The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: The Sun is getting hotter !  (Read 26657 times)

Offline Soul Surfer

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3345
  • keep banging the rocks together
    • View Profile
    • ian kimber's web workspace
Re: The Sun is getting hotter !
« Reply #25 on: 18/09/2006 09:57:14 »
The most direct ways are solar cells which have no storage capability a very high energy input to manufacture them and are relatively inefficient and low grade heat which currently has very limited uses.  These processes could still be used as part of a multi process energy station the carbon capture process takes the high carbon dioxide flue gasses from burning carbon based fuels and reprocesses them catalytically back to short chain hydrocarbons using sunlight.  These hydrocarbons can be used to make energy locally or converted into road fuel.

Learn, create, test and tell
evolution rules in all things
God says so!
 

another_someone

  • Guest
Re: The Sun is getting hotter !
« Reply #26 on: 18/09/2006 12:31:57 »
quote:
Originally posted by Soul Surfer
The most direct ways are solar cells which have no storage capability a very high energy input to manufacture them and are relatively inefficient and low grade heat which currently has very limited uses.  These processes could still be used as part of a multi process energy station the carbon capture process takes the high carbon dioxide flue gasses from burning carbon based fuels and reprocesses them catalytically back to short chain hydrocarbons using sunlight.  These hydrocarbons can be used to make energy locally or converted into road fuel.



Solar cells do convert sunlight (at present with only about 12% efficiency, but no doubt this will improve over time).  There are various technologies that can be used to store excess energy from solar cells, some more mature than others.  At present, converting CO2 to hydrocarbons is anything but mature technology (although converting coal to hydrocarbons is a well established, if less than efficient, technology).  At present, power conversion from carbon based fuels is limited to about 20% to 30% efficiency, so any cycle that expects to recycle using current technology must lose 70% to 80% of its energy in each cycle.

There may be practical advantages in using such an inefficient cycle in some cases (such as the convenience of the fuel for transportation use), but it would seem to be an expensive cycle if one can more freely select the means of energy storage.



George
 

Offline unlucky

  • First timers
  • *
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
The Sun is getting hotter !
« Reply #27 on: 10/07/2007 22:02:19 »
I'm not sure where the technology is regard to converting CO2 back C & O2 is, but in the meantime how about clean burning synthetic fuels.  See the link below for details:

newbielink:http://www.cffs.uky.edu/C1/2005%20Meeting/WPAFB%20Harrison%20Invited.pdf [nonactive]

With regard to more efficient solar cells have a look at Ovonic is doing.  They claim to capture and convert 20% more of the sun's energy than conventional crystalline solar cells and convert it to power.  Check out these two links:

newbielink:http://www.ovonic.com/eb_so_solar_overview.cfm [nonactive]
newbielink:http://www.ovonic.com/se_ovonic_machine_building_division.cfm [nonactive]

  I also read an article on line that some guy has come up with a paint on solar conversion coating that converts infrared ( of the sun's output) to electricity.  Think of the possibilities of two technologies combined.

Steve
 

another_someone

  • Guest
The Sun is getting hotter !
« Reply #28 on: 10/07/2007 23:40:14 »
I'm not sure where the technology is regard to converting CO2 back C & O2 is, but in the meantime how about clean burning synthetic fuels.

Ironically, one of the demonstrable contributors to global warming in the last couple of decades of the 20th century is caused by the reduction of sulphur and particulate pollution - the exact same thing that this technology would be taking even further.

Certainly, there may be arguments on other grounds for going down this road (although it is open to question whether removing all 'pollution' is necessarily desirable), but it will not only not do anything to reduce global warming, but will most likely contribute to it.
 

another_someone

  • Guest
The Sun is getting hotter !
« Reply #29 on: 11/07/2007 00:54:17 »
With regard to more efficient solar cells have a look at Ovonic is doing.  They claim to capture and convert 20% more of the sun's energy than conventional crystalline solar cells and convert it to power.  Check out these two links:

http://www.ovonic.com/eb_so_solar_overview.cfm
http://www.ovonic.com/se_ovonic_machine_building_division.cfm

  I also read an article on line that some guy has come up with a paint on solar conversion coating that converts infrared ( of the sun's output) to electricity.  Think of the possibilities of two technologies combined.

Steve

There are a number of lab based systems (using a wide range of technologies, some very interesting) that have demonstrated conversion rates of about 40%, considerably higher than the 12% that is common today.  The problem still is moving from the lab to the streets.


In some ways, one of the problems we have is that the push to scale up current technologies always creates a greater barrier for new technologies (unless they are merely an enhancement of a current technology, and don't require abandoning the investment in current technology).
 

Offline syhprum

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3823
  • Thanked: 19 times
    • View Profile
The Sun is getting hotter !
« Reply #30 on: 11/07/2007 08:06:24 »
The technology for converting CO2 back to C and O2 has been around for at least 200 million years, it uses sunlight and catalyst's such as Chlorophyll and is called vegetation
 

another_someone

  • Guest
The Sun is getting hotter !
« Reply #31 on: 11/07/2007 08:38:11 »
The technology for converting CO2 back to C and O2 has been around for at least 200 million years, it uses sunlight and catalyst's such as Chlorophyll and is called vegetation

I think that has been around more like 3.5 billion years, not 200 million.

The problem is that firstly people are saying it is not coping - don't know if they are right, but if they are wrong, then what are we worrying about CO2 levels in the atmosphere for?

The second problem is what happens to the C that is fixed by this method.  Most of it is promptly converted back to CO2 by animals and microbes and other living organisms, while we continue to extract fossil fuels to burn.  If we were to use our own methods for converting CO2 back to C and O2, then we would reduce the amount of CO2 available for plants to convert, which will then steel the C from animals and microbes to convert back to CO2.
 

Offline Bored chemist

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8676
  • Thanked: 42 times
    • View Profile
The Sun is getting hotter !
« Reply #32 on: 11/07/2007 20:27:40 »
Converting CO2 back to C isn't the big problem. Finding the energy to do it is.
 

another_someone

  • Guest
The Sun is getting hotter !
« Reply #33 on: 11/07/2007 22:13:44 »
Converting CO2 back to C isn't the big problem. Finding the energy to do it is.

But the efficiency by which it can be done has an impact on how much energy is required to do it.
 

Offline jamier1122

  • First timers
  • *
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
The Sun is getting hotter !
« Reply #34 on: 19/02/2008 05:57:22 »
ever heard of sun spots, the sun is going to continue its current life cycle for (aprox.)      5 billion more years!
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

The Sun is getting hotter !
« Reply #34 on: 19/02/2008 05:57:22 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums