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Author Topic: Is it possible to build a full size car that gets 200 miles per gallon?  (Read 26114 times)

Offline Drifty

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Check out this info.

"Running Your Car on Gas Vapor - Stop Getting Screwed at The Pump"


http://fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/energy-news/?p=1310 [nofollow]

the truth about gas and vapor part 1


the truth about gas and vapor part 2


https://www.google.es/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=cars+running+on+vaporized+gas [nofollow]+

https://www.google.es/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=cars+running+on+vaporized+gas+youtube [nofollow]

http://www.electrifyingtimes.com/gasolinevapor.html [nofollow]
(excerpt)
-------------------------------------------
RUNNING ON VAPOR
By Bruce Meland,
Editor and Publisher of Electrifying Times

It is an often a misconception that most vehicles burn gasoline vapors in their internal combustion engines. The fact of the matter is, gasoline powered vehicles burn finely divided particles or droplets that are sprayed from the carburetor or fuel injectors, into the engine cylinders.

This is a very wasteful process of converting gasoline or diesel to energy. Maybe 20-30 % efficiency at most. It has been known and demonstrated for 60 or more years that burning gasoline vapors will give easily 5 times the mpg and near zero emissions. Actually if the vapors are heated to the necessary temperature of 450 degrees F, the gasoline vapors are actually fractionalized by catalytic cracking and converted to smaller light molecular hydrocarbons, methane and methanol. In my travels around the world I have been in contact with some very informed inventors, relatives or associates of inventors who have known of many high mileage low emission vapor carburetors. I am sure many of you have heard of the Pogue, Covey, and Fish high mileage carburetors.
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http://truedemocracyparty.net/2011/09/200-mpg-pogue-carburetor/ [nofollow]
(excerpt)
--------------------------------------
Updated on Monday, May 24, 2010 in Technical Innovations
the 200-mpg carburetor
Pogue Carburetor
Don Garlits, a drag racing legend, poses Aug. 2, 2002, with a 125-miles-per-gallon Pogue Carburetor at Don Garlits Museum of Drag Racing, Ocala, Florida.”
photo by Bruce Ackerman, Star Banner, 2002
In Dec. 12, 1936 Canadian Automotive Magazine states that the standard carburetor gets about 25 mpg at only 9% efficiency. Therefore the Pogue carburetor is 72% efficient overall at 200 mpg.
“A carburetor that would allow a car to travel 200 miles on a gallon of gas caused oil stocks to crash when it was announced by its Canadian inventor Charles Nelson Pogue in the 1930s. But the carburetor was never produced in enough volume, and mysteriously, Pogue went overnight from impoverished inventor to the manager of a successful factory making oil filters for the motor industry. Ever since, suspicion has lingered that oil companies colluded to bury Pogue’s invention.”
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http://www.blog.hasslberger.com/2007/04/pogue_carburetor_gasoline_vapo.html [nofollow]
(excerpt)
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There is a website and a CD that have 604 carburetor patents that have been assigned to various companies and never developed. There were 53 inventors who wouldn't sell out. Each of them had fatal "accidents" two to three weeks after refusing to sell their patent(s). I knew four of these inventors personally. The website is http://www.fuelvapors.com/ [nofollow] .
--------------------------------------

https://www.google.es/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Pogue%2C+Covey%2C+and+Fish+high+mileage+carburetors [nofollow]

http://fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/energy-news/?page_id=941 [nofollow]
(excerpt)
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In 1982; in Denver, Col.; I designed and built an ugly but functional vapor carb. for my 1967 Dodge Coronet. It used exhaust heat to assist in the vaporizing of the gasoline- which was sprayed into the heat exchanger at the bottom of the device- and the vapor rose through a maze of approx. 25 feet folded back and forth on itself at which it exited into a 2 1/2″ ID hose (radiator hose) which I ran to an adapter on top of my existing carb which I used to start the 318 cubic inch engine. I achieved 87 miles per gallon. The machine shop that I had help me make the contraption told me that they had helped an earlier inventor with a very NICE carb. to adapt it to his auto – with approximately similar results. (Mine only ran me about $500 total w/ all the junk you have to assemble to get it to work.) They warned me not to make it too public, because the other inventor got the notice of some oil people from Texas who came up and gave him an offer to assume his invention. He refused. His home and workshop burned down 2 days later! He moved to parts unknown.
I just thought you might find it interesting to hear from someone who has done this before. My point in the whole thing was; “If I could achieve 80+ mpg with a total of $500 invested- on a ’67 Dodge Coronet 318 V8; what could Chrysler do with the millions they have to invest?”

“In 1933 Charles Nelson Pogue made headlines when he drove a 1932 Ford V8, 200 miles on a gallon of gas during a demonstration conducted by The Ford Motor Company in Winnipeg, Manitoba using his super-carb system.” The Pogue Carb went into production and was sold openly. [317 were sold?] In the opening months of 1936, stock exchange offices and brokers were swamped with orders to dump all oil stock immediately. His invention caused such shock waves through the stock market, that the US and Canadian governments both stepped in and [successfully] applied pressure to stifle him.
“he saw Mr. Pogue in the midst of a bunch of oil company big wigs. He named the wigs, but I forget the names. They were heads of Texaco, Shell, Esso, etc. Some of them had red faces, and Mr. Pogue looked like a trapped rabbit.”
Pogue went overnight from impoverished inventor to the manager of a successful factory making oil filters for the motor industry.
[ see photo of Don Garlits with Pogue carb. on "Super Carburetors Hist." page ]
see Charles Pogue Carb.

Ron Brandt is the inventor of the perm-mag motor.
When he was a young man, he invented a 90-mpg carburetor. He was paid a visit by a man from Standard Oil, another man, and two men wearing US Marshal uniforms. They told him that if he ever made another carburetor, they would kill him, his wife, and two young children. He was quickly persuaded that his life wasn’t worth a “damn” carburetor. He happened to think to memorize the badge numbers of the two US Marshals and so had an attorney in Washington, DC check with the US Marshal’s office. They had no record of the two badge numbers.

Tom Ogle, a 24 year old mechanic drove 200 miles in a 1970 351 ci. Ford on 2 gallons of gas. Other mechanics and engineers checked for hidden tanks, none were found. Reporters and a camera crew went with him 100 miles out and back; 200 miles 2 gallons. He claimed from the beginning that he did not know exactly how the system worked, just that it did and he proved it time and again. He had hoped other engineers would help to explain what he was doing. I have seen three different news articles on him and reprinted here for your understanding. One states he turned down $ 25 million from backers that would keep it off the market. He had a hard time getting backers that had integrity. Everybody wanted controlling interest and he knew it was going on the back shelf. Tom resisted and tried to get it on the market. Later he was shot and survived, only four months later he did die of an overdose of darvon and alcohol with no suicide note. Nobody explained what became of his idea. A patent was issued Dec. 11, 1979 # 4,177,779. Four months after his death.
see Tom Ogle Carb.
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If this turns out to be true, the word should be spread far and wide.
« Last Edit: 29/10/2016 13:30:38 by chris »


 

Offline evan_au

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Re: It's possible to build a full size car that gets 200 mpg
« Reply #1 on: 02/01/2015 22:40:50 »
You can get pretty good mileage out of any reasonably-streamlined car, provided you drive continually at the optimum speed (usually painfully slow), you never have to accelerate up a hill, you don't use airconditioning, and you never use the brakes (brakes turn kinetic energy into heat).

Becoming a moving traffic jam on the interstate might double your range, but I fail to see how a a normal car could reach 200 miles per gallon* just by changing the carburetor. Achieving this on a race car, with continual speed changes and rapid acceleration is even more unlikely.

Quote
burning gasoline vapors will give easily 5 times the mpg and near zero emissions
Surprisingly, liquid gasoline does not burn. It is the vapors which burn; because gasoline contains many volatile hydrocarbons, there is always some vapor, even on snowy days. This will catch alight, and heat up the liquid gasoline until it vaporises.
Your car engine is designed to completely vaporise the liquid gasoline or diesel before it ignites - only this process is not so efficient at certain throttle settings.

Quote
Pogue carburetor is 72% efficient overall at 200 mpg
Back in the days of steam engines, Carnot worked out the maximum efficiency of a frictionless heat engine (which includes steam, gasoline & diesel). To get 72% efficiency, the engine would need to burn the fuel around 1000C above the air inlet temperature. If you preheat the fuel to 450F (230C), you need to burn it at above 1230C, which is pretty hot. And this already assumes a perfectly efficient carburetor.   

Quote
if the vapors are heated to the necessary temperature of 450 degrees F, the gasoline vapors are actually .. converted to smaller light molecular hydrocarbons, methane and methanol.
Part of the burning process is to break down the hydrocarbon chains in the vapor into smaller units which then combine with oxygen as part of the burning process.

If you suddenly cooled this reaction (eg with liquid nitrogen), you may find partially-burned hydrocarbons which may include small quantities of ethanol and carbon soot; and even smaller quantities of single carbon molecules like methanol and methane - but there are simply not enough hydrogen atoms in octane to produce much methanol or methane.

Quote
It's possible to build a full size car that gets 200 mpg
Frankly, I don't see how a non-electric vehicle could achieve anywhere near 200mpg in stop/start city driving.

*Bear in mind that US gallons are smaller than UK gallons. Isn't Imperialism wonderful?
 

Offline wolfekeeper

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Re: It's possible to build a full size car that gets 200 mpg
« Reply #2 on: 03/01/2015 02:12:38 »
It's not even theoretically possible that a carburettor, without changing your driving, would give you that range. Engines are about 20% efficient, and they would need to be about 100% efficient to get that range; but Carnot says no.

Still, internal combustion engined cars can achieve thousands of miles of range, but only at very average low speeds (like 15 mph) with special tyres, note that the engine isn't actually running most of the time, they start it, accelerate and then shut it down and coast.
 
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Offline syhprum

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Re: It's possible to build a full size car that gets 200 mpg
« Reply #3 on: 03/01/2015 07:29:23 »
It is a misnomer that the internal combustion engine is only 25% efficient large Diesel engines such as used in ferries and British aircraft carriers can achieve55%. 
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: It's possible to build a full size car that gets 200 mpg
« Reply #4 on: 03/01/2015 11:26:43 »
Assume we are using a conventional liquid fuel with an energy density of about 50 MJ/kg, roughly 200 MJ/gallon.

Smooth running at 50 kph, a small 4-seat car requires about 8 kW to overcome drag and friction, so to cover 200 miles (320 km) you need to deliver 8 kW for 320/50 = 6.4 hours =  23040 seconds, a total consumption of  184 MJ.

So the answer is yes, it is theoretically possible if we can reduce the drag coefficient below 0.1 - the goal for a glider, and probably achievable for a 4-seat car - and thus get the running power down to about 4 kW at a sensible speed.

Right now I'm in the process of buying a single-seat aeroplane that cruises at 65 mpg and 185 kph, and aero engines are "intentionally inefficient" (overengineered - reliability is more important than economy) so I don't see any technical barrier to the 200 mpg car, but the answer lies in weight and aerodynamics, not the carburettor (the plane uses an injected Wankel, running on road gasoline).

 

Offline syhprum

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Re: It's possible to build a full size car that gets 200 mpg
« Reply #5 on: 03/01/2015 20:15:16 »
Smooth running for 320Km at 50 KPH would be a pipe dream in the UK if you could find an early morning weekend near empty highway you could not legally drive that slow.
I recall a figure of 17 BHP being quoted for a Volkswagen beetle at 100Kph so 50 KPH should only need about 2 BHP for 50KPH and a figure of 70MPG being quoted for this speed and the 34BHP engine would be running very un efficiently at this output
 

Offline wolfekeeper

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Re: It's possible to build a full size car that gets 200 mpg
« Reply #6 on: 04/01/2015 01:51:33 »
It is a misnomer that the internal combustion engine is only 25% efficient large Diesel engines such as used in ferries and British aircraft carriers can achieve55%. 
Not for a petrol engine, ~20% is not so atypical.

Petrol engines can't give you high compression ratios; you get preignition.

Diesel engines use much higher temperatures and pressures in the combustion process and can reach ~45-55% or so efficiency, that's why you get much better mpg with them.
« Last Edit: 04/01/2015 02:00:38 by wolfekeeper »
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: It's possible to build a full size car that gets 200 mpg
« Reply #7 on: 04/01/2015 18:16:04 »
Smooth running for 320Km at 50 KPH would be a pipe dream in the UK if you could find an early morning weekend near empty highway you could not legally drive that slow.

On the contrary, you could be liable to prosecution for speeding! The speed limit in most built-up areas is 48.2 kph (30 mph).

Quote
I recall a figure of 17 BHP being quoted for a Volkswagen beetle at 100Kph so 50 KPH should only need about 2 BHP for 50KPH and a figure of 70MPG being quoted for this speed and the 34BHP engine would be running very un efficiently at this output

OK, so perhaps we can get away with 1.5 kW at a reasonable speed, so 200 mpg is entirely feasible. I think the trick is to use a diesel hybrid, with say a 3 kW diesel generator charging a small battery that is used for acceleration only.   
 

Offline wolfekeeper

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Re: It's possible to build a full size car that gets 200 mpg
« Reply #8 on: 04/01/2015 19:35:34 »
Hybrids don't get mpgs as high as that.

With electric hybrids, you lose energy in the generator, you lose energy in the battery and you lose energy in the motors.

No, the most efficient form of energy storage is simply kinetic energy.

You run your diesel engine, accelerate up to a speed, not too fast, to avoid windage losses, say 30 mph, switch off the engine to avoid engine losses, and coast down to say 10 mph. Then switch the engine back on, and do it again.

If you do it right the biggest losses are in rolling friction, and it is independent of speed.
 

Offline Drifty

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Re: It's possible to build a full size car that gets 200 mpg
« Reply #9 on: 04/01/2015 20:16:42 »
You people say one thing and the info says another.
Quote
  In Dec. 12, 1936 Canadian Automotive Magazine states that the standard carburetor gets about 25 mpg at only 9% efficiency. Therefore the Pogue carburetor is 72% efficient overall at 200 mpg. 


How is a layman supposed to know who to believe?
 

Offline wolfekeeper

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Re: It's possible to build a full size car that gets 200 mpg
« Reply #10 on: 04/01/2015 21:28:23 »
Well, I find snopes to be very reliable:

http://www.snopes.com/autos/business/carburetor.asp
 

Offline chiralSPO

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Re: It's possible to build a full size car that gets 200 mpg
« Reply #11 on: 04/01/2015 21:33:05 »

Quote
  In Dec. 12, 1936 Canadian Automotive Magazine states that the standard carburetor gets about 25 mpg at only 9% efficiency. Therefore the Pogue carburetor is 72% efficient overall at 200 mpg. 

You can't just multiply mpg to recalculate efficiency. Miles per gallon depends on engine efficiency as well as the mass and aerodynamics of the car, the speed(s) at which the mpg is calculated for and any number of other factors.

A little 50cc motor scooter might be able to get more than 300 miles per gallon at a constant speed of 10 mph, but that doesn't mean its carburetor would be more than 100% efficient.
 

Offline CliffordK

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Re: It's possible to build a full size car that gets 200 mpg
« Reply #12 on: 04/01/2015 23:01:36 »
Hybrids don't get mpgs as high as that.

My old 1982 Pickup will give most modern Hybrids a run for the money for fuel efficiency. 

Ok, it is a rather small pickup with a Diesel.  But, one doesn't necessarily need a "hybrid" to get good fuel efficiency. 

People have been doing "hyper-mileage" contests for years.  For example, the Shell Eco-Marathon where a stripped down Fiat 600 got 244 mpg in 1968, and an Opel got 376 mpg in 1973. 

A well-tuned vehicle with all the excess weight removed, and simplified transmission could possibly get astounding fuel efficiency going about 10 MPH on the flat.
 

Offline wolfekeeper

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Re: It's possible to build a full size car that gets 200 mpg
« Reply #13 on: 04/01/2015 23:07:56 »
Sure, I already made that point, but they don't get that 200+ mpg at 56 mph. It's essentially impossible, the air resistance is too much.

If the question is: can I simply change my carburettor and get 200mpg, then the answer is a resounding no.

Note that diesels don't even HAVE a carburettor.
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: It's possible to build a full size car that gets 200 mpg
« Reply #14 on: 04/01/2015 23:14:05 »
Definition of a carburettor: a device designed to provide the wrong fuel/air mixture at any speed. Which is why all sensible cars use fuel injection.
 

Offline CliffordK

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Re: It's possible to build a full size car that gets 200 mpg
« Reply #15 on: 05/01/2015 18:59:39 »
Definition of a carburettor: a device designed to provide the wrong fuel/air mixture at any speed. Which is why all sensible cars use fuel injection.
[xx(]

I did see an intake manifold design once coupled to an O2 sensor that would inject air under the carburetor to adjust for the proper fuel/air mixture.  It seemed like a pretty ingenious system, designed to retro-fit onto an old classic vehicle to clean up the emissions, but probably also aid with efficiency.

However, I don't think it caused a jump in fuel efficiency from 40 mpg to 80 mpg.  Any efficiency changes would have been minimal.
 

Offline Drifty

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Re: It's possible to build a full size car that gets 200 mpg
« Reply #16 on: 05/01/2015 21:18:32 »
Quote
  Well, I find snopes to be very reliable:

http://www.snopes.com/autos/business/carburetor.asp [nofollow] 
How do you know that the people who wrote that weren't paid sophists? 

Whenever there's a big controversy, there are groups of experts on both sides of it.  Look at the global warming controversy.  There are two groups of scientists with opposing views.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=an+inconvenient+truth+full+movie [nofollow]
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=the+great+swindle+global+warming [nofollow]

The same is true of the depleted uranium controversy.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/docs/b04151999_bt170-99.htm [nofollow]
https://www.google.es/search?q=depleted%20uranium&tbs=vid:1&gws_rd=ssl [nofollow]

The same is true of the GM food contoversy.
http://www.projectcensored.org/11-dangers-of-genetically-modified-food-confirmed/ [nofollow]

I think it's pretty clear that one group of scientists is being sincere and the other group is consciously lying.

Here's a scientist who says that it's impossible to get something published in a science journal if it goes against the official version.
(00:16 time mark)

Here's another case of official mainstream journals publishing untrue information.
(1:36:40 time mark)

In an environment such as this, just pointing to another site that says the opposite isn't enough to convince a thinking person.  We have to know which party is telling the truth as it seems easy for governments and big corporations to find scientists willing to lie.
« Last Edit: 05/01/2015 21:20:42 by Drifty »
 

Offline wolfekeeper

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Re: It's possible to build a full size car that gets 200 mpg
« Reply #17 on: 05/01/2015 23:50:49 »
Quote
  Well, I find snopes to be very reliable:

http://www.snopes.com/autos/business/carburetor.asp 
How do you know that the people who wrote that weren't paid sophists? 
I don't particularly care if they are, I note that they come up with a well reasoned argument, they have references, which I'm sure I could check, and they consistently convince me.

I make no claims that they are always right, but in this case, and virtually every other case I've looked at, I believe them.

I'm also technically skilled with cars, I've done mechanics, and I do work as a professional engineer (not a mechanic). I'm sure that no carburettor could ever work so as to give 200mpg in normal use.

And I have done things like get a petrol car- which normally gets about 40 mpg; I managed to get it up to 55 mpg on a drive of over 50 miles, and I have had it indicating over 70 mpg over short distances. Getting 200 mpg is basically impossible with a petrol car at normal speeds, but can definitely be done at low speeds (~15 mph).
« Last Edit: 05/01/2015 23:57:25 by wolfekeeper »
 

Offline Drifty

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Re: It's possible to build a full size car that gets 200 mpg
« Reply #18 on: 06/01/2015 11:26:39 »
Quote
I don't particularly care if they are, I note that they come up with a well reasoned argument, they have references, which I'm sure I could check, and they consistently convince me.

I make no claims that they are always right, but in this case, and virtually every other case I've looked at, I believe them.

I'm also technically skilled with cars, I've done mechanics, and I do work as a professional engineer (not a mechanic). I'm sure that no carburettor could ever work so as to give 200mpg in normal use.

And I have done things like get a petrol car- which normally gets about 40 mpg; I managed to get it up to 55 mpg on a drive of over 50 miles, and I have had it indicating over 70 mpg over short distances. Getting 200 mpg is basically impossible with a petrol car at normal speeds, but can definitely be done at low speeds (~15 mph).   

You claim to be an expert but these people seem to be experts too.

http://truedemocracyparty.net/2011/09/200-mpg-pogue-carburetor/ [nofollow]
(excerpts)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
16 years ago Charles Nelson Pogue, invented the 200-mpg carburetor
 September 1953

” A lot of them said they were inventors and wanted to buy stock, wanted information, wanted controlling interests. I later found out most were from oil companies.”
 “Were you ever threatened, Mr. Pogue?”
 “Yes, several times.”
 “Was your workshop broken into and models stolen?”
 “Several times.”
 “Were you ever the victim of political pressure?”
 “What do you think? … I had pressure from both Canadian and American politicians. One of your fellows, a big shot in Washington now, was one of them.”

In the opening months of 1936, stock exchange offices and brokers were swamped with orders to dump all oil stock immediately.
 Pogue and his carburetor have become world-wide legend
 This is the year the last of the Pogue patents run out.
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The Preview 2002 issue of Electrifying Times featured an article about gasoline vapor injection systems for automobiles that allow 100-200 mpg. These high mileage systems have been around for 50 years but the technology has been suppressed and kept secret. Vapor injection patents have been bought out by major auto and oil companies. A revived emergence of this technology is surfacing, due to limited oil supplies resulting in increased gas prices. The computer age has allowed refined vapor injection technology to reach new levels. 150 mpg vapor injection prototype systems are secretly being installed in various vehicles around the US. Here is an excerpt of the article. For the full story, send away for the Preview 2002 back issue of Electrifying Times and receive the most comprehensive story ever printed on the history of vapor injection systems.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.blog.hasslberger.com/2007/04/pogue_carburetor_gasoline_vapo.html [nofollow]
(excerpts)
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Charles Nelson Pogue invented a carburetor that vaporized gasonline, instead of nebulizing it into tiny drops, thus dramatically increasing mileage per gallon of gasoline used. Like so many other inventions, that carburetor did not fit in with the business plans of those in the auto and oil industries. It was bought and shelved, leaving enthusiasts to try and make their own ... if they had the specialized knowledge and tools to do so.
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Double-Mixing Carburetor Increases Power and Mileage
A NEW carburetor that makes mileage of 200 miles per gallon a possibility has been invented by a Winnipeg, Can., engineer. It has been tested and examined by several automotive engineers who claim it is entirely feasible in its action.

C.N. Pogue, the inventor, supplies his carburetor with two mixing chambers instead of one. The gasoline is vaporized in the primary chamber and before being used is sent through another mixing chamber. Here, since it is vapor that burns and not liquid gasoline, the gasoline is further vaporized into a still finer mixture. This insures more power and mileage from usual quantity of liquid gasoline.
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According to this video a carburetor isn't even needed.

This white vapor comes from separating the Atoms in gasoline.


I might as well just say it.  I doubt that you're telling the truth.
 

Offline CliffordK

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Re: It's possible to build a full size car that gets 200 mpg
« Reply #19 on: 06/01/2015 13:32:32 »
This white vapor comes from separating the Atoms in gasoline.
You can put that in your car if you wish.
In the film, there is no evidence of the vehicle driving.  It is barely running, and the engine seems to die every time he lets off of the accelerator.  And, it isn't demonstrating any particular fuel efficiency (how do you get MPG from a parked car?)

One doesn't necessarily have to have a functioning device for a patent, and some patents seem to be issued on wishful thinking.  For example there are several 100% magnet motor patents which describe non-functional devices.

There may be some simple things that one could do to improve fuel efficiency that may not be commercially viable.  For example, if one runs an engine super-lean, one may decrease fuel consumption slightly (while increasing NOx production), and decreasing the life expectancy of the engine, perhaps severely.  There is also a lot of debate about the efficiency of water injection, but some people swear by its benefits in fuel efficiency and engine cleanliness. 

Over the last 30 or 40 years, there have been huge improvements in cleaner burning engines, more reliable engines, and fuel efficiency increases (perhaps offset by more use of stuff like AC, exhaust back pressure, and heavier and safer cars). 

Putting a 1960's engine design into a modern car would be a huge step backwards.
 

Offline wolfekeeper

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Re: It's possible to build a full size car that gets 200 mpg
« Reply #20 on: 06/01/2015 22:45:22 »
Quote
I don't particularly care if they are, I note that they come up with a well reasoned argument, they have references, which I'm sure I could check, and they consistently convince me.

I make no claims that they are always right, but in this case, and virtually every other case I've looked at, I believe them.

I'm also technically skilled with cars, I've done mechanics, and I do work as a professional engineer (not a mechanic). I'm sure that no carburettor could ever work so as to give 200mpg in normal use.

And I have done things like get a petrol car- which normally gets about 40 mpg; I managed to get it up to 55 mpg on a drive of over 50 miles, and I have had it indicating over 70 mpg over short distances. Getting 200 mpg is basically impossible with a petrol car at normal speeds, but can definitely be done at low speeds (~15 mph).   

You claim to be an expert but these people seem to be experts too.
I'm not an expert, but neither are those people. Your an expert if many other people say you are. Most people don't consider them to be experts.

Quote
I might as well just say it.  I doubt that you're telling the truth.
LOL! If I could make a 200mpg carburettor I would just hugging do it already and release the plans online anonymously, and then others would try it and it would work and word would spread. It's just not possible, wind resistance alone stops that.

Conspiracies only work if they're kept small, publishing them across the whole world would stop that.

Nothing I have ever seen suggests that 200mpg carbs can be made, and people regularly engage in distance races; if a 200 mpg carb existed they WOULD be using it.

With all due respect, you seem rather gullible that you think that 200 mpg carbs can be made.

If you really think so, go right ahead.
« Last Edit: 06/01/2015 22:47:52 by wolfekeeper »
 

Offline Drifty

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Re: It's possible to build a full size car that gets 200 mpg
« Reply #21 on: 08/01/2015 09:04:25 »
Quote
  With all due respect, you seem rather gullible that you think that 200 mpg carbs can be made. 

Here's what I said in post #1.
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  If this turns out to be true, the word should be spread far and wide. 

You're misrepresenting my position.  That's what professional sophists on the internet do.
http://cultureofawareness.com/2012/09/26/disinformation-campaign-exposure-confessions-of-a-paid-disinformation-poster/ [nofollow]
http://ombudsmanwatchers.org.uk/articles/twenty_five_ways.html [nofollow]

I'm just a layman so I can't opine but when I read stuff like this...
http://fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/energy-news/?p=1310 [nofollow]

...I'm not going to simply rule it out because some guy on the internet says it's bunk.  I'm still sitting on the fence. 

Let's hear your analysis of the above info.
 

Offline wolfekeeper

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Re: It's possible to build a full size car that gets 200 mpg
« Reply #22 on: 08/01/2015 14:58:36 »
We already gave you the analysis and referred you to other people's analyses that indicate that these claims are extremely likely to be fraudulent; the 200mpg carb idea doesn't work, to get a much more efficient engine you need a higher compression ratio and combustion temperature and lower exhaust temperature; these things cannot be manipulated by a carburettor in a meaningful way to achieve this.

To improve range you can also improve the car in other respects, lower frontal cross-section, improved Cd factor, more efficient tyres.

Finally you can drive at much slower speeds, at around 15 mph you can get thousands of miles range.

With these, many caveats, the essential thrust of the topic: "It's possible to build a full size car that gets 200 mpg" is false.
« Last Edit: 08/01/2015 15:03:29 by wolfekeeper »
 

Offline Drifty

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Re: It's possible to build a full size car that gets 200 mpg
« Reply #23 on: 08/01/2015 20:01:18 »
Quote
  We already gave you the analysis and referred you to other people's analyses that indicate that these claims are extremely likely to be fraudulent; the 200mpg carb idea doesn't work, to get a much more efficient engine you need a higher compression ratio and combustion temperature and lower exhaust temperature; these things cannot be manipulated by a carburettor in a meaningful way to achieve this. 

If I'm not mistaken, in these videos the vehicles have fuel injection systems with the fuel pumps disconnected and there's no carburetor.

200+ MPG Gasoline Vaporizer Project Original Design (Driving On Only Gasoline Vapor)

2004 dodge ram 1500 running on fuel vapors

Running Your Car on Gas Vapor - Stop Getting Screwed at The Pump
t=143

Running a Chevy 350 without the fuel pump. (On vapors)


It seems that it's possible to do this without a carburetor.
« Last Edit: 08/01/2015 20:05:19 by Drifty »
 

Offline wolfekeeper

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Re: It's possible to build a full size car that gets 200 mpg
« Reply #24 on: 09/01/2015 02:34:38 »
There's not necessarily any problem in theory about running a car on petrol vapours. It's just that you can't make a 200mpg car that way- not one that drives and looks like an ordinary car.
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: It's possible to build a full size car that gets 200 mpg
« Reply #24 on: 09/01/2015 02:34:38 »

 

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