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Author Topic: Autoimmune  (Read 5716 times)

Offline lotusbunny

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Autoimmune
« on: 01/09/2006 20:03:30 »
Hi ya all!

Does anyone know anything about autoimmune diseases and what triggers them?

I have autoimmune hypoparathyroidism, and I wonder why at 36 would my body start attacking my endocrine system.

Do you think it is a preprogrammed DNA sequence? Like an alarm clock set to go off at a particular time, or just enviroment etc?

Any ideas?
Debs :)


 

another_someone

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Re: Autoimmune
« Reply #1 on: 01/09/2006 22:23:02 »
Welcome Debs,

Don't think anyone has a definitive answer on autoimmunity, and although it is very likely that, like so many other conditions, genetics may well create a predisposition to it; it is extremely unlikely to be the primary cause.

I would imagine (but maybe someone more qualified will come along and say I am talking total rubbish) it was some sort of infection that caused the immune system to attack the infection, and then get confused between the infection and the body, and continue its attack on the body.  It may even be that there is a viral infection still ongoing, and the cells being attacked are mostly infected cells that are otherwise symptomless, but nonetheless have alerted the immune system.

Anyway I will await someone more medically qualified to rubbish me.



George
 

Offline iko

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Re: Autoimmune
« Reply #2 on: 01/09/2006 22:33:10 »
OOOOps! I finished this short message and realized later that another someone is around, anyway..."Repetita juvant"
Difficult question and I'm not an expert either...
Autoimmune is an overused term unfortunately, to group together and cover nicely the bulk of things that we do not know about several specific disorders.
When the thyroid gland is attacked by antibodies and lymphocytes , it is not able to function and produce adequate amounts of hormones anymore.
It has been suggested that something "external", actually in the environment has happened, some time before and has started a wrong or overidden immune reaction against "something". And some mechanism did't work properly.  HLA (Histocompatibility Leucocyte Antigens) are deeply involved in those 'switches' and are genetically determined: so there in a genetic predisposition.
In many cases it happens in families, specific strains of inbred animals are used as models to study different autoimmune disorders developing with abnormal frequency.
One of the many hypothesis is called "molecular mimicry": during a normal immune response against bacterial or viral antigens (Ag), an abnormal antibody is made.  The antibody designed against a certain Ag binds bacterial/viral Ags but also "similar" molecules bound to our own cells and tissues (Autologous cells).
I tried to explain just one piece of the whole thing.
Do you know how to search on PubMed?
 
I found this recent review for you. I'll see if I spot other bits around.
Genetic susceptibility in thyroid autoimmunity.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16369210&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum
...one example of molecular mimicry...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15671776&query_hl=9&itool=pubmed_docsum
Take care
iko

Post Scriptum: Thank you for the intriguing Dead Zone topic!
« Last Edit: 01/09/2006 23:03:37 by iko »
 

Offline lotusbunny

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Re: Autoimmune
« Reply #3 on: 02/09/2006 10:47:27 »
Wow you two are fantastic!
Talk about brains.

Thank you for your answers, I'm going to study them more indepth. I'm just about to begin a module on Cell and molecular biology with the OU, so I hope that will also help me understand better, at the moment I'm still prepping for it.

I love the idea of symptomless cells, and molecular mimicry, they are on my research list now, it's getting longer by the day, lol

They both make sense, as about 16 years ago I contracted viral pnemonia and then went on to M.E

I feel M.E is somehow related to all of this.I think it could be the link between the viral aspect and environment. At the time of contracting the illness I was working 60hr night shift weeks, I was overweight, both my parents were ill, one in hosp with a quad heart bypass and the other in a diff hosp with cancer, plus my place of work reeked of paint and fumes. I think everything just went into melt down.

I am a definate stress bunny, I wonder how many people with autoimmune problems have the same type of disposition?

I'll have a look on Pubmed, I forgot about that site.

Thanks again :D

Debs

 

Offline iko

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Re: Autoimmune
« Reply #4 on: 02/09/2006 15:19:35 »
quote:
They both make sense, as about 16 years ago I contracted viral pnemonia and then went on to M.E

I feel M.E is somehow related to all of this.I think it could be the link between the viral aspect and environment. At the time of contracting the illness I was working 60hr night shift weeks, I was overweight, both my parents were ill, one in hosp with a quad heart bypass and the other in a diff hosp with cancer, plus my place of work reeked of paint and fumes. I think everything just went into melt down

I think you were quite lucky to get "only" this problem out of a prolonged and hyperstessed life like that.
Sorry Debs, I might sound stupid but ...what's M.E.?
(I learned English from a book!)
iko
 

Offline lotusbunny

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Re: Autoimmune
« Reply #5 on: 02/09/2006 17:41:02 »
Hi Iko,

M.E is short for Myalgic Encephalomyelitis, or chronic Fatigue syndrome. I don't generally use the CFS abbrev as I feel it is grossly misleading to the illness. It's like calling osteoporosis, achy bone syndrome.

I can't belive you learned English that well from a book! I tried to learn Russian from a book once, I never got past the pages and pages of grammer rules, lol
Maybe I'll have time to try again later, I've always wanted to be able to speak another language.
Do you get chance to speak English often, you write it so fluently?

Debs :)
 

another_someone

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Re: Autoimmune
« Reply #6 on: 02/09/2006 18:25:25 »

quote:
Originally posted by lotusbunny
I can't belive you learned English that well from a book! I tried to learn Russian from a book once, I never got past the pages and pages of grammer rules, lol
Maybe I'll have time to try again later, I've always wanted to be able to speak another language.
Do you get chance to speak English often, you write it so fluently?

Debs :)



A bit off topic, but the problem with English is that it is not a very phonetic language, and unlike Italian or German, the way it sounds has relatively little bearing on the way it is written (but still, in my opinion, more phonetic than French and at least you don't have the hassle of grammatical gender which I can never remember for German, and it even has fewer cases than Russian or most other European languages).  Although one problem with British education is that British school children are never taught formal grammar anyway, so the whole concepts involved in learning a foreign grammar is alien to them.

My mother first learnt English from books, and from listening to shortwave radio (although I think it was more the former, so she still had a hard job trying to match the spoken word to the written word when she first came to Britain).



George


« Last Edit: 02/09/2006 18:26:40 by another_someone »
 

Offline iko

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Re: Autoimmune
« Reply #7 on: 02/09/2006 18:30:22 »
quote:
I learned English from a book!
Manuel              from: Fawlty Towers BBC

I was joking, citing Manuel, in a funny British comedy we watch sometime.
Actually I should know English much better: 2yrs in London (79-81) a wife from Massachussets and two grown up boys that speak "real" good English.  I work in a quite provincial environment and have few chances to practice my English.  This forum is helping me a lot.
(I took 1wk off, that helps too!)
"M.E is short for Myalgic Encephalomyelitis, or chronic Fatigue syndrome" thank you for the information...it could have something to do with my favourite topic (Vitamin D&C.) I'll go and Check it out.
The cod liver oil maniac.
iko
« Last Edit: 02/09/2006 18:33:09 by iko »
 

Offline lotusbunny

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Re: Autoimmune
« Reply #8 on: 02/09/2006 20:36:15 »
Oops, don't I feel the wally! [:I] I should have recognised it, I used to watch fawlty towers as a youngster; that and monty python.

I'd be very interested to what you come up with on the Vit D front. With the Hypoparathyroidism, Vit D and Calcium are my main problems.
I'd love to know if there is a relation with Vit D and M.E

Are you researching vits?

Digressing abit; I'm trying to find out some quantitive data on blood bromide levels and occurance, in the pacific north west. Do you know of any good health/stat sites?

Debs
 

Offline iko

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Re: Autoimmune
« Reply #9 on: 02/09/2006 22:45:44 »
I work in blood confusion...no, transfusion! I always liked biochemistry and cofactors: I was lucky to have a super-professor in general pathology. Most of my actual interest in cofactors is in the childhood leukemia topic of this forum. You may have a look...
I work on PubMed or Google only: I don't know other tricks, sorry,
bye
iko
« Last Edit: 03/09/2006 20:21:23 by iko »
 

Offline iko

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Re: Autoimmune
« Reply #10 on: 03/09/2006 15:53:56 »
...How is it possible that vitamin D can have such a wide range of therapeutic and health-related benefits? The answer lies in the fact that the VDR (Vitamin D Receptor) is present in most cells and tissues in the body.  1,25(OH)2 D is one of the most potent regulators of cellular growth in both normal and cancer cells...

from a recent review (free access) you can save in your basket:

Holick MF.   Am J Clin Nutr. 2004 Dec;80(6 Suppl):1678S-88S.
 
Sunlight and vitamin D for bone health and prevention of autoimmune diseases, cancers, and cardiovascular disease.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15585788&query_hl=8&itool=pubmed_docsum

Addendum + picture:
quote:
We may be paying a very high price for our rejection of parental wisdom to take our cod liver oil.
Krispin Sullivan 2002



Fish tale  From cod liver to fatty acids, fish oil has long been considered healthy, but some say the current versions may do more harm than good.
(for a change, here is one of the few negative news about 'cod').

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/health_science/articles/2004/04/20/fish_tale/

Note:
fish liver oils contain vit.A+Vit.D3+omega-3 fatty acids.
fish oils contain omega-3 fatty acids mainly.

Vit.A&Vit.D3 are fat-soluble and do accumulate in the body: doses higher than reccomended may lead to toxicity.
 
iko

(Debs: why do you specifically search for bromide levels only?)
« Last Edit: 04/09/2006 22:21:04 by iko »
 

Offline lotusbunny

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Re: Autoimmune
« Reply #11 on: 05/09/2006 12:52:20 »
I'm particulary interested in bromide levels as the red algae are able to release methyl bromide into the atmosphere, plus it can dissolve in ocean water from volcanic emmisions.
 The range of health problems associated with it seem to be presenting themselves in the Oregon state, at a higher level than the rest of the US.
I haven't got any conclusive data of course, but I'm just interested in the possibility of anthropogic levels of fertilizer, although within goverment levels, have not taken into consideration the affects of particular phytoplanton and volcanic/ seismic activity.
I expect, I am barking up the wrong tree, but I love to research things when I find an interesting subject.
I'm also trying to write dissertations on this and other subjects, as I hope to do a couple of dissertation modules for my degree. So when I've collated as much info as I can, I'm going to write it out as if it was an exam. I want to pass my modules with firsts.
I managed to pass my human biology at 85% in April, so I'm going for it :)
Have to say, I am tiring at the moment.
I'm also trying to find another job that I can cope with, so I'm not going to do too much at the moment, otherwise I will relapse.

Debs
 

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Re: Autoimmune
« Reply #11 on: 05/09/2006 12:52:20 »

 

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