# The Naked Scientists Forum

### Author Topic: Amazing Discovery With Magnets  (Read 4276 times)

#### jccc

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##### Amazing Discovery With Magnets
« on: 12/05/2014 18:24:58 »
aid=P8fZ2oSGqsg

Very interesting, makes you thinking long time.

#### chiralSPO

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##### Re: Amazing Discovery With Magnets
« Reply #1 on: 13/05/2014 00:38:01 »
Interesting demonstration. My gut reaction to explain this is:

attraction and repulsion fall off as 1/r2

imagine a 1 dimensional system where r is the only variable. A magnet of strength 20 is placed at r=0, and a magnet of strength 3 is placed at r=2 (all arbitrary units). Another magnet that is attracted to the larger magnet, and repelled by the smaller approaches from r=∞. The attractive force = 20/r2 and the repulsive force = 3/(r–2)2 therefore the net attractive force = 20/r2 –3/(r–2)2

this function has a zero around 3.26. so if the approaching magnet is further than 3.26 it is attracted, and closer than 3.26 it is repelled (unless it actually somehow gets to a value below 2 [between the repelling and attracting magnets] when it falls into the central magnet)

I have attached a graphical representation of this (red is attractive force, green is repulsive force, and blue is the net force; – is repulsive, + is attractive)

#### jccc

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##### Re: Amazing Discovery With Magnets
« Reply #2 on: 13/05/2014 20:15:57 »
Now image the center magnet is a proton, the other magnet is an electron, the space in between is negative charged elastic fluid.

The space near the proton shall be attracted to form a ball shape negative electric field, which repels closing electron at all time all direction. The electron attracted by proton, repled by ball field, balance at diameter of the atom.

I had this theory long time till found that video, a great demo for how a hydrogen atom is constructed. The electron in the atom is not freaking fly around the proton but stable and vibrating neat the diameter.

Just my though thou, no credit.

#### jccc

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##### Re: Amazing Discovery With Magnets
« Reply #3 on: 13/05/2014 20:25:45 »
Interesting demonstration. My gut reaction to explain this is:

attraction and repulsion fall off as 1/r2

imagine a 1 dimensional system where r is the only variable. A magnet of strength 20 is placed at r=0, and a magnet of strength 3 is placed at r=2 (all arbitrary units). Another magnet that is attracted to the larger magnet, and repelled by the smaller approaches from r=∞. The attractive force = 20/r2 and the repulsive force = 3/(r–2)2 therefore the net attractive force = 20/r2 –3/(r–2)2

this function has a zero around 3.26. so if the approaching magnet is further than 3.26 it is attracted, and closer than 3.26 it is repelled (unless it actually somehow gets to a value below 2 [between the repelling and attracting magnets] when it falls into the central magnet)

I have attached a graphical representation of this (red is attractive force, green is repulsive force, and blue is the net force; – is repulsive, + is attractive)

Thanks for the graphic and explanation, pretty much true.

I wonder in the case of magnet force, it may not fall off as 1/r^2, maybe 1/r^3.

#### Bored chemist

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##### Re: Amazing Discovery With Magnets
« Reply #4 on: 13/05/2014 20:50:55 »
I'm fairly sure the force between dipoles falls as 1/r^3

#### jccc

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##### Re: Amazing Discovery With Magnets
« Reply #5 on: 13/05/2014 21:42:17 »
I'm fairly sure the force between dipoles falls as 1/r^3

Wow, if that's true, it favors my thought about magnetic force. I think magnets magnetise space by attract/repell space to form dense/lose layels off the poles planes.
N pole>>>>very dance/very lose, dense/lose, less dense/less lose....
S pole<<<<very lose/very dense, lose/dense, less losel/ess dense....

The force density of the layels falls off as 1/r^3 from the plane. Because the electric charge strength falls as 1/r^2. It's like when a bloom expend in low pressure space to double its diameter, the density of the air inside becomes 1/8=1/2^3.

Dense space layel attracts/induce lose space layel by electrical force, that's how force traveling in space.

Not sure what I am saying, the weed is good.
« Last Edit: 13/05/2014 23:00:31 by jccc »

#### chiralSPO

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##### Re: Amazing Discovery With Magnets
« Reply #6 on: 13/05/2014 22:50:29 »
Bored Chemist, you are correct. I had accidentally modeled them as monopoles (obviously incorrect). However, the same basic principle stands.

JCC, I don't think you theory of charged space is correct. If space were negatively charged, protons would be able to aggregate (with some amount of space between them) without the help of any electrons. As far as I know this has never been observed.

#### jccc

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##### Re: Amazing Discovery With Magnets
« Reply #7 on: 13/05/2014 23:17:14 »
I just googled that word. So you mean protons might form a group without electrons because the dense negative ball field could attract other protons?

If so, I have two thoughts.

1. Maybe that's how nucleus formed without the help of imaginary strong force.

2. Electron is everywhere, the observation tools has lots electrons to mess with data collected.

Holly dream if any of my thoughts is true, appreciate no one call me doped up yet.

#### chiralSPO

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##### Re: Amazing Discovery With Magnets
« Reply #8 on: 13/05/2014 23:32:56 »
If space has the same negative charge everywhere (isotropic) then I don't see how it would push the electrons away from the nucleus--there would be just as much negative charge on the other side of the electron pushing it toward the nucleus. If, however, you think that this negative charge gathers near the nucleus (like the ring of small magnets) then I would argue that you are no longer talking about "space" but some kind of "ether" and that's a whole different argument...

#### jccc

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##### Re: Amazing Discovery With Magnets
« Reply #9 on: 14/05/2014 00:20:59 »
If space has the same negative charge everywhere (isotropic) then I don't see how it would push the electrons away from the nucleus--there would be just as much negative charge on the other side of the electron pushing it toward the nucleus. If, however, you think that this negative charge gathers near the nucleus (like the ring of small magnets) then I would argue that you are no longer talking about "space" but some kind of "ether" and that's a whole different argument...
I suggest that space is negative charged elastic fluid. It carries a constant charge everywhere. Because it is elastic in nature, if electrical force applied, it will locally compress or expend. The more compressed space carries the stronger negative charge.

The space repelled by electron to form a less negative ball field around it, the space close to a proton is much dense charged then space far away, the space close to an electron is much less charged then space far away.

Electron attracted by proton, not pushed by space towards proton.

Not ether stuff, think the whole space is a single electron that is elastic fluid in nature.

#### jccc

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##### Re: Amazing Discovery With Magnets
« Reply #10 on: 01/06/2014 19:28:46 »
Kind of too quite, hahahaha.

#### The Naked Scientists Forum

##### Re: Amazing Discovery With Magnets
« Reply #10 on: 01/06/2014 19:28:46 »