# The Naked Scientists Forum

### Author Topic: Will Technology Discover The Answers To It All ?  (Read 9297 times)

#### another_someone

• Guest
##### Re: Will Technology Discover The Answers To It All ?
« Reply #25 on: 08/10/2006 00:55:53 »
OK, while answering something on the God thread, I looked up the following which I think will also be pertinent here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems
quote:

In mathematical logic, Gödel's incompleteness theorems are two theorems about the limits of formal systems, proved by Kurt Gödel in 1931.

Gödel's first incompleteness theorem is perhaps the most celebrated result in mathematical logic. It states that
For any consistent formal theory that proves basic arithmetical truths, it is possible to construct an arithmetical statement that is true 1 but not provable in the theory. That is, any theory capable of expressing elementary arithmetic cannot be both consistent and complete.

Gödel demonstrated the incompleteness of a theory of arithmetic, but it is clear that the demonstration could be given for any theory and language of a certain expressiveness.

Thus it follows scientific theory cannot be both complete and consistent.  If science seeks to be consistent, then it must always remain in some way incomplete.

George
« Last Edit: 08/10/2006 01:01:23 by another_someone »

#### Mjhavok

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 468
##### Re: Will Technology Discover The Answers To It All ?
« Reply #26 on: 10/10/2006 00:39:54 »
Are you talking about a specific scientific theory or the scientific method?

-Steven

#### another_someone

• Guest
##### Re: Will Technology Discover The Answers To It All ?
« Reply #27 on: 10/10/2006 14:29:50 »
quote:
Originally posted by Mjhavok
Are you talking about a specific scientific theory or the scientific method?

-Steven

I am talking about any supposedly complete model (i.e. the totality of all scientific theory).

In other words, one can use scientific method to create a model (or theory) to answer any particular question, but what you cannot do is use it to create a model to answer every conceivable question.

George
« Last Edit: 10/10/2006 14:31:39 by another_someone »

#### lightarrow

• Neilep Level Member
• Posts: 4586
• Thanked: 7 times
##### Re: Will Technology Discover The Answers To It All ?
« Reply #28 on: 10/10/2006 19:59:20 »
quote:
Originally posted by another_someone

What I was trying to say was that while I agree that we are connected to everything else, and as such me would rightly be regarded as part of a single entity with everything else, the problem I have is when you start talking about this 'greater entity' actually being self-aware, or being a sentient being of some sort (ofcourse, we can start asking what sentience is in the first place – but I am merely wary of what seems to me to be an anthropomorphism).

It was your use of the phrase “a higher level of awareness” that concerned me.  If you had merely said “at a higher level”, and had left out the word “awareness”, then I would not have had a problem.
What is awareness? Good question, isnt'it? I often ask to me this question, because I find it extremely interesting.

If I don't know what awareness is, how can I define an "higher level of awareness"? Clearly we are using only our intuitions here.

The concept of "self" is very misterious too. What is it? Where is it? Does it necessarily have to be located somwhere inside our body? Maybe not. In this case something who is me and you and many others or everybody, doesn't necessarily have to live inside somebody or something. What is self or awareness? To make an analogy (not a good analogy, however) a computer software is not the hardware; the software exist even in the absence of any hardware at all. A computer program can also be made of many others sub-programs.

Awareness as well, could be made of many others sub-awareness, each of which is located in a specific place (our bodies, for example).

When you say that your fingers are not your hand, I agree with you. But...I also don't agree with you.
I believe it depends on the point of view. Do you know the "EPR paradox"? Do you know how Bohr solved it? Saying that the two distant "entangled" measurements are, actually, only one!
Furthermore, the same thing that has a shape here, can have another shape there (think about space-distortion).

I believe,as otis01 said, that we have created every separation between this and that.
"A newborn doesn't perceive any separation...till the moment he is detached from his mother's right breast... and can find comfort in the left breast..."

I think otis01 knows that.
« Last Edit: 10/10/2006 20:01:57 by lightarrow »

#### The Naked Scientists Forum

##### Re: Will Technology Discover The Answers To It All ?
« Reply #28 on: 10/10/2006 19:59:20 »