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Author Topic: Do photons at light speed experience time stopping?  (Read 8512 times)

Offline Omaughuntinaser

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Re: Do photons at light speed experience time stopping?
« Reply #25 on: 04/04/2014 09:56:33 »

Only for two minutes ...

Nope, totally and provable untrue. it works just fine all the time,.

Quote from:  astronomy.ohio-state.edu
... If these [relativistic] effects were not properly taken into account, a navigational fix based on the GPS constellation would be false after only 2 minutes, and errors in global positions would continue to accumulate at a rate of about 10 kilometers each day! The whole system would be utterly worthless for navigation in a very short time.

well, they can state whatever they want, it is really not true at all.
So, they are what is called lying.


 

Offline Omaughuntinaser

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Re: Do photons at light speed experience time stopping?
« Reply #26 on: 04/04/2014 09:57:05 »

Only for two minutes ...

Nope, totally and provable untrue. it works just fine all the time,.

Quote from:  astronomy.ohio-state.edu
... If these [relativistic] effects were not properly taken into account, a navigational fix based on the GPS constellation would be false after only 2 minutes, and errors in global positions would continue to accumulate at a rate of about 10 kilometers each day! The whole system would be utterly worthless for navigation in a very short time.

well, they can state whatever they want, it is really not true at all.
So, they are what is called lying.



or call them 'myths' ;)


'science' is full of them, 'myths'

if 'science' repeats a myth enough, people start believing it, and the myth becomes fact.

It's all a scam.



« Last Edit: 04/04/2014 10:02:20 by Omaughuntinaser »
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: Do photons at light speed experience time stopping?
« Reply #27 on: 05/04/2014 01:19:28 »
well, they can state whatever they want, it is really not true at all.
The evidence I've seen suggests that is not the case:

According to Section 2.3.1 (Ranging Signal Carrier Characteristics) of the 'GPS Standard Positioning Service Signal Specification' (1995):

"To compensate for relativistic effects, the output frequency of the satellite's frequency standard -- as it would appear to an observer located at the satellite -- is 10.23 MHz offset by a Df/f = -4.4647 x 10-18 or a Df = -4.567 x 10-3 Hz"[D is delta]

In other words, the clock rate is compensated for relativistic effects before deployment of the satellite.

In section 2.5, it describes the user algorithms for "Correction of the code phase time received from the satellite with respect to both satellite code phase offset and relativistic effects".

These algorithms are detailed in Section 2.5.5.2 (Satellite Clock Correction), where it explains the offset coefficients transmitted from the satellite, and states:

"Since these coefficients do not include corrections for relativistic effects, the user's equipment must determine the requisite relativistic correction. Accordingly, the offset given below includes a term to perform this function."

The algorithms follow.

A detailed explanation is given by Neil Ashby in 'Relativity and the GPS'.

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It's all a scam.
I think not.
 

Offline Bill S

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Re: Do photons at light speed experience time stopping?
« Reply #28 on: 05/04/2014 02:09:25 »
Quote from: JP
However, saying that we can look at the universe from the point of view of a photon is not controversial-- it's just plain wrong.

I have no problem with that. 

Quote
His description of motion through space vs motion through time is one way of describing time dilation and length contraction.

Thatís probably what tripped me up. I thought that we couldnít apply time dilation equations to photons.
 

Offline Pmb

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Re: Do photons at light speed experience time stopping?
« Reply #29 on: 05/04/2014 02:12:25 »
Quote from: Omaughuntinaser
GPS doens'n't need relativity theory,
Another sign of ignorance. Little does this flamer know, when the system was placed in orbit there was, effectively, a switch that when thrown takes relativity into account. The fact is that the system didn't work until that switch was thrown - More evidence of this flamers massive ignorance.
 

Offline Bill S

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Re: Do photons at light speed experience time stopping?
« Reply #30 on: 05/04/2014 02:58:03 »
Quote from: Omaughuntinaser
Nope, totally and provable untrue. it works just fine all the time

Provable?  Perhaps you could explain that in simple terms that even I could understand.
 

Offline Pmb

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Re: Do photons at light speed experience time stopping?
« Reply #31 on: 05/04/2014 04:26:44 »
Quote from: Omaughuntinaser
just a cop out,
You sound like a teenager who thinks he knows everything and I certainly won't waste anymore time with a ignorant troller like you.

Folks - Why are we bothering with this person? He's obviously a good for nothing troller and not worthy of recognizing his/her presence here. Forget this idiot and let's get back to discussion between intelligent, mature people and not the likes of this troller.
 

Offline lightarrow

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Re: Do photons at light speed experience time stopping?
« Reply #32 on: 05/04/2014 12:23:11 »
...
'science' is full of them, 'myths'
if 'science' repeats a myth enough, people start believing it, and the myth becomes fact.
It's all a scam.
At least this is true in your case...
 

Offline Pmb

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Re: Do photons at light speed experience time stopping?
« Reply #33 on: 05/04/2014 13:57:17 »
...
'science' is full of them, 'myths'
if 'science' repeats a myth enough, people start believing it, and the myth becomes fact.
It's all a scam.
At least this is true in your case...
Please don't feed the trolls.
 

Offline zunimtn

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Re: Do photons at light speed experience time stopping?
« Reply #34 on: 06/04/2014 23:42:10 »
I gotta say!  There's a couple cranks on this site!  Spinning wheels, no gain.

Einstein's math says (Max Born, "Einstein's Theory of Relativity") that at "c". space (length) in the direction of travel = 0, and time also = 0.    I personally think this implies that we are not getting a length/time  (186,000 miles / 1 sec) sort of answer, even though we think that's the kind of measurement we're making.  It seems to say that the measurement is more about a kind of distortion or warp or drag that spacetime represents, compared with a whole 'nother ball game for light (and the electromagnet and gravitational fields).  That would also explain why any mass, at any spacetime speed, will always fall short of reaching "c" by just about 186,000 mps!

It's sort of saying that space and time are 186,000 mps "off" or "slower than" the singularity - simultaneity -  absolute connection - kind of state that light and fields exist at.  Maybe they exist as a "background singularity" that never broke symmetry with the Big Whatever. 

Also, to one of the early comments, electrons do in fact travel down conduction wires.  They stroll down the wires from atom to atom, at a relaxed pace.  The electromagnetic field these moving charges generate propagate along the wire at "c".   The willingness of metal atoms to let go of an outer electron is why wires carry electricity. 

zunimtn
 

Floyd Baker

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« Reply #35 on: 10/04/2015 04:02:30 »
Light is the true relativity.   It is applied across the universe equally.  Its speed is the same through every inertial frame of reference.  It doesn't know nor care what gravity or perception speed the inhabitants have...  Light is cosmic.., identical across all of it...

Forget what you've read about light photon's duality...  The delivery of light has two separate and distinct parts and operations...  First there is the particle that is called a photon travelling at the speed of light that is transmitting a single frequency that is radiating outward.., also at the speed of light.   The key to producing the light spectrum is that the forward going wave front cannot get out of the way of the transmitter radiating it.., so it blue shifted into extinction...   All parts of a wave cannot be in the same place at the same time.    But outward from that center line of travel, as the degree increases, one will see lower and lower wave lengths traveling outward.  They are simply being blue shifted less and less.  From that forward direction to the 90 degree point.., one will see the entire electromagnetic spectrum, which of course includes the visible portion, being laid out to a flat plane just ahead of the photon in all directions around the exact center....  That plane representing the wall in your living room for example...

The visible spectrum will look like colored circles much like a target.    Light produces a virtually endless, or cosmic wide electromagnetic spectrum..  From the ultimate self extinguishing shortest wavelength possible to the lowest which is cosmos long...Size wise, the visible will take up the equivalent to a pixel on your monitor...  It will be make one tiny spec of light that with many more photon arrivals will make up the  entire image of their source...

We then with our frame's particular mental perception speed, adjusted up or down by our velocity through the cosmos, will look for the frequency that equates to what we have evolved to see as say the color blue...  Once we alligh with what is familiar to us we will have found our frame's portion of the cosmic electromagnetic spectrum...  It will be a different portion for every frame...  But each will see the frequency that to them is blue.   This is all seen and developed from proven science...    Light is the true relativity...  There is no time...    

There are *many* more details at http://www.thecosmosreconsidered.com  

No more paradoxes.  There is no time.  Time is simply a survival mechanism.  A hard drive storage system in our brain.   We can 'remember' what happened to Fred when he jumped off that cliff trying to fly like a bird...  :)    That doesn't mean there is Time...   It's an illusion.  








 

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