# The Naked Scientists Forum

### Author Topic: How can we reconcile electromagnetism and gravity?  (Read 16049 times)

#### acsinuk

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##### Re: How can we reconcile electromagnetism and gravity?
« Reply #50 on: 29/09/2014 09:21:13 »
We accept that the photon is an energy carrier; but it is not a particle nor a wave but more probably a volume of magnoflux field which can be vibrated by a pyramid shaped pulse of electromagnetically light as energy.  That's what I think?
CliveS

#### JohnDuffield

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##### Re: How can we reconcile electromagnetism and gravity?
« Reply #51 on: 29/09/2014 09:25:24 »
The only correction that needs to be applied here is this:

The photon is not absorbed by the electron, however, some of the energy that the photon possesses can be transferred to the electron.

The mistake the layman makes here is to assume that the photon is energy when in fact, the photon only carries varying amounts of energy. The photon is a wave/particle, it is not energy.
I'm afraid this doesn't square with Einstein's E=mc² paper where Einstein said "If a body gives off the energy L in the form of radiation, its mass diminishes by L/c²". The photon is a wave where E=hf and E= hc/λ. It's a form of energy. If you take all the energy out of a wave it isn't there any more. Think about what would happen if you did another Compton scatter on the residual photon, and another and another. In the limit all the photon energy has been converted into the kinetic energy of electrons, and the photon is gone.

#### Ethos_

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##### Re: How can we reconcile electromagnetism and gravity?
« Reply #52 on: 29/09/2014 17:18:14 »
The only correction that needs to be applied here is this:

The photon is not absorbed by the electron, however, some of the energy that the photon possesses can be transferred to the electron.

The mistake the layman makes here is to assume that the photon is energy when in fact, the photon only carries varying amounts of energy. The photon is a wave/particle, it is not energy.
I'm afraid this doesn't square with Einstein's E=mc² paper where Einstein said "If a body gives off the energy L in the form of radiation, its mass diminishes by L/c²".
Firstly, the photon is massless and it's energy is in the form of momentum. Having no mass, the only loss of energy results thru lowered momentum. Even when experiments has shown to slow down the photon, upon exiting the retarding medium, the photon returns to c. What does this tell you about the photon's ability to recover it's initial momentum?

#### JohnDuffield

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##### Re: How can we reconcile electromagnetism and gravity?
« Reply #53 on: 29/09/2014 18:12:28 »
Firstly, the photon is massless and it's energy is in the form of momentum. Having no mass, the only loss of energy results thru lowered momentum. Even when experiments has shown to slow down the photon, upon exiting the retarding medium, the photon returns to c. What does this tell you about the photon's ability to recover it's initial momentum?
Nothing. The photon energy is E=hf and the momentum is p=hf/c. The momentum is reduced after Compton scattering because the frequency is reduced. Interestingly, the photon is decelerated. It doesn't slow down, it keeps on moving at c. But it does change direction. That's acceleration in the vector sense.

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##### Re: How can we reconcile electromagnetism and gravity?
« Reply #53 on: 29/09/2014 18:12:28 »