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Author Topic: What would you say to Henry VIII in say 1540AD ? or John Capri in 2340AD?  (Read 7269 times)

Offline allan marsh

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Imaginering I had a conversation with Henry the eighth in 1540. he was quite bright about science and knowledge in 1540.
my conversation got over all the problems like kings and queens and he was half able to understand metal ships and most military changes. Aircraft was hard for him to understand which really started not long after this date in history.
understanding space and rockets as well as the concept of where God was not!! was accepted.
the converstaion progressed until we got to Radio and then television. Trying to explain the video conference between London and York "instantaniously" was the point he became angry. These are Black Magic and works of the Devil he said before throwing me out with a few anglo saxon words.
This was only 400 years ago + which is not many life times!!

So my question to you as great scientist!!  what 400 years from now can you honestly say will be Black Magic and works of the devil???  "The Unknown Unknown??
come on lets read what you seriously can come up with. I have already written half the book where I have the conversation with a "JOHN CAPRI" in the year 2340 AD   I am curious to Know if you can accept this challenge?!!
I am serious and hope you can join in seriously even if it has to be under a false nome de plume!
« Last Edit: 10/10/2014 17:30:14 by allan marsh »


 

Offline chiralSPO

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My first thought would be a machine that synthesizes adult human beings from inanimate raw materials. Well beyond anything we could hope to accomplish in the next few generations, but in principal (as far as I know) could be done.

My second thought would be technology that allows complete mind control over a human subject--not just altering moods or creating desires/fears, which some of which we can do now--but actual puppeteering.
 

Offline alancalverd

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My first thought would be a machine that synthesizes adult human beings from inanimate raw materials. Well beyond anything we could hope to accomplish in the next few generations, but in principal (as far as I know) could be done.

It's called a mother. Takes a few years to produce an adult, but that's the fun time.

However given the inexorable rise of superstition and the probable self-extinction of the industrial world during the next 100 years, I guess pretty much everything we take for granted, like democracy, discussion, electricity, medicine, and even logical thought, will be banned in the foreseeable future. Anyone living beyond the age of 40 will be suspect if they haven't been killed for taking up too much room, or wondering where this bizarre notion of God's Word came from. 
 

Offline yor_on

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Awh, da*n :)

I sincerely hope that you're wrong there Alan. A world without logics would surely be boring. And I put a great hope into the invention of the Internet, for educating ourselves. The question might be if we really want too though? Maybe we prefer not to, I don't really know. Although, I still hope your predictions will be shown wrong.

Think mine impossibility would be everyone being mind readers, that should surely destroy society as we know it, no matter our religious, or otherwise, faith :) Or it would at least make it really complicated to live.
 

Offline chiralSPO

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Alan, you know full well that there is a major difference between a mother and the machine I proposed. The mother proves that it is possible by biological means, whereas the machine requires a non-biological means of animating matter. Were the latter shown to be possible it would be a significant advance our understanding of biology (and apparently metaphysics as well...)

Out of curiosity, are you paid to be a curmudgeon, or do you do it for pleasure?
 

Offline jeffreyH

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Why is Alan wrong? We have to face up to the fact that as a species we will never grow up. A grown up faces up to responsibilities and tries to make things better not worse. Instead of thinkiong of what wonders we have instore we should be trying to prevent the horrors that people like to inflict on each other. Let's leave the schoolyard behind.
 

Offline alancalverd

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Out of curiosity, are you paid to be a curmudgeon, or do you do it for pleasure?

More out of a sense of duty to society.

Early in my civil service career I was criticised for not suffering fools gladly. I explained that I had not expected to meet any. The matter was never raised again.

Why the gloomy outlook? History shows us how the common herd of humanity has been oppressed by -isms throughout the centuries. A couple of generations ago we barely escaped worldwide nazism because the allies had superior -ologies, and on the other side of the globe, thinking people were almost eradicated by Maoism. When everyone has equal access to ologies, the world will be ruled by whichever ism requires the least amount of thinking and promises the greatest rewards in the hereafter (because these are easier to deliver than real rewards in the here and now).

I strongly commend anyone to find a copy of "The Year of the Sex Olympics" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Year_of_the_Sex_Olympics to see just how accurate Nigel Kneale's 1968 Orwellian vision has turned out to be, and project it forward to the days when the descendants of today's oil sheikhs own everything, including your great grandchildren - because all the ologies rely on oil that is owned by an ism.
« Last Edit: 08/10/2014 23:34:47 by alancalverd »
 

Offline evan_au

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I assume that "JOHN CAPRI" is a nanobot living in the Andromeda Galaxy?  ;)
 

Offline alancalverd

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Isn't he the son of Ford Prefect?
 

Offline PmbPhy

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Quote from: allan marsh
So my question to you as great scientist!!  what 400 years from now can you honestly say will be Black Magic and works of the devil???  "The Unknown Unknown??
Nothing. There has been a change in paradigm in thinking between his time and our time. Back then there was no understanding of physics. The field didn't even exist. Science was unknown back then and nobody had any understanding of how nature worked. That's all changed. We now view nature quite differently than back then. We don't even have a concept of black magic now (or at least I don't) and there's no such thing as a devil. Now and in the future everything can be explained scientifically, either now or hopefully in the future. By this I mean that if we don't understand something now then it's conceivable that we might be able to in the future, i.e. it's knowable.

Recall how the term supernatural is defined
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/supernatural
Quote
1: of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially :  of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil

2 a :  departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature
 
b :  attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit)
Take the first sentence to start with of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe. People who have believed in the supernatural and relied on things outside the visible universe did so because things outside this universe effects what's going on in this universe. Think about the concept of multiple universes. This is no different than what would in previous centuries be thought of as the supernatural. A Christian might think of heaven as another universe spatially separated from our own.

In ages past people described the world using God, the devil an demons in order to understand this one. We won't be reverting back to this way of thinking. If a being presents themselves to us with the abilities of a God or demon we'll consider them not to be supernatural being but as intelligent life forms alien to earth and our existence.

The next sentence reads - departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature. If we ever observe something that appears to transcend the laws of nature and we determine that we aren't mistaken in what we observe then we change the laws of physics to encompass it and it therein is encompassed by the laws of physics.

The last sentence reads - attributed to an invisible agent. We can also encompass such observations within the laws of nature. Magnetism and electrostatics would be described that way to ancient peoples. Something new would be included in the laws of nature.

The only problem here is that some things are of such a nature as to not lend themselves to scientific study such as UFO's. I certainly believe in the phenomena of UFOs whether they be a hoax, atmospheric anomalies (such as ball lightning) or something not yet understood. Perhaps even real aliens.

So with this in mind I can't see me ever resorting to Black Magic to describe anything I witness.
 

Offline chiralSPO

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Out of curiosity, are you paid to be a curmudgeon, or do you do it for pleasure?

More out of a sense of duty to society.



Well then, as a member of society, "thank you." (no sarcasm intended--it is important to have a reality check now and then, and it is always good to have someone to debate these things with)
 

Offline yor_on

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Don't worry Alan, both Chiral and me have fun arguing with you, The trick is to think by yourself, and myself I think you do that splendidly.
 

Offline allan marsh

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Your doing a great job, some a little fun but I,d love a few more to imagine the unknown unknown!

Humanity had many senses but imagination appears to be one of the main difference between us and species.
It was suggested in one response that in 1540 there was no science!
I ask you first to define science before you extend that path
Ask Aristotle why a stone falls to the ground and he would answer that is its place in nature, and he tested this by philosophy and what could be called measurement .

Come on folk only 11 bright responses but seriously it's a great question. I would love to hear from Stephen Hawkins !
 

Offline evan_au

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At the dystopian extreme for 2340: "Which are the best rocks for making hand axes?"
« Last Edit: 11/10/2014 12:26:08 by evan_au »
 

Offline jeffreyH

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Isn't he the son of Ford Prefect?

Not quite. Son of Ford Capri. Made of old engine parts and commodore 64 boards. With a microsoft neural net brain that says this android has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down.
 

Offline alancalverd

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Humanity had many senses but imagination appears to be one of the main difference between us and species.

By 2300, two major changes had occurred in the relationship between humans and other species.

Research by the brilliant descendants of Alan Calverd had unravelled the defect in many human brains that prevented them from communicating effectively with their closest allies, and once homo sapiens had learned to listen to dogs instead of shouting at them, the gates were open to a wider range of understanding. The Calverd auto-species debabbulator implant provided a direct neural input from the speech of all the great apes and some monkeys, and a minor technical development added cetacea, pigs, and a few other omnivores.

It was quickly realised that the intellectual vanity of homo sapiens was indeed no more than vanity, and most other species despised "hom sap" for its absurd gullibility (chimpanzee standups often begin their routine with "a man goes into a church..." at which point the audience screams with derision) and inability to restrict its own population to the available food resources (lemmings were considered mildly sympathetic, but (a) apparent sympathy is part of Nordic culture and (b) the debabbulator, baffled by their Norwegian accent, attempted to translate Lemming into equally unintelligible Welsh). Humanity lost much of the will to live.

The physical problem for humanity began when chimpanzee surgeons (the growth of health service adminstration and inspection was so rapid that, by 2060, there was no money left to pay surgeons, but plenty of peanuts) moved on from orthopaedics to neurosurgery and discovered that they could implant the debabbulator in pretty much any other species. Although almost every animal had known for years that humans were either food or competition for food, none had acquired the adaptability to fight homo sapiens by itself. But as soon as they were able to communicate clearly between species they shared out tasks and collaborated in the enslavement of homo sapiens. Numbers were restricted by controlled breeding, the old and infirm were killed off, and the proper place of Man in the world, as a flexible robot, was established. 
« Last Edit: 10/10/2014 07:51:53 by alancalverd »
 

Offline alancalverd

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"You put your what into her which?" screamed the Inquisitor. "And then you 'jiggled about a bit' and made a miniature human?" He shuddered at the mere thought of contact between Type A and Type A humans*, which had been banned way back in the 21st century when the legal costs ran out of control. "What devilry is this? Pleasure is dispensed by licensed chemists and crapontellymakers, and replacement humans are imported from Poland!**" 



*footnote: originally designated Type A and Type B, the distinction was ruled discriminatory and the Emperor Penguin (later known as the Fascist Dictator Penguin) Rule was introduced, whereby all members of the species, and later several related species ("species" having been abandoned because  Creationsts didn't understand it) were to be called Type A Creatures of God. 

**formerly "the EU" until everyone else ran out of money and forgot how to make anything other than rules 
« Last Edit: 10/10/2014 09:01:00 by alancalverd »
 

Offline allan marsh

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Sorry folks I've changed henry XIII to henry VIII in case your Roman runic letters was not noticed!
 

Offline allan marsh

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Population of earth 500,000 in 2340 AD  try that one and why?
 

Offline alancalverd

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"The question" said the Chief Dolphin "is whether we treat the remaining half million or so humans as an endangered species or just the remnant of a parasite we have been trying to get rid of for the last million years".   

"I suggest" said the Head of Dolfun "that we build an airquarium and teach some of them a few tricks to amuse the kids".

They turned to the Lord Privy Seal for an opinion. After a brief consultation with his advisers he said "I doubt that it would bring in much of a crowd. They can't swim all that well, or jump particularly high, catch fish in their mouths, or balance a ball on their noses. In fact they are pretty useless as workers or entertainment. Whilst they are  not a great threat to the squid population, they are expensive to keep and represent something of an evolutionary dead end."

The vote to eradicate the species known to itself as homo sapiens was passed by acclamation.  There are no known skeletons in any public museums.
« Last Edit: 10/10/2014 18:36:34 by alancalverd »
 

Offline yor_on

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 Alan, you're something of a word smith, in the best British tradition, go for it.
=

(Just don't present it as a children's books please, they have this (unfortunate sometimes) tendency to take one at ones word, doing so, I then predict their parents to come come knocking at your door :) Wanting to exchange some words with you. Otherwise, it's pretty decent writing.)
« Last Edit: 10/10/2014 20:43:30 by yor_on »
 

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