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Author Topic: How do you think fugitives like Matteo Denaro escape or shield from satellite?  (Read 12038 times)

Offline mriver8

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tracking methods both emf, and acoustic?


 

Offline alancalverd

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Travel by bus, plane or underground railway.
 

Offline mriver8

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Travel by bus, plane or underground railway.

No not how they travel once they escaped, how do they shield themselves long enough to escape?
 

Offline evan_au

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Wear a hat? (Preferably with a wide brim...)

From space, 2 people look pretty much the same as each other.

Suppose you had a spy satellites in Low Earth Orbit, with a close-up camera good enough to photograph an individual person in more than 1 pixel. It will almost inevitably be over a very different part of the world, and focused on a totally different patch of ground when you wanted it.

A fugitive could also choose to travel at night, or wait until it is overcast...
 

Offline syhprum

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I don't know how old this ex? mafia man is but I don't think they send you to jail in Italy if you are older than 70 and the wheels of justice grind very slow in Italy.
Any competent mafia godfather could make an offer he couldn't refuse to the registrar clerk and get his birth date altered.
 

Offline alancalverd

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Shaving off a beard usually works, as does a wig (or a shaved head). You can only be "tracked" once you have been caught and tagged, which presumably Denaro hasn't.
 

Offline domkarr

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Plus there is the pure immensity of earth to think about. Even a couple of square kilometres is a large search area so imagine scouring an entire town bustling with people or vast expanses of countryside.
satelite imagery is also not an instantaneous source of intel as the information usually has to bounce several times to reach the place at which it is accessed.
As was previously mentioned in the blog Italy is a highly corrupt country where even the president is know to have deep ties to Mafiosi's. There are whole sections of the country where the police have left and don't plan on returning.   
 

Offline Colin2B

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Plus there is the pure immensity of earth to think about. Even a couple of square kilometres is a large search area so imagine scouring an entire town bustling with people or vast expanses of countryside.
satelite imagery is also not an instantaneous source of intel as the information usually has to bounce several times to reach the place at which it is accessed.
As was previously mentioned in the blog Italy is a highly corrupt country where even the president is know to have deep ties to Mafiosi's. There are whole sections of the country where the police have left and don't plan on returning.
I agree  this is most likely explanation.
See http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/italian-police-seize-mafia-bosss-assets-worth-millions-of-euros-is-this-the-end-of-the-line-for-matteo-messina-denaro-9926827.html
This section:
"Wire taps obtained by prosecutors suggest the profits from this olive oil producer have been used to directly fund Messina Denaro while he hides out from the authorities probably using some of the money to buy the complicity of malleable public officials."

tracking methods both emf, and acoustic?

Acoustic won't work from space (in space nobody can hear you scream)
What do you mean by emf? Do you mean Electromagnetic spectrum?
As domkarr pointed out visible spectrum won't help much. Infra red might show additional heat activity in an area. Far infra red has been used to detect underground structures eg buried Egyptian archeological sites. Lidar might show irregularities due to construction of a hideout, but that would be better deployed from a small survey aircraft. All rely on having a rough idea of where he might be.
Probably better and cheaper to offer big rewards, very big! But you still need a police force to implement it.
 

Offline syhprum

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It would be a very foolish thing to accept a reward for betraying a mafia godfather I don't think you would live very long to enjoy it
 

Offline alancalverd

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His best bet would be to enter politics, tell lies, ruin the economy, start a war or two, and become an ambassador for peace. That would make him untouchable, apparently - and very rich.
 

Offline Colin2B

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His best bet would be to enter politics, tell lies, ruin the economy, start a war or two, and become an ambassador for peace. That would make him untouchable, apparently - and very rich.
I sometimes wonder whether quite a few have already.
 

Offline alancalverd

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It would be invidious to compare amateurs like Bush, Thatcher or Blair with Premier Division professionals like Arafat, Amin, Bin Laden, or any of the perverts who sanctioned the Spanish Inquisition in the Name of Jesus. But you have to give them credit for trying.
 

Offline Colin2B

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It would be invidious to compare amateurs like Bush, Thatcher or Blair with Premier Division professionals like Arafat, Amin, Bin Laden, or any of the perverts who sanctioned the Spanish Inquisition in the Name of Jesus. But you have to give them credit for trying.
Don't get me started on the Spanish Inquisition. Using religion for political ends. They destroyed a golden age of learning when Christians, Jews and Muslims worked together and even offered each other the use of their churches and mosques.
As you say, our politicians are amateurs by comparison - thank goodness!
 

Offline mriver8

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To clarify I mean once their locale is known how can they shield themselves long enough to escape? Say they are in a building and the government knows.
 

Offline alancalverd

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By using the back door. Or a false moustache. Or tricking a policeman to enter the building, overpowering him, putting on his uniform, and speaking dreadful German as you walk out.

Come on, you've seen the films!
 

Offline Colin2B

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To clarify I mean once their locale is known how can they shield themselves long enough to escape? Say they are in a building and the government knows.
It depends on the detection method, each would have it's own antidote. For example, I've worked with organisations that put all their computers in Faraday cages to prevent anyone picking up signals from the displays.
You mentioned satellites, but there are lots of detection methods that don't rely on satellites.
Some are very simple. In Warsaw WW2, the Gestapo used stethoscopes to listen for people hiding under floorboards. So it doesn't need to be high tech.
« Last Edit: 24/02/2015 00:26:25 by Colin2B »
 

Offline Colin2B

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I've just had a horrible thought. What if mriver8 is really Denaro and he is getting us to post ideas on how he can avoid detection?
Does that mean we could be arrested for aiding and abetting a criminal?
Hey I'm out of here.
 

Offline mriver8

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I've just had a horrible thought. What if mriver8 is really Denaro and he is getting us to post ideas on how he can avoid detection?
Does that mean we could be arrested for aiding and abetting a criminal?
Hey I'm out of here.

No I am not a fugitive.
 

Offline mriver8

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Acoustic won't work from space (in space nobody can hear you scream)
What do you mean by emf? Do you mean Electromagnetic spectrum?
As domkarr pointed out visible spectrum won't help much. Infra red might show additional heat activity in an area. Far infra red has been used to detect underground structures eg buried Egyptian archeological sites. Lidar might show irregularities due to construction of a hideout, but that would be better deployed from a small survey aircraft. All rely on having a rough idea of where he might be.
Probably better and cheaper to offer big rewards, very big! But you still need a police force to implement it.
[/quote]

What type of suit would make someone invisible to infrared, and what kind for Lidar? It would have to absorb light and shield heat. They have acostuc detection methods controlled by satellite also I think, or maybe on planes, def acoustics though.
 

Offline ScientificSorcerer

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Faraday Cage suit... (a suit of medieval armor/chain-mail) Or you could use conductive textiles.  this would prevent any signals from coming off of you (from electronic devices or other electrical signals)

Infrared detectors like heat vision type sensors would likely be blocked by thick insulation or by using a super insulation textile like the very lite aerogel fabric.

to block regular light you would need an invisibility cloak probably made of a sophisticated paper thin electo-chromic screen which can emit different levels of light at different points on the screen to counteract shadows and a panoramic camera to sync viewer perspective to the background.
compensate for folds in the cloak and things like that.

Lastly for sound cancellation you would need a piezoelectric fabric which could be used to destructively interfere with what ever sounds you might make

I dont know why Im answering this, I'm just board.
« Last Edit: 09/03/2015 14:00:20 by ScientificSorcerer »
 

Offline mriver8

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Faraday Cage suit... (a suit of medieval armor/chain-mail) Or you could use conductive textiles.  this would prevent any signals from coming off of you (from electronic devices or other electrical signals)

Infrared detectors like heat vision type sensors would likely be blocked by thick insulation or by using a super insulation textile like the very lite aerogel fabric.

to block regular light you would need an invisibility cloak probably made of a sophisticated paper thin electo-chromic screen which can emit different levels of light at different points on the screen to counteract shadows and a panoramic camera to sync viewer perspective to the background.
compensate for folds in the cloak and things like that.

Lastly for sound cancellation you would need a piezoelectric fabric which could be used to destructively interfere with what ever sounds you might make

I dont know why Im answering this, I'm just board.

No it's a good answer. It's sort of like Myth Busters. Question do you think a multi-layered velostat hat can keep EMF waves from reaching the human brain? I suspect no because it still doesn't cover the entire head and is not grounded like a chain mail suit would be correct?
 

Offline alancalverd

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Faraday suits can be purchased from good safety equipment suppliers. But beware of "anti infrared" clothing: it was tried by the US Marines and quickly abandoned because the wearers overheated.

Travel by bus and underground train if you don't want to be spotted by radar or IR, and wear a hat and beard if you don't want to be recognised by humans. Best of all, wear a burkha and complain about a violation of human rights if anyone asks you for facial indentification.

Don't worry about EMF waves reaching the brain. They have no effect except for cooking.
« Last Edit: 05/04/2015 10:32:43 by alancalverd »
 

Offline yor_on

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Hmm?

"There are whole sections of the country where the police have left and don't plan on returning." Didn't know that? Got any links proving the concept domkarr? When it comes to corruption I think one has to remember that it also comes with the acceptance and expectancy of the citizens living there. what I may consider corruption someone else may consider as just being the way business is done for example. You can see that now and then when multinational interests, international companies, etc try to do business as defined by the country they are guests in, creating a scandal at home. But yes, Italy has problems.
 

Offline syhprum

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I understand the gentleman in question is no longer under the threat of deportation due to a home office blunder
 

Offline mriver8

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Faraday suits can be purchased from good safety equipment suppliers. But beware of "anti infrared" clothing: it was tried by the US Marines and quickly abandoned because the wearers overheated.

Travel by bus and underground train if you don't want to be spotted by radar or IR, and wear a hat and beard if you don't want to be recognised by humans. Best of all, wear a burkha and complain about a violation of human rights if anyone asks you for facial indentification.

Don't worry about EMF waves reaching the brain. They have no effect except for cooking.

But what type of headwear could keep EMF Waves out hypothetically?
 

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