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Author Topic: Would the photon lose all its energy at infinity?  (Read 69076 times)

Offline Bill S

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Re: Would the photon lose all its energy at infinity?
« Reply #225 on: 27/06/2015 21:49:16 »
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all the info out there, one has to make up his own mind about anything.

That is a “politician’s response”.  It doesn’t even come close to answering the question.

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based on observation fact and proven laws

Observation is only the interpretation of the observer.

You frequently make a statement and label it “Fact”, but is there such a thing as a “fact” in science?  Even if there were, it would need to be interpreted.

“Proven laws” are working hypotheses that have passed all the tests we have been able to subject them to – so far.
 
I like the idea of challenging accepted wisdom, but if you are going to be taken seriously you have to do a number of things.  These include:

1. Convince others that you have made accurate observations, or interpreted the observations of others correctly.

2. Ensure that what you claim to be facts have a sound basis, and that you have interpreted them appropriately.

3. Be sure your use and interpretation of the “laws of physics” make sense and can be understood by others.

Even just these three requirements are not easy for those of us who are non-scientists.  This is one reason why I tend to ask questions, rather than make statements.

Of course, it is frustrating if you feel your questions are not being answered, but it must be equally frustrating for those who attempt to answer questions if their answers are ignored.

 

Offline jccc

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Re: Would the photon lose all its energy at infinity?
« Reply #226 on: 27/06/2015 22:49:25 »
a. sunlight is electrons in hot atoms change orbital/energy level emitted photon particles that travel at c.

b. sunlight is vibrating hot atoms produced gravitational waves that propagate at c.

which 1 is your Pick? why?

your answer is? or still thinking? no wiki?
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Would the photon lose all its energy at infinity?
« Reply #227 on: 03/07/2015 21:06:54 »

100 laser balloon popping

if laser beam is particle beam, the energy of the beam should be the same at different distance.

if laser beam is gravitational wave between the source atoms and the target atoms, the energy of the beam should decay by distance.

look how fast the 1st balloon pops and how slow the last 1 is?

Now are you convinced?
 

Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Would the photon lose all its energy at infinity?
« Reply #228 on: 03/07/2015 21:29:18 »
The laser spreads out slightly as it goes (like a flashlight, but to a much smaller extent) so the laser "beam" is actually a laser "cone." The rate that the balloons pop has to do with the intensity of the laser light (unit power per unit area, for instance mW/cm2)

This is why the furthest balloon takes longer to burst than the closest.

Why would you think that distance would effect gravity but not EM? Anything that spreads out into space will have decreased intensity with distance.
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Would the photon lose all its energy at infinity?
« Reply #229 on: 03/07/2015 21:46:04 »
gravity between the exiting atoms in the laser and the target atom is f=G x m1m2/r^2.

the m1 and m2 are the same, the r changed so the force changed, the energy a gravitational wave carries is proportional to f x frequency.

the laser beam didn't expend, even it does, very small, the light beam energy should about the same at 1st and last balloon.

More investigation is needed.
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Would the photon lose all its energy at infinity?
« Reply #230 on: 03/07/2015 21:58:21 »

feature=iv&src_vid=HuceDT2R4f4&annotation_id=annotation_453255

see the 2nd video, the flame is not bending by the laser beam.
« Last Edit: 03/07/2015 22:20:39 by jccc »
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Would the photon lose all its energy at infinity?
« Reply #231 on: 04/07/2015 06:55:27 »
The laser spreads out slightly as it goes (like a flashlight, but to a much smaller extent) so the laser "beam" is actually a laser "cone." The rate that the balloons pop has to do with the intensity of the laser light (unit power per unit area, for instance mW/cm2)

This is why the furthest balloon takes longer to burst than the closest.

Why would you think that distance would effect gravity but not EM? Anything that spreads out into space will have decreased intensity with distance.

if you measure the laser spot area, it is about the same. so the mw/cm^2 is about the same, the 1st and last balloon should take about same time to pop.

wave spread out in space, not particle beam. a bullet has about same momentum at 1 m and 20 m away. a laser beam is not, see the videos.
 

Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Would the photon lose all its energy at infinity?
« Reply #232 on: 04/07/2015 14:48:07 »
The laser spreads out slightly as it goes (like a flashlight, but to a much smaller extent) so the laser "beam" is actually a laser "cone." The rate that the balloons pop has to do with the intensity of the laser light (unit power per unit area, for instance mW/cm2)

This is why the furthest balloon takes longer to burst than the closest.

Why would you think that distance would effect gravity but not EM? Anything that spreads out into space will have decreased intensity with distance.

if you measure the laser spot area, it is about the same. so the mw/cm^2 is about the same, the 1st and last balloon should take about same time to pop.

wave spread out in space, not particle beam. a bullet has about same momentum at 1 m and 20 m away. a laser beam is not, see the videos.

no, look closely at the video. You can see the size of the laser spot on the wall (1:29), and it looks to me like the brightest spot is about an inch in diameter, with a halo that is about two feet in diameter. A little bit later (1:50) they show the beam coming out of the laser, and it appears to be about 1/8 inch in diameter (maybe 1/4, but not 1 inch or two feet). Also it is obviously conical--you can see it spread out a lot. So all of the energy in small area near the laser is spread out over a significantly larger area far from the laser.
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Would the photon lose all its energy at infinity?
« Reply #233 on: 04/07/2015 17:18:02 »

this video is only 1.42. see the spot on the wall after the last balloon popped. same size.

it is not believe me or not. it is the fact about the nature of light, all scientists should seek truth.

the double laser experiment is not tested yet, but the videos linked, support my theory. the laser beam's energy decay with distance is fact.

you can say air atoms on the path absorb some energy, then you can test it in vacuum. use same laser to heat up target at difference distance, the farther target will take longer to heat up.
 

Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Would the photon lose all its energy at infinity?
« Reply #234 on: 04/07/2015 18:15:36 »
the first one you sent (
) is 2:30 long.
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Would the photon lose all its energy at infinity?
« Reply #235 on: 04/07/2015 18:33:20 »
the size of the beam put aside, we can investigate more.

how you explain the beam is not bending the flame? is that enough to prove that the beam is not particle beam?
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Would the photon lose all its energy at infinity?
« Reply #236 on: 04/07/2015 18:49:04 »
all the readers have no opinion?

just 2 people care about light?

strange forum.
 

Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Would the photon lose all its energy at infinity?
« Reply #237 on: 04/07/2015 19:48:00 »
only two readers care about your opinion, apparently (and one of them is you)
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Would the photon lose all its energy at infinity?
« Reply #238 on: 04/07/2015 20:11:20 »
how you explain the beam is not bending the flame? is that enough to prove that the beam is not particle beam?

do you care about true nature of light? still think light is photon emitted by electrons change orbitals?
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Would the photon lose all its energy at infinity?
« Reply #239 on: 04/07/2015 20:28:32 »
between any atoms there is gravitation force f=G x m1m2/r^2. fact

1 atom vibrates in 1 direction, all other atoms within its gravitational field feel the vibration force according to distance and force direction. logically sounding. fact.

are gravitation waves carry energy? yes. is gravitation wave a particle? no. 

if em radiation is not gravitation radiation, what is it? photon emitted by atoms?

how hot gasses/plasma  on the sun emit photons? electrons change orbitals? how many orbitals in a hot gas atom/plasma ? why is sunlight spectrum continue?
 

Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Would the photon lose all its energy at infinity?
« Reply #240 on: 04/07/2015 23:13:14 »
The solar spectrum is not continuous. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraunhofer_lines
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Would the photon lose all its energy at infinity?
« Reply #241 on: 04/07/2015 23:20:51 »
how electrons change orbitals in plasma?
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Would the photon lose all its energy at infinity?
« Reply #242 on: 04/07/2015 23:54:39 »
LHC proton beams has no electron, how come the impact produce light?
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Would the photon lose all its energy at infinity?
« Reply #243 on: 06/07/2015 01:21:46 »
laser beam/photon beam leave the source, travel at c. each photon carries same amount of energy. therefore, the beam's energy is the same at 1 m or 10 m away from the source.

therefore, the first and the last balloon should take same time to pop. obviously, the videos showed opposite result.

same amount of photon, why carry different amount energy at different distance?

please help me to think, i'm lost.
 

Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Would the photon lose all its energy at infinity?
« Reply #244 on: 06/07/2015 02:10:26 »
The laser spreads out slightly as it goes (like a flashlight, but to a much smaller extent) so the laser "beam" is actually a laser "cone." The rate that the balloons pop has to do with the intensity of the laser light (unit power per unit area, for instance mW/cm2)

This is why the furthest balloon takes longer to burst than the closest.

Why would you think that distance would effect gravity but not EM? Anything that spreads out into space will have decreased intensity with distance.
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Would the photon lose all its energy at infinity?
« Reply #245 on: 06/07/2015 04:39:35 »
The laser spreads out slightly as it goes (like a flashlight, but to a much smaller extent) so the laser "beam" is actually a laser "cone." The rate that the balloons pop has to do with the intensity of the laser light (unit power per unit area, for instance mW/cm2)

This is why the furthest balloon takes longer to burst than the closest.

Why would you think that distance would effect gravity but not EM? Anything that spreads out into space will have decreased intensity with distance.

i think your laser cone argument is pretty weak. laser beam does not expend.

gravity is f=Gxm1m2/r^2, that's why distance effect gravity.

any matter/particle that spreads out into space will not decrease intensity with distance. newton's law says so. planet's momentum never decrease, comets momentum never decrease, why photons?

i understand, it is tough to accept, the whole world think light is photon particle, einstein got noble for it. qm based on quantum/photon. if it is not true, isn't the world turned up side down?

i really don't know how you feel, but i was shocked when i realized i was right. 

well, we used to be the center of the stars.

 
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Would the photon lose all its energy at infinity?
« Reply #246 on: 06/07/2015 09:20:48 »
if photon proved to be wrongton, can we get a nobel?

strange thing is last 2 day many people here but only 2 nuts talked.
 

Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Would the photon lose all its energy at infinity?
« Reply #247 on: 06/07/2015 22:01:21 »
The laser spreads out slightly as it goes (like a flashlight, but to a much smaller extent) so the laser "beam" is actually a laser "cone." The rate that the balloons pop has to do with the intensity of the laser light (unit power per unit area, for instance mW/cm2)

This is why the furthest balloon takes longer to burst than the closest.

Why would you think that distance would effect gravity but not EM? Anything that spreads out into space will have decreased intensity with distance.

i think your laser cone argument is pretty weak. laser beam does not expend.

gravity is f=Gxm1m2/r^2, that's why distance effect gravity.

any matter/particle that spreads out into space will not decrease intensity with distance. newton's law says so. planet's momentum never decrease, comets momentum never decrease, why photons?

i understand, it is tough to accept, the whole world think light is photon particle, einstein got noble for it. qm based on quantum/photon. if it is not true, isn't the world turned up side down?

i really don't know how you feel, but i was shocked when i realized i was right. 

well, we used to be the center of the stars.

It's not that the momentum of each photon decreases with distance--that is certainly not true! What changes is the number of photons passing per unit area per unit time (photons per cm2 per second). Why would you say that the laser beam doesn't expand? For thing, you can clearly see the divergence in the video that YOU sent a link to (at the timepoints that I recommended). For another, you can look up:
http://www.quora.com/Is-the-light-from-lasers-reduced-by-the-inverse-square-law-as-distance-grows-similar-to-other-light-sources
http://vlab.amrita.edu/?sub=1&brch=189&sim=342&cnt=1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beam_divergence
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Would the photon lose all its energy at infinity?
« Reply #248 on: 06/07/2015 23:07:23 »
why is particle beam not bending flame? not produce air flow?

Laser light from gas or crystal lasers is highly collimated because it is formed in an optical cavity between two parallel mirrors, in addition to being coherent. In practice, gas lasers use slightly concave mirrors, otherwise the power output would be unstable due to mirror non-parallelism from thermal and mechanical stresses. The divergence of high-quality laser beams is commonly less than 1 milliradian, and can be much less for large-diameter beams. Laser diodes emit less-collimated light due to their short cavity, and therefore higher collimation requires a collimating lens.
 

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Re: Would the photon lose all its energy at infinity?
« Reply #248 on: 06/07/2015 23:07:23 »

 

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