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Author Topic: Was Doctor Andrew Wakefield Right Right After all?  (Read 6724 times)

Offline profound

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Doctor Andrew Wakefield has been much vilified by the medical mafia but it seems he was right after all as studies prior to Wakefield and others after confirmed his findings after all.

"....Later the same month, the government suffered a second major defeat when young Emily Moller from Houston won compensation following vaccine-related brain injury that, once again, involved MMR and resulted in autism. The cases follow similar successful petitions in the Italian and US courts (including Hannah Poling [ii], Bailey Banks [iii], Misty Hyatt [iv], Kienan Freeman [v], Valentino Bocca [vi], and Julia Grimes [vii]) in which the governments conceded or the court ruled that vaccines had caused brain injury. In turn, this injury led to an ASD diagnosis. MMR vaccine was the common denominator in these cases.

"And today, scientists and physicians from Wake Forest University, New York, and Venezuela, reported findings that not only confirm the presence of intestinal disease in children with autism and intestinal symptoms, but also indicate that this disease may be novel. [viii] Using sophisticated laboratory methods Dr. Steve Walker and his colleagues endorsed Wakefield’s original findings by showing molecular changes in the children’s intestinal tissues that were highly distinctive and clearly abnormal."

The medical mafia which controls most MSM via advertising dollars,bribery ,gifts,ganged up on Dr Wakefield as he was threat to their billion dollar profits and prabable lawsuits from vaccine injury victims.

http://www.thelibertybeacon.com/2013/06/21/new-published-study-verifies-andrew-wakefields-research-on-autism-again-mmr-vaccine-causes-autism/

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0058058
« Last Edit: 25/05/2014 21:29:45 by profound »


 

Offline RD

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Re: Was Doctor Andrew Wakefield Right Right After all?
« Reply #1 on: 26/05/2014 00:22:25 »
Doctor Andrew Wakefield has been much vilified by the medical mafia but it seems he was right after all as studies prior to Wakefield and others after confirmed his findings after all.

What findings ?  ...

Quote from: theguardian.com
Wakefield said he had never opposed vaccination or claimed to have proof that MMR was linked to autism.

"I never made the claim at the time, nor do I still make the claim that MMR is a cause of autism," he said.
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/may/24/mmr-doctor-andrew-wakefield-struck-off

[ He throws a bleedin' good children's party ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6289166.stm ]

People with neurological abnormalities can have problems with bowel-function as a consequence. The abnormal bowel function could produce changes in the lining of the intestines as a consequence of neurogenic constipation.
i.e. a possible explanation for the association with bowel and brain abnormalities is brain causes bowel problem rather than the other way round.
« Last Edit: 26/05/2014 03:44:41 by RD »
 

Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Was Doctor Andrew Wakefield Right Right After all?
« Reply #2 on: 26/05/2014 10:47:15 »
Odd how the real report "The government did not admit that vaccines caused autism", found here
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-kirby/post2468343_b_2468343.html
doesn't say quite the same thing that Profound does.
"the government suffered a second major defeat when young Emily Moller from Houston won compensation following vaccine-related brain injury that, once again, involved MMR and resulted in autism."

Of course,, like all medical intervention, it's possible to have an adverse reaction to vaccination and the consequences of that may include brain damage which might lead to autism.
That's hardly the same as saying "MMR Causes Autism".
Also, don't forget that there's a glitch with this assertion
"The medical mafia which controls most MSM via advertising dollars,bribery ,gifts,ganged up on Dr Wakefield as he was threat to their billion dollar profits and prabable lawsuits from vaccine injury victims."
Wakefield ran a company that was selling an alternative vaccine.
He wasn't a threat to the pharmaceutical industry; he was part of it.
« Last Edit: 26/05/2014 10:54:08 by Bored chemist »
 

Offline profound

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Re: Was Doctor Andrew Wakefield Right Right After all?
« Reply #3 on: 27/05/2014 08:16:02 »
Odd how the real report "The government did not admit that vaccines caused autism", found here




and in your desperation to attack Dr Wakefield you "forgot" this...

"And today, scientists and physicians from Wake Forest University, New York, and Venezuela, reported findings that not only confirm the presence of intestinal disease in children with autism and intestinal symptoms, but also indicate that this disease may be novel. [viii] Using sophisticated laboratory methods Dr. Steve Walker and his colleagues endorsed Wakefield’s original findings by showing molecular changes in the children’s intestinal tissues that were highly distinctive and clearly abnormal."
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: Was Doctor Andrew Wakefield Right Right After all?
« Reply #4 on: 27/05/2014 11:12:28 »
As I see it, there are three findings

A: autism

B: bowel anomalies

C: MMR vaccination

Now A and B are rare, so a correlation between the two is suggestive of causality or a common cause

But C is almost 100%, so a correlation of A, B, or (AandB) with C is meaningless unless A and B are completely absent in the very small "not C" population.

The problem is that doctors mostly get to see symptomatic patients, so the data on "not A, not B and not C" is pretty sparse.   
 

Offline Bored chemist

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Re: Was Doctor Andrew Wakefield Right Right After all?
« Reply #5 on: 27/05/2014 11:16:43 »
And, when you have a look at reference viii it says
"Taken together, these results demonstrate that ASDGI children have a gastrointestinal mucosal molecular profile that overlaps significantly with known inflammatory bowel disease (IBD), yet has distinctive features that further supports the presence of an ASD-associated IBD variant, or, alternatively, a prodromal phase of typical inflammatory bowel disease. "

So, that's a genetic glitch in the molecular biology of the intestine. Interesting, but not a link between vaccination and autism.
The paper also doesn't mention vaccination, measles, mumps viral DNA or anything else that would support the link between the MMR vaccine and autism which Dr Wakefield proposed.

Now that may well have "endorsed Wakefield’s original findings by showing molecular changes in the children’s intestinal tissues that were highly distinctive and clearly abnormal.",
But it doesn't say anything about the controversy concerning autism and vaccination which is what got Dr Wakefield into trouble in the first place.
If autism is related to some molecular biology feature of the gut then that's interesting.
It's a potential target for yet more drugs from big pharma.
It's certainly not a threat to them.

So why was he scaremongering about vaccines?
Do you think it might have been anything to do with the fact that he was trying to sell an alternative?

Mind you, the abstract from that report also says
"Comparison of differentially expressed transcripts between the groups demonstrated that non-pathologic (normal) tissue segregated almost completely from inflamed tissue in all cases. Gene expression profiles in intestinal biopsy tissue from patients with Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis, and ASDGI, while having significant overlap with each other, also showed distinctive features for each group. "
which can be summed up as  "Inflamed gut tissue has gene expression features that are missing in healthy tissue".
To which a reasonable reply might be "do you plan to do work on determining the religious beliefs of the Pope and also on the preferred location for ursine defecation?".
Of course it's different from healthy tissue- it's unhealthy.

So, autistic children with inflamed guts (for whatever reason) have patterns of gene expression in that inflamed tissue that resemble those found in tissue which is inflamed due to other conditions like crohn's.
or to grossly simplify it;
Inflamed gut tissue looks like inflamed gut tissue.

Does that look like a vindication of Wakefield's work, or a statement of the obvious?

(Yes, I know that science has to test the obvious too)
« Last Edit: 27/05/2014 11:19:05 by Bored chemist »
 

Offline profound

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Re: Was Doctor Andrew Wakefield Right Right After all?
« Reply #6 on: 13/06/2014 22:33:30 »



So why was he scaremongering about vaccines?
Do you think it might have been anything to do with the fact that he was trying to sell an alternative?







how much money did wakefield make.tell us.

then tell us how much big pharma made.

that will tell who the real fraudsters are...
 
Would the real reason you hate Wakefield so much was that he lost big pharma $3 billion in reduced vaccine sales and people had doubts about safety.

I can just imagine you using dart boards and raging alone like a tornado smashing things because big pharma lost money alone in your room at night. :o
« Last Edit: 13/06/2014 22:39:21 by profound »
 

Offline yellowcat

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Re: Was Doctor Andrew Wakefield Right Right After all?
« Reply #7 on: 17/10/2014 22:52:45 »
I think it unfortunate that striking Wakefield from the medical register was all that the GMC could do.
Financial fraud is a criminal offence, punishable with custodial sentences and fines.
I can see no reason why scientific fraud, as perpetrated by Wakefield should not be a criminal offence or why he should not face fines and imprisonment.

Some of the factors used by the Sentencing Guidelines Council in assessing the seriousness of  offences include:
Culpability and harm
The impact of the offence on the victim.
Harm to persons other than the direct victim
Erosion of public confidence.
Any physical harm or risk of physical harm to the direct victim
or another person.

Wakefield is guilty of causing all of those.
He should have been fined and imprisoned.
« Last Edit: 17/10/2014 22:56:31 by yellowcat »
 

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Re: Was Doctor Andrew Wakefield Right Right After all?
« Reply #7 on: 17/10/2014 22:52:45 »

 

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