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Author Topic: FAO Exodus  (Read 14796 times)

Offline Andy28

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Re: FAO Exodus
« Reply #50 on: 25/09/2006 16:28:20 »
Unless you have had a loved one murdered then you really can't know weather the death penalty is right or wrong. I very much doubt that if someone raped and murdered your daughter that you would want to treat them with compassion and spare them the suffering of a death sentence.
 

Offline Karen W.

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Re: FAO Exodus
« Reply #51 on: 25/09/2006 16:35:01 »
I have had several Loved ones murdered, did you not read my post...??? I still feel the same... Maybe you should read it again, as I believe you missed it!! You missed the whole point of my post!

Karen
« Last Edit: 25/09/2006 16:36:52 by Karen W. »
 

Offline Andy28

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Re: FAO Exodus
« Reply #52 on: 25/09/2006 20:30:36 »
Karen you are in the minority. If someone ever killed someone who meant something to me they would be dealt with by me never mind by the courts.  How can you be so forgiving? Everyone to their own i suppose.
 

Offline Gaia

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Re: FAO Exodus
« Reply #53 on: 25/09/2006 20:32:52 »
quote:
Originally posted by Andy28

Karen you are in the minority. If someone ever killed someone who meant something to me they would be dealt with by me never mind by the courts.  How can you be so forgiving? Everyone to their own i suppose.



Andy, strikes me that you are in the minority, both in the UK and especially on this thread!!!

Gaia  xxx
 

Offline Andy28

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Re: FAO Exodus
« Reply #54 on: 25/09/2006 20:36:11 »
Not in real life though Gaia. 75% of americans support the death penalty and many Brits support it also. The trouble is our government won't re - introduce it no matter how many people vote for it to be reinstated.
 

Offline moonfire

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Re: FAO Exodus
« Reply #55 on: 26/09/2006 05:20:18 »
Andy, I admire your stand on your belief.  I know it is important even if you are a minority on an issue.  The government is looking at the value of money from the people, when people live longer in prison we, the free people on the outside pay for their living expenses....but, a human life is a human life.  I know the old addage of an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.  But if you had someone that you loved killed, could you possibly see it inside yourself (even though you are angry)to kill that person through revenge?

"Lo" Loretta
 

another_someone

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Re: FAO Exodus
« Reply #56 on: 26/09/2006 05:43:29 »
quote:
Originally posted by Andy28
If someone ever killed someone who meant something to me they would be dealt with by me never mind by the courts.  How can you be so forgiving? Everyone to their own i suppose.



I think the key issue is if - the reality, you cannot know (and nor can I) how we would react to such trauma until we actually go through it.
On a broader issue, which do you consider more successful, the 'truth and reconciliation commission' instigated in South Africa to bring an end to the violence of the past, or the cycle of vengeance currently happening in Iraq?



George
 

Offline Andy28

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Re: FAO Exodus
« Reply #57 on: 26/09/2006 07:19:22 »
You've lost me now, lol. Too broad.
 

Offline Karen W.

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Re: FAO Exodus
« Reply #58 on: 26/09/2006 07:30:52 »
Andy, when my friend was murdered it was one of the most horriffic scenes that I can imagine he chased her through the apartment shooting her...she kept getting up and trying to get away and he'd shoot her again, her blood was found in every room of the house.. it was smeard on the walls the furniture was spattered with it...then he drug by her hair beat her with the gun.. he threw her to the floor in front of her sofa and left her the last shot he sent to her head..and left! She tried to get to the door.. when the police came days later they found her dead .. I hated this man I dipised him I wanted to kill him, All I could see was my anger so much so that it became about my feelings not about her, I had burried her in my head to forget her beautiful spirit so I could be more like him and not feel love and compassion because it hurt to much.That way I could justify killing him or making him pay..making him pay for her death.. I wanted them to execute him... He got away and they never found him.. I became very bitter very cold and lost my ability to feel compassion.....One day I was riding in the car and an old song came on... "If I could spend time in a bottle" Jim Croche. I started to sing with it.. and then I was crying as I was remembering Kelly and how we were in Madrical choir belting that old song out and the joy and the beauty on her face as she sang it with me.. my friend was back with me for the first time in several years and suddenly I felt this blackness rise off me and I remembered her .. her smile her voice her tears her loves and her fears. I remember the things she valued and how ashamed I was that I had waisted everything she had brought into my life.. All the laughter and joy..and love for life.. I was overcome with emotion and peace for the first time since her death.. I realized that I had stunted her life myself by hating and being vengeful and bitter and that by doing so the legacy she left would never be enjoyed and truely then her life would have been in vain...SO I vowed  to spend as much time with her
as I could by doing the things she taught me ,,Being compassionate Loving kind happy and joyful .. She was was beautiful and I'll never let my anger resentment and hate eat away at me and those I have loved and still love.. I will stand firm in what I believe because I have been on both sides of this issue and the other side is not worth my life her life or all the others that were taken from me... I now have those lives inside of me in my memories again and I intend to do right by them for the rest of my life! I  have tried to teach my children compassion and love and they may loose their way and their faith, but I have confidence and faith that they will always remember what they need to carry on..and will do just that with compassion and love.. I am most certainly not the minority.. I know many many people who feel the same as I do! I do not want to become hardened and bitter as the people who took the lives of my loved ones... No Thank-You!


Karen
« Last Edit: 26/09/2006 07:35:57 by Karen W. »
 

Offline Andy28

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Re: FAO Exodus
« Reply #59 on: 26/09/2006 14:24:12 »
I think this is a definate case for the death penalty. If someone kills someone with 1 shot while trying to get away during a robbery then they don't deserve the death penalty but what this bloke did was pre-meditated.  He lost his right to live when he killed her. He had a choice though, she did'nt.
 

Offline Karen W.

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Re: FAO Exodus
« Reply #60 on: 26/09/2006 16:04:00 »
It would make her life senseless, Death penalty would have taken away any of  her spirit that still lives in all of us that loved her..because that kind of thing requires a certain amount of hardening of the heart in order to accept taking a life...I do not want to accept the fact that as a person I could be so cold and hardened!! I won't do it as it would make me no better then the murder himself!!

Karen
 

Offline moonfire

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Re: FAO Exodus
« Reply #61 on: 26/09/2006 16:08:48 »
good point

"Just Me, Lo" Loretta
 

Offline Andy28

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Re: FAO Exodus
« Reply #62 on: 26/09/2006 16:48:53 »
But if people thought like you where would it end Karen?  Next people would be saying that is wrong to incarcerate killers for life as it is 'cruel and unusual punishment'. You have to have appropriate penalties (which often are'nt in the least bit pleasant) otherwise there would be anarchy.
 

Offline Andy28

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Re: FAO Exodus
« Reply #63 on: 26/09/2006 17:00:32 »
quote:
Originally posted by Karen W.

Andy, when my friend was murdered it was one of the most horriffic scenes that I can imagine he chased her through the apartment shooting her...she kept getting up and trying to get away and he'd shoot her again, her blood was found in every room of the house.. it was smeard on the walls the furniture was spattered with it...then he drug by her hair beat her with the gun.. he threw her to the floor in front of her sofa and left her the last shot he sent to her head..and left! She tried to get to the door.. when the police came days later they found her dead .. I hated this man I dipised him I wanted to kill him, All I could see was my anger so much so that it became about my feelings not about her, I had burried her in my head to forget her beautiful spirit so I could be more like him and not feel love and compassion because it hurt to much.That way I could justify killing him or making him pay..making him pay for her death.. I wanted them to execute him... He got away and they never found him.. I became very bitter very cold and lost my ability to feel compassion.....One day I was riding in the car and an old song came on... "If I could spend time in a bottle" Jim Croche. I started to sing with it.. and then I was crying as I was remembering Kelly and how we were in Madrical choir belting that old song out and the joy and the beauty on her face as she sang it with me.. my friend was back with me for the first time in several years and suddenly I felt this blackness rise off me and I remembered her .. her smile her voice her tears her loves and her fears. I remember the things she valued and how ashamed I was that I had waisted everything she had brought into my life.. All the laughter and joy..and love for life.. I was overcome with emotion and peace for the first time since her death.. I realized that I had stunted her life myself by hating and being vengeful and bitter and that by doing so the legacy she left would never be enjoyed and truely then her life would have been in vain...SO I vowed  to spend as much time with her
as I could by doing the things she taught me ,,Being compassionate Loving kind happy and joyful .. She was was beautiful and I'll never let my anger resentment and hate eat away at me and those I have loved and still love.. I will stand firm in what I believe because I have been on both sides of this issue and the other side is not worth my life her life or all the others that were taken from me... I now have those lives inside of me in my memories again and I intend to do right by them for the rest of my life! I  have tried to teach my children compassion and love and they may loose their way and their faith, but I have confidence and faith that they will always remember what they need to carry on..and will do just that with compassion and love.. I am most certainly not the minority.. I know many many people who feel the same as I do! I do not want to become hardened and bitter as the people who took the lives of my loved ones... No Thank-You!


Karen



I know what you mean Karen. Sometimes it's better to forgive than to spend your life hateing someone. It wears you out mentally. This is a very tragic case as the man was never even caught. Usually murders of this type are carried out by someone who knows the victim and are therefore swiftly solved. I gather this crime happened in the years before the advancement of DNA?
 

another_someone

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Re: FAO Exodus
« Reply #64 on: 26/09/2006 18:21:54 »
quote:
Originally posted by Andy28

But if people thought like you where would it end Karen?  Next people would be saying that is wrong to incarcerate killers for life as it is 'cruel and unusual punishment'. You have to have appropriate penalties (which often are'nt in the least bit pleasant) otherwise there would be anarchy.



How do you judge a punishment to be appropriate?  What measure do you use?  And if, by that measure, the most appropriate punishment ends up doing more damage to society than good - what then?



George
 

Offline Karen W.

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Re: FAO Exodus
« Reply #65 on: 26/09/2006 18:58:12 »
Andy! It happened in 1982 and he was her husband and he just miraculousely disappeared, vanished gone!! He had alot of money was capable of such a thing with no problems..

George I agree, we don't know exactly what is the right or wrong way and in the end for me death penalty is the wrong way, it leaves the living with too much emotional baggage and takes the memories and alters the way you remember your loved ones..
I do think prisons are very leinient as far as what they are allowed, but at the same time education and help for those who are so badly disturbed I think is invaluable.. They are locked up so they cannot harm others! Trying to keep society safe is important but we need to make sure that programs are in place before people like this develop into the violent murderers that they become... Surely if there had been early childhood education and counciling for them when they were shapable and moldable they may and I say may have been helped. I know all cannot be helped with interventions and resources.. But I believe it would help... Socieety has to do the best it can.. We learn through our actions and the effect of those actions, so we will always be evolving and trying new and better, hopefully ways to handle these offenders! We can take the good from the past tries and redesign a plan that works better, perhaps eventually we will find something that is more acceptable  to society as a whole!

Karen
 

Offline moonfire

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Re: FAO Exodus
« Reply #66 on: 27/09/2006 07:08:14 »
Excellent point George!!!

"Just Me, Lo" Loretta
 

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Re: FAO Exodus
« Reply #66 on: 27/09/2006 07:08:14 »

 

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