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Author Topic: Any complex chemical reactions system perceives itself as life!!  (Read 8979 times)

Offline minass

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In the chemical machine of the human body, the first and initial substrates that fuels everything are the products of the interaction between food, gut bacteria and gut epithelial cells. Theoretically, in a mechanistic way, alterations in these initial complexes can profoundly influence the function of the entire body. We are just beginning to explore this…

On the other hand, cancer immunotherapy constitutes one of the most promising new areas of research, as it is known that some patients can achieve vigorous tumor responses. However, only a minority can benefit. The question is why, and what can we do to unlock this mechanism of tumor destruction in more and more patients.

A ground braking research published in “Science” (Sivan et al.) very recently has shown that by selectively modulating gut bacteria, you can boost a strong anti-tumor effect of specific immune cells to destroy the tumor cells. To my opinion, this is very important step in our effort to unlock and exploit the immune system towards the directions we want…
 

Offline deejayms

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is a virus not something that feeds off something else meaning humanity itself is a virus? at present it appears we are overpopulating the earth and draining it of it;s natural resources. ever seen the matrix? lol

humanity after all is just another cluster of cells feeding off the earth. within each virus is another virus to the molecular level, thats the food chain? viruses to all levels are within us at all times - its only when our immune system is at it;s lowest that the virus takes over. causes for our immune system being low can range from constant bad diet, stress and discontentment within. thats why intelligence can be a curse sometimes too many questions! meditation is key to finding some balance there.

survival of the fittest will mean we or the virus will attack weeker or older cells first theoretically leaving only strong ones left to multiply, kinda like ethnic cleansing. that could bring reasoning to racism also. when you throw a foreign cell in the works it gets rejected again and again until its ready to be accepted. 90% of humans i deduced are plain stupid - no self awareness do today what was done yesterday, give me the boy to age 7 and i'll give you the man is how it roles just like every other mammal so if you take a black man and throw him in a white community. the "cells" will reject him.

books have been written about the exact similarities to the human race as to cellular make up of the human body - formation of cummunities, rejection of foreign cells, attraction, reproduction and death. the cellular make up of us is a mirror image of humanity and imagine our body as being the world.





 

Offline minass

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Yep, complex chemistry always behaves in the same way!! The struggle of virus, bacteria, animals, etc is what you perceive if you ignore that all these are tales of chemical reactions.

Apart from this, complex chemistry usually increases the entropy of the system over time. So, expect a constant entropic increase of what we call: "Life as a whole".
 

Offline chiralSPO

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is a virus not something that feeds off something else meaning humanity itself is a virus? at present it appears we are overpopulating the earth and draining it of it;s natural resources. ever seen the matrix? lol

humanity after all is just another cluster of cells feeding off the earth. within each virus is another virus to the molecular level, thats the food chain? viruses to all levels are within us at all times - its only when our immune system is at it;s lowest that the virus takes over. causes for our immune system being low can range from constant bad diet, stress and discontentment within. thats why intelligence can be a curse sometimes too many questions! meditation is key to finding some balance there.

survival of the fittest will mean we or the virus will attack weeker or older cells first theoretically leaving only strong ones left to multiply, kinda like ethnic cleansing. that could bring reasoning to racism also. when you throw a foreign cell in the works it gets rejected again and again until its ready to be accepted. 90% of humans i deduced are plain stupid - no self awareness do today what was done yesterday, give me the boy to age 7 and i'll give you the man is how it roles just like every other mammal so if you take a black man and throw him in a white community. the "cells" will reject him.

books have been written about the exact similarities to the human race as to cellular make up of the human body - formation of cummunities, rejection of foreign cells, attraction, reproduction and death. the cellular make up of us is a mirror image of humanity and imagine our body as being the world.

No, this line of thinking doesn't really hold up to scrutiny.

Viruses don't feed on anything--they depend on other organisms to "do" everything, the virus is just a set of instructions in a special box that can protect and deliver the contents (rather like a computer virus).

Just because we can understand multicellular animals as "communities" does not mean that this is a good analogy. This probably works best because we understand communities well, and there are some parallels. We can also think of them as collections of little machines, but that doesn't mean that living things are necessarily machines (though I think they essentially are), and it certainly doesn't mean that machines are alive.

Viruses don't attack weak cells, they prefer the strong healthy ones that can produce zillions of new virus particles. And your arguments go down from there.

I don't even know what:

"90% of humans i deduced are plain stupid - no self awareness do today what was done yesterday, give me the boy to age 7 and i'll give you the man is how it roles just like every other mammal so if you take a black man and throw him in a white community. the "cells" will reject him. "

even means, but it is certainly ironic that you claim 90% of humans are plain stupid, and then go on to string together one big run-on sentence to demonstrate the point...
 

Offline minass

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In a system in which living beings are mechanistic systems of chemical reactions, actually what is there is extremely complex (and complicated) chemical automatons. Aging comes as a process that involves a change in chemical systasis of the system over time, as the phenotypes of  younger and older organisms are different.
As we said, this implicates that we can theoretically control the change rate, by controlling the initial substrates of the system (e.g. food, gut bacteria). In theory you can have a certain combination of initial substrates and environmental factors in which changes in the living system are reduced to a minimum.
But, how do we know how to reach this state of stability?
Answer: By analyzing the end products of the system. If they have constant synthesis, this means that the chemical reactions are repeated as they are, and no changes occur. If their synthesis changes, it is an indicator that we must modify the initial substrates.
This method can also serve as a way to experimentally test this theory, because if the rate of stability of the gut content is correlated with aging delay, it means that actually living beings are in fact chemical automatons, and it would open new ways to approach human diseases…

Just a thought!!
 

Offline minass

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In a recent paper scientists are proposing a way that the very first species started Darwinian evolution. The first species presumably came from mixed genetic material withut well defined species. http://phys.org/news/2015-11-species-darwinian-evolution.html

On the other hand, the chemical reaction theory I support claims that chemical reactions are everything that matters and thus, complex nucleic acids are the consequence of life, as they are the result of the natural history of complex chemical reactions. RNA and DNA are hallmarks of complexity, a part of the system, an intermediate station, not the starting point.

On the other hand, from the paper that I referenced, it is evident that scientists make the unsupported assumption that in the beginning there was a big genetic jumble. In other words, they think that nucleic acids were created first, as the basis of all life.
However:
a)Not all organisms have nucleic acids (e.g. prions)
b)Even if you cut nucleic acids in every kind of way, if you isolate them and you place countless of them together, even after billions of years, this will not result in what we call as life!
 

Offline minass

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Question: How can systems of primordial and inorganic chemical reactions with the help of external energy can avoid chemical equilibrium and go towards a constantly increasing complexity state?
Answer: First of all, if you have a large number of initial substrates and they are reacting with other bidirectly, then the number of substates will be increasing by time. Additionally, at the time that organic molecules with different stereochemistry will be formed, then the possibility of equilibrium will be virtually vanished, as now the possible ways of molecular interactions would be infinite. In fact, after some time, only organic-based reactions will be present and selected, because all the others would be lost in equilibrium.
In conclusion, we see that a perpetually increasingly complex system of organic chemicals with infinite stereochemical variations can easily be created, provided there is a source of external energy in the system. As a result of this complex system, nucleic acids will be formed (inevitably), as well as membranes. Thus, the latter are both not necessarily the starting point of life, as they can easily occur as a consequence of life.
 

Offline puppypower

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Question: How can systems of primordial and inorganic chemical reactions with the help of external energy can avoid chemical equilibrium and go towards a constantly increasing complexity state?
Answer: First of all, if you have a large number of initial substrates and they are reacting with other bidirectly, then the number of substates will be increasing by time. Additionally, at the time that organic molecules with different stereochemistry will be formed, then the possibility of equilibrium will be virtually vanished, as now the possible ways of molecular interactions would be infinite. In fact, after some time, only organic-based reactions will be present and selected, because all the others would be lost in equilibrium.
In conclusion, we see that a perpetually increasingly complex system of organic chemicals with infinite stereochemical variations can easily be created, provided there is a source of external energy in the system. As a result of this complex system, nucleic acids will be formed (inevitably), as well as membranes. Thus, the latter are both not necessarily the starting point of life, as they can easily occur as a consequence of life.


The basis for life evolving increasing complexity can be explained with the simple system of water and oil. If we take water and oil, add energy via agitation, we will get an emulsion where water and oil become mixed into a lotion. Any entropy increase will take energy, with the energy of agitation allowing entropy to increase. If we stop adding energy the emulsion will reverse back into two phases; water and oil separate. Water and oil is an example of order appearing from disorder.

The water in life is antagonist to the organics; the water and oil affect. When water and organics come together there is always some potential created. Water and oil is the extreme case. Oil and water lower this energy by separating into two phases. All the organelles of cells are like separate phases in the water.The cell is a phase diagram of water and organics since folding and packing is done through hydrophobic interactions; phase separate.

Since water and oil are two separate things, in contact, working as one system, the second law requires that the entropy of the entire system has to increase. However, in the case of water and oil, they do not mix very well. The work around for the second law is the oil and/or water have to change so they can blend and satisfy the second law.

This can occur via dissolving other components into the water and/or the oil; extraction, as well as chemical change in each phase. Water is simple and can't change too much. Organics, on the other hand, can form endless variations. The best place of entropy increase was via the organics. One important change was the organics evolved hydrogen bonding to help lowering the potential with water. Water is based on hydrogen bonding so this concession to water was expected.

Since water and organics, are always creating at least some potential, even with change, the result will be new phases separating out to reflect the lowering of energy.

Cells constantly gather food resources needed for metabolism and the long term needs of cycle cycles. These food materials contain reduced carbon and nitrogen which adds back some of the oil and water affect. This perpetuates the needs for increasing the entropy due to the constant addition of the water oil affect to the cell system. The result is increasing complexity.

If you include the water evolution is not exactly random, as assumed, but reflects pathways toward increasing entropy. Entropy is a state variable meaning entropy will have a fixed value for a given state of matter. If we measure water at 25C the entropy value is always the same no matter who measures it. The value of entropy is connected to this state. To get the entropy to change the water needs to change into another state. This is done via the organics. Evolution is a movement between distinct states of organic entropy driven by the second law in light of the constant resistant created by the water-oil affect.

The DNA is the most hydrated molecule in the cell. This means the DNA was inevitable because it reflects an organic change that minimizes the energy with water; opposite of water and oil.
« Last Edit: 08/12/2015 13:36:25 by puppypower »
 

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