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Author Topic: Help required with New Energy Saving Invention  (Read 7689 times)

Offline bigOz

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Help required with New Energy Saving Invention
« on: 14/08/2006 10:15:38 »
Encouraged by the current Global Warming crisis, I am in need of a partner for an eco-friendly energy saving gadget I have developed. I have designed all the electrical circuitry required and a prototype is in progress. However, I have no idea about making the mechanical parts more efficient.

I intend to enter this gadget for a development and commercialisation award by Powergen-energylab.co.uk, currently on offer to the finalists of a competition based on energy saving ideas. The award is 50,000 plus expert advice/assistance in developing the new product.

If you can help design the effficient mechanical parts for the project, please let me know asap.


 

ROBERT

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Re: Help required with New Energy Saving Invention
« Reply #1 on: 14/08/2006 15:43:08 »
You should apply for patent for any invention before publicizing it:-

" If you are thinking of applying for a patent you should not publicly disclose the invention before you file an application because this could be counted as prior publication of your invention. Any type of disclosure (whether by word of mouth, demonstration, advertisement or article in a journal), by the applicant or anyone acting for them, could prevent the applicant from getting a patent. It could also be a reason for having the patent revoked if one was obtained. It is essential that the applicant only makes any disclosure under conditions of strict confidence."
http://www.patent.gov.uk/patent/howtoapply/index.htm

« Last Edit: 14/08/2006 15:52:45 by ROBERT »
 

Offline bigOz

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Re: Help required with New Energy Saving Invention
« Reply #2 on: 15/08/2006 10:45:55 »
quote:
Originally posted by ROBERT

You should apply for patent for any invention before publicizing it:-


Thanks for the advice. I have the necessary information about patenting which indicate it takes a long time and a lot of money.

I would have thought a reputable company like Powergen would be prepared to make some form of a confidentiality agreement before an idea's details are disclosed to them - even if its for an award/assistance competition.

But you have alerted me to the fact!
 

Offline Atomic-S

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Re: Help required with New Energy Saving Invention
« Reply #3 on: 18/08/2006 04:05:47 »
Any advice given in this forum to the company, is automatically published to the world, and therefore probably unpatentable. You need a secure transmission method.
 

Offline Science_Geek

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Re: Help required with New Energy Saving Invention
« Reply #4 on: 24/08/2006 15:13:30 »
Hi bigOz,

How are things going with this?
 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: Help required with New Energy Saving Invention
« Reply #5 on: 24/08/2006 16:37:58 »
quote:
Thanks for the advice. I have the necessary information about patenting which indicate it takes a long time and a lot of money.

I would have thought a reputable company like Power-gen would be prepared to make some form of a confidentiality agreement before an idea's details are disclosed to them - even if its for an award/assistance competition.

But you have alerted me to the fact!

You have no choice but to take out a patent once you have taken your design or idea as far as you can take it if you still believe your idea has merit. It dosent take a lot of time and the moment the correctly filled in patent application drops through the letter box of the patent office its covered subject to searches which you also have no choice but to pay for to see if your idea is unique and not similar to anything else.
Many people patent idea's that come to nothing and just because you may have not seen your idea somewhere else doesnt mean it hasnt be thought of and patented before.

A big company like powergen would not really be interested in your idea without knowing if your idea works or is worth anything to them in the first place. And therefore it would only be of use to them when it has been patented and has had some form of search done to prove its uniqueness in order to protect their investment. Time is money and non disclosure agreements means legal advice on their side as well as yours which all costs money, probably more than a patent would cost.

When you first apply for a patent and your idea is given basic protection you are allowed to make developmental changes to it in order to improve its design ,i think this stage lasts for only a year so you have to be sure your idea is ready for this step. But this is the time when companies like powergen could become interested and not before as by now you should know if it works and whether or not your idea is really yours to own.

There are also companies out there which specialize in developing and marketing other  people idea's and inventions and will sign a non disclosure agreement  before the idea has been patented . but by using these companies you have to sign over a large chunck of your rights to the idea if they decide to pump money into its development and marketing, but it could be worth it. If you wish to use one of the companies then do a search on the interenet.

Michael
« Last Edit: 24/08/2006 18:18:32 by ukmicky »
 

Offline Science_Geek

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Re: Help required with New Energy Saving Invention
« Reply #6 on: 24/08/2006 15:13:30 »
Hi bigOz,

How are things going with this?
 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: Help required with New Energy Saving Invention
« Reply #7 on: 24/08/2006 16:37:58 »
quote:
Thanks for the advice. I have the necessary information about patenting which indicate it takes a long time and a lot of money.

I would have thought a reputable company like Power-gen would be prepared to make some form of a confidentiality agreement before an idea's details are disclosed to them - even if its for an award/assistance competition.

But you have alerted me to the fact!

You have no choice but to take out a patent once you have taken your design or idea as far as you can take it if you still believe your idea has merit. It dosent take a lot of time and the moment the correctly filled in patent application drops through the letter box of the patent office its covered subject to searches which you also have no choice but to pay for to see if your idea is unique and not similar to anything else.
Many people patent idea's that come to nothing and just because you may have not seen your idea somewhere else doesnt mean it hasnt be thought of and patented before.

A big company like powergen would not really be interested in your idea without knowing if your idea works or is worth anything to them in the first place. And therefore it would only be of use to them when it has been patented and has had some form of search done to prove its uniqueness in order to protect their investment. Time is money and non disclosure agreements means legal advice on their side as well as yours which all costs money, probably more than a patent would cost.

When you first apply for a patent and your idea is given basic protection you are allowed to make developmental changes to it in order to improve its design ,i think this stage lasts for only a year so you have to be sure your idea is ready for this step. But this is the time when companies like powergen could become interested and not before as by now you should know if it works and whether or not your idea is really yours to own.

There are also companies out there which specialize in developing and marketing other  people idea's and inventions and will sign a non disclosure agreement  before the idea has been patented . but by using these companies you have to sign over a large chunck of your rights to the idea if they decide to pump money into its development and marketing, but it could be worth it. If you wish to use one of the companies then do a search on the interenet.

Michael
« Last Edit: 24/08/2006 18:18:32 by ukmicky »
 

Offline Science_Geek

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Re: Help required with New Energy Saving Invention
« Reply #8 on: 24/08/2006 15:13:30 »
Hi bigOz,

How are things going with this?
 

Offline ukmicky

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Re: Help required with New Energy Saving Invention
« Reply #9 on: 24/08/2006 16:37:58 »
quote:
Thanks for the advice. I have the necessary information about patenting which indicate it takes a long time and a lot of money.

I would have thought a reputable company like Power-gen would be prepared to make some form of a confidentiality agreement before an idea's details are disclosed to them - even if its for an award/assistance competition.

But you have alerted me to the fact!

You have no choice but to take out a patent once you have taken your design or idea as far as you can take it if you still believe your idea has merit. It dosent take a lot of time and the moment the correctly filled in patent application drops through the letter box of the patent office its covered subject to searches which you also have no choice but to pay for to see if your idea is unique and not similar to anything else.
Many people patent idea's that come to nothing and just because you may have not seen your idea somewhere else doesnt mean it hasnt be thought of and patented before.

A big company like powergen would not really be interested in your idea without knowing if your idea works or is worth anything to them in the first place. And therefore it would only be of use to them when it has been patented and has had some form of search done to prove its uniqueness in order to protect their investment. Time is money and non disclosure agreements means legal advice on their side as well as yours which all costs money, probably more than a patent would cost.

When you first apply for a patent and your idea is given basic protection you are allowed to make developmental changes to it in order to improve its design ,i think this stage lasts for only a year so you have to be sure your idea is ready for this step. But this is the time when companies like powergen could become interested and not before as by now you should know if it works and whether or not your idea is really yours to own.

There are also companies out there which specialize in developing and marketing other  people idea's and inventions and will sign a non disclosure agreement  before the idea has been patented . but by using these companies you have to sign over a large chunck of your rights to the idea if they decide to pump money into its development and marketing, but it could be worth it. If you wish to use one of the companies then do a search on the interenet.

Michael
« Last Edit: 24/08/2006 18:18:32 by ukmicky »
 

Offline cheetah

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Re: Help required with New Energy Saving Invention
« Reply #10 on: 25/08/2006 10:23:20 »
hi bigoz,

i probably can't help you but I have my own idea maybe we can stay in touch throughout the process. which regional heat will you be going in?

// Cheetah
 

sharkeyandgeorge

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Re: Help required with New Energy Saving Invention
« Reply #11 on: 25/08/2006 14:48:13 »
hi bigoz im a pretty good mechanical engineer though I specilise in civils if you would like to email me a rough idea of what your going for Ill see what I can come up with.
 

Offline bigOz

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Re: Help required with New Energy Saving Invention
« Reply #12 on: 29/08/2006 09:32:57 »
quote:
Originally posted by cheetah

hi bigoz,

i probably can't help you but I have my own idea maybe we can stay in touch throughout the process. which regional heat will you be going in?

// Cheetah



I have no idea how many regions Powergen actually are using but I guess I'll be from the Midlands.
 

Offline bigOz

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Re: Help required with New Energy Saving Invention
« Reply #13 on: 29/08/2006 09:34:40 »
quote:
Originally posted by sharkeyandgeorge

hi bigoz im a pretty good mechanical engineer though I specilise in civils if you would like to email me a rough idea of what your going for Ill see what I can come up with.



Thanks pal! Please give me couple of days and I shall be sending you a message.
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Re: Help required with New Energy Saving Invention
« Reply #14 on: 30/08/2006 10:59:08 »
Sorry It's taken me so long to get round to this one.

I am a retired electronics engineer who worked for meny years in  EMI Central Research Laboratories and originated many patents.  We also looked at other patented good ideas from other people.  Getting or applying for a root patent that covers your main idea is important but most ideas need several patents to cover them once they have been developed to become useful.

What you need to do is to carefully write down exactly what your idea is and one way (not necessary the best way) of building a device that achieves this objective.  To this you add some claims about what you think is original, starting with the broadest possible and gradually homing in on the very specific.

You will need a patent attourney to help you with the drafting which is in a special leagal language I call patenteese.

You need to check that no one else has patented your idea.  From my experience most ideas have been patented!  although the patents have frequently run out of time.  

You can search patents on line yourself at  http://gb.espacenet.com/
This is one of the most labour intensive parts and can reduce your costs.

Look up some patents on similar subjects to what you are doing and read through them.

I have used the database to look up one of my more recent patent applications that was in progress when I retired.

http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=GB2373050&F=0

This will show you what a patent is like even though its's probably not relevant to your idea.  

I note that the application was eventually withdrawn but that does not matter and this idea is in the public domain.


Learn, create, test and tell
evolution rules in all things
God says so!
« Last Edit: 30/08/2006 11:17:58 by Soul Surfer »
 

Offline bigOz

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Re: Help required with New Energy Saving Invention
« Reply #15 on: 30/08/2006 11:42:46 »
quote:
Originally posted by Soul Surfer

Sorry It's taken me so long to get round to this one...



Thank you very much for the valuable information you have provided - I am grateful!

I have just asked and found out that Powergen need not be told the patentable detailed workings of the idea for the entry. Hence, I have taken on board your comments about writing down specifically what the idea does and any supporting material to accompany it.

Talking to patent solicitors and getting a product internationally patented will cost thousands of pounds. That is worth it if the finished product will bring in revenue.

The problem with such an invention is and has always been - the inventor will never afford to create a national power grid to use his invention as the source of supply (worth hundreds of billions!), and the current power sources are not going to drop their highly profitable investments and infrastructure overnight (or in any foreseeable future) in preference to an alternative cheaper and cleaner source because they are good samaritans!

This is why, whether they are hydrogen powered cars (already produced), or alternative energy ideas, they will fail to be applied on a mass scale. Hence no financing is available for such inventions or projects.

So, I hope you understand why there is no point in me spending thousands on patenting an idea at this time. If in the next decade or two we start running of oil and there is genuine interest in better alternative energy sources, then my idea can be patented and made public. Meanwhile, I'll keep it safe for my children to have...
 

Offline Soul Surfer

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Re: Help required with New Energy Saving Invention
« Reply #16 on: 30/08/2006 10:59:08 »
Sorry It's taken me so long to get round to this one.

I am a retired electronics engineer who worked for meny years in  EMI Central Research Laboratories and originated many patents.  We also looked at other patented good ideas from other people.  Getting or applying for a root patent that covers your main idea is important but most ideas need several patents to cover them once they have been developed to become useful.

What you need to do is to carefully write down exactly what your idea is and one way (not necessary the best way) of building a device that achieves this objective.  To this you add some claims about what you think is original, starting with the broadest possible and gradually homing in on the very specific.

You will need a patent attourney to help you with the drafting which is in a special leagal language I call patenteese.

You need to check that no one else has patented your idea.  From my experience most ideas have been patented!  although the patents have frequently run out of time.  

You can search patents on line yourself at  http://gb.espacenet.com/
This is one of the most labour intensive parts and can reduce your costs.

Look up some patents on similar subjects to what you are doing and read through them.

I have used the database to look up one of my more recent patent applications that was in progress when I retired.

http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=GB2373050&F=0

This will show you what a patent is like even though its's probably not relevant to your idea.  

I note that the application was eventually withdrawn but that does not matter and this idea is in the public domain.


Learn, create, test and tell
evolution rules in all things
God says so!
« Last Edit: 30/08/2006 11:17:58 by Soul Surfer »
 

Offline bigOz

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Re: Help required with New Energy Saving Invention
« Reply #17 on: 30/08/2006 11:42:46 »
quote:
Originally posted by Soul Surfer

Sorry It's taken me so long to get round to this one...



Thank you very much for the valuable information you have provided - I am grateful!

I have just asked and found out that Powergen need not be told the patentable detailed workings of the idea for the entry. Hence, I have taken on board your comments about writing down specifically what the idea does and any supporting material to accompany it.

Talking to patent solicitors and getting a product internationally patented will cost thousands of pounds. That is worth it if the finished product will bring in revenue.

The problem with such an invention is and has always been - the inventor will never afford to create a national power grid to use his invention as the source of supply (worth hundreds of billions!), and the current power sources are not going to drop their highly profitable investments and infrastructure overnight (or in any foreseeable future) in preference to an alternative cheaper and cleaner source because they are good samaritans!

This is why, whether they are hydrogen powered cars (already produced), or alternative energy ideas, they will fail to be applied on a mass scale. Hence no financing is available for such inventions or projects.

So, I hope you understand why there is no point in me spending thousands on patenting an idea at this time. If in the next decade or two we start running of oil and there is genuine interest in better alternative energy sources, then my idea can be patented and made public. Meanwhile, I'll keep it safe for my children to have...
 

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Re: Help required with New Energy Saving Invention
« Reply #17 on: 30/08/2006 11:42:46 »

 

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