. Things can work out to be right even if counter-intuitive. If you feel as you do then put the evidence together and have it peer reviewed. It is no use just laughing at professionals because in the end the laugh is on you.
That's part of the scientific method. It's something our new resident child-flamer doesn't grasp. However was there any real doubt as to the accuracy of the statement? Being a physicist I know how careful scientists are in their work and what goes into making that kind of a statement. At first the idea was put out there as what follows from observation. However it took a while for physicists to fall in line and accept it because they too don't simply accept it because someone tells them too. It's very clear that the child-flamer has no clue about that part of the scientific method. Like everyone who uses the term "indoctrinate" in a forum discussion he too is extremely ignorant about what science is or how it's done. I recommend ignoring the child-flamer. He's no good for the forum and responding to him will only make him want to stay and flame those who disagree with him.
 

Offline Bill S

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Re: Did the laws of physics exist before the big bang.
« Reply #27 on: 04/04/2014 23:20:28 »
It goes against every instinct I have even to appear to support someone who posts the kind of pathetic ad hominem outbursts that appear in this thread, so I distance myself from that before going any further.

However, I have a couple of questions.

1. I take the point that the amount of positive energy in the Universe may well be the same as the negative energy, in which case the balance would be zero; but surely there would still be energy in the Universe;  some +ve and some –ve?   

2. Would I not be right in thinking that accepting the Big Bang theory does not necessarily mean accepting that the Universe came from nothing?
 

Offline Pmb

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Re: Did the laws of physics exist before the big bang.
« Reply #28 on: 05/04/2014 02:17:16 »
Quote from: Bill S
...but surely there would still be energy in the Universe;  some +ve and some –ve?
Who's to say. That does not have the status of a universally accepted fact as of yet.

Quote from: Bill S
2. Would I not be right in thinking that accepting the Big Bang theory does not necessarily mean accepting that the Universe came from nothing?
That's correct. Consider the Pre-Big Bang Scenario. I don't know it that well but I believe that it postulates the existence of matter before the big bang phase. You'd have to look this up to be certain. I haven't studied this theory yet.
 

Offline zunimtn

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Re: Did the laws of physics exist before the big bang.
« Reply #29 on: 06/04/2014 22:34:03 »
     

This is my first post.   You know how it's said that if a mass could reach light speed, it would expand into infinite energy (my paraphrasing)?  Or that if you could pinpoint reality down to below the Planck scale, into a point, it would pretty much do the same thing?  Maybe a singularity is  that, pure infinite (no spacetime to say otherwise!) randomness and potential and unlawfulness.  Maybe that's not a sustainable condition, so it  explodes or inflates, into an immediate process of differentiation, symmetry breaking, "cooling".  Maybe this process itself evolved the laws as we know them now, like a boot strap action.  The infinite possible outcomes increasingly break symmetry into specific behaviors (laws) that take further development along more and more constrained paths?  Til it comes to us blogging about it,  like salamanders' eyes first looking above the surface of a swamp.

Or, it's turtles all the way down.

 

Offline Europan Ocean

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Re: Did the laws of physics exist before the big bang.
« Reply #30 on: 07/04/2014 10:10:09 »
Stephen Hawking “Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist.”

What was the universe if it had pre big bang "properties". It was not nothing if it had properties. Was this in existence on it's own? Or where did it come from?

I suspect there was no probability before the big bang.
 

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Re: Did the laws of physics exist before the big bang.
« Reply #30 on: 07/04/2014 10:10:09 »

 

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