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Author Topic: Is it possible to suspend an electron in an EM field?  (Read 11258 times)

Offline jccc

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Re: Is it possible to suspend an electron in an EM field?
« Reply #25 on: 04/02/2015 04:15:25 »
Pete,

I been reading some QM and watching youtube related video. The thing is I can't finish what ever, I just don't believe what I am getting. Another reason, I think I am lazy. Never had students worse then me?

Tell me you can read the whole Bible.
 

Offline PmbPhy

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Re: Is it possible to suspend an electron in an EM field?
« Reply #26 on: 04/02/2015 05:15:40 »
Quote from: jccc
Pete,

I been reading some QM and watching youtube related video.
Don't watch videos. It's a bad way to learn.

Quote from: jccc
The thing is I can't finish what ever, I just don't believe what I am getting.
It's not necessary for you to believe. The only thing you need to know is whether you understand it. I.e. do you know what it says, can you apply it to a given application to explain it to others. Does it correctly predict experimental results? Your problem is that you want to do what nobody else has ever been able to do, i.e. understand it in the same way one can understand mechanics or electrodynamics. It's a given that nobody understands it like that and I've explained why countless times.

Quote from: jccc
Another reason, I think I am lazy. Never had students worse then me?
I'm not a teacher so I've never had students. You're the one who wants to learn, right? So do the work!

Quote from: jccc
Tell me you can read the whole Bible.
Sure. In fact I've read it straight through three times. It was horrible because it's such a long and often very boring thing to read. But it was well worth the effort because what it actually says is not like what people have always led me to believe. There are things in there which can't be true because its the same story told different ways and they contradict each other. Then there are things where a guy wrestled with God and actually [won. Nobody's ever told me that bit of knowledge and nobody was ever going to offer it to me either. See what I mean?
 

Offline UltimateTheory

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Re: Is it possible to suspend an electron in an EM field?
« Reply #27 on: 04/02/2015 06:59:05 »
Don't watch videos. It's a bad way to learn.

Nonsense.
There are good videos and bad videos.
But layman won't see difference the most of time.

Layman seeing a lot of unknown math symbols will understand even less from typical mainstream material.

f.e. IMHO this video is pretty good visualizing photon-atom interactions:

While discussing about atom it's necessary to show ionization of various atoms like Hydrogen, Helium, Oxygen, Nitrogen etc. in spectral tubes, and then show how we're getting spectral lines, analyze of relations between them (Balmer Series, Rydberg equation), and then talk about details.
So the only way is to show it in real experiment or see it recorded on video.
 

Offline PmbPhy

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Re: Is it possible to suspend an electron in an EM field?
« Reply #28 on: 04/02/2015 07:40:38 »
Quote from: UltimateTheory
There are good videos and bad videos.
Nobody said anything about bad videos. I said it was a bad way to learn a subject. It's condensed so there's a lot missing. You don't get the details require. However if you must you must. It just shouldn't be a substitute for learning a subject. Even I watch a special now and then. However I find it to be a complete waste of time.
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Is it possible to suspend an electron in an EM field?
« Reply #29 on: 05/02/2015 06:57:57 »
Everything we see is bound by gravity. In micro world, electrostatic force.

An electron bound by nucleus force field should be similar to a man bound by gravity.

The difference is the force strength, 1 vs 10^40. Image how strong is the force field between nucleus and electron. The vacuum in between should be
 10^40 denser than Earth. Otherwise, atom will self-discharge, means electron falls in and release energy.

It's like if gravity suddenly increased to 10^40 times, we will sinking into Earth toward center almost freely without resistance.

I think, electron, and everything else, is suspended in EM field. Nothing really touches each other, but the force field of the matter interact.

Puzzles me, The Earth/ground stops us sinking to gravity center, what stops electron sinking to nucleus?

 

Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Is it possible to suspend an electron in an EM field?
« Reply #30 on: 15/04/2015 04:25:38 »
Puzzles me, The Earth/ground stops us sinking to gravity center, what stops electron sinking to nucleus?

I guess you are going to be puzzled forever...
 

~CB

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Re: Is it possible to suspend an electron in an EM field?
« Reply #31 on: 15/04/2015 05:28:18 »
Peter, can you refer me books on Quantum Mechanics?
...That you believe are meant for someone who's just starting and are not with a lot of maths symbols. (...Or if so, atleast it describes those symbols unlike some books I have had a peek at.)
 

Offline PmbPhy

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Re: Is it possible to suspend an electron in an EM field?
« Reply #32 on: 15/04/2015 05:32:39 »
Quote from: Jasper Hayden
Peter, can you refer me books on Quantum Mechanics?
...That you believe are meant for someone who's just starting and are not with a lot of maths symbols. (...Or if so, atleast it describes those symbols unlike some books I have had a peek at.)
What exactly is your math background? Non-existent from the sound of it. As such try Quantum Reality: Beyond the New Physics by Nick Herbert.
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Is it possible to suspend an electron in an EM field?
« Reply #33 on: 15/04/2015 05:48:21 »
Everything we see is bound by gravity. In micro world, electrostatic force.

An electron bound by nucleus force field should be similar to a man bound by gravity.

The difference is the force strength, 1 vs 10^40. Image how strong is the force field between nucleus and electron. The vacuum in between should be
 10^40 denser than Earth. Otherwise, atom will self-discharge, means electron falls in and release energy.

It's like if gravity suddenly increased to 10^40 times, we will sinking into Earth toward center almost freely without resistance.

I think, electron, and everything else, is suspended in EM field. Nothing really touches each other, but the force field of the matter interact.

Puzzles me, The Earth/ground stops us sinking to gravity center, what stops electron sinking to nucleus?

i don't want to wait forever. can someone help me to understand the mystery of atom structure? 
 

~CB

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Re: Is it possible to suspend an electron in an EM field?
« Reply #34 on: 15/04/2015 05:49:34 »
What exactly is your math background? Non-existent from the sound of it.
Well, that was kind of rude. But, I guess it's just a natural response I had coming from you since you have had to put up with Jccc and his stubbornness. All the starters aren't that stubborn you know... Anyways, thanks for the reference, will definitely read the book. Oh! By the way, in complete honesty... I really am not good in maths since I dropped out of 10th standard some months ago to create a social networking site I have an idea of. I'm still working on it and hopefully will progress towards completion within an year; Science is just something I'm passionately curious about. Hence, the reason I read some Science books and Am on this forum.
Well, again... Thanks for the reference and have a good day!
 

Offline yor_on

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Re: Is it possible to suspend an electron in an EM field?
« Reply #35 on: 19/04/2015 08:10:07 »
Jccc, wouldn't it be easier to understand if one just accepted a electron as a bunch of rules quantum mechanically? I see that you want it to have classical properties, but that's not how it is treated. Atomic Structure: The Quantum Mechanical Model. Quantum mechanically decoherence is the idea of what leads from the microscopic to the macroscopic. Even macroscopically there are only a few parameters holding this universe together, as causality. Without that observer dependencies should make it magical to us.
=

(don't get fooled by the shapes shown in 'atomic structure' btw. They just represent the probability density of where one most probably expect a electron to be found in a measurement.)
« Last Edit: 19/04/2015 08:19:35 by yor_on »
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Is it possible to suspend an electron in an EM field?
« Reply #36 on: 19/04/2015 09:47:16 »
Jccc, wouldn't it be easier to understand if one just accepted a electron as a bunch of rules quantum mechanically? I see that you want it to have classical properties, but that's not how it is treated. Atomic Structure: The Quantum Mechanical Model. Quantum mechanically decoherence is the idea of what leads from the microscopic to the macroscopic. Even macroscopically there are only a few parameters holding this universe together, as causality. Without that observer dependencies should make it magical to us.
=

(don't get fooled by the shapes shown in 'atomic structure' btw. They just represent the probability density of where one most probably expect a electron to be found in a measurement.)

i am not allowed to discuss science here, only new theories or chat section. be appreciate to meet you there. i don't agree with both models above.
 

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Re: Is it possible to suspend an electron in an EM field?
« Reply #36 on: 19/04/2015 09:47:16 »

 

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