# The Naked Scientists Forum

### Author Topic: can mass be negative?  (Read 18831 times)

#### alancalverd

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##### Re: can mass be negative?
« Reply #25 on: 10/03/2015 00:23:49 »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron

Mass of Electron = 9.109 382 91(40)×10−31 kg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positron

Mass of Positron =  9.109 382 91(40)×10−31 kg

See? Exactly the same.

Just to be pedantic, the positron mass quoted in Wikipedia is the recommended value: I don't think anyone has actually measured it directly to 1 part in 1010. The recommendation is based on the presumption that it is exactly equal to the electron mass, which is confirmed by  measurements of pair annihilation and common sense.

#### ScientificSorcerer

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##### Re: can mass be negative?
« Reply #26 on: 10/03/2015 01:58:37 »
SO antimatter is made of negative energy BUT it has positive mass just like regular matter.  So -E=MC˛? We know E is negative in anti particles and mass is a positive number wheat about C?  It does not appear to me that antiparticles should have -C but does it?.

so how can E=mc˛ and -E=mc˛?
« Last Edit: 10/03/2015 02:01:59 by ScientificSorcerer »

#### Ethos_

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##### Re: can mass be negative?
« Reply #27 on: 10/03/2015 04:05:07 »
SO antimatter is made of negative energy
Neither matter nor antimatter is made of energy. However, matter has energy as a constituent part of it's character. I frankly don't see any evidence for the existence of "negative energy". Energy is the force that  produces change so how would anyone define "negative energy"? To suggest that "negative energy" produces no change is exactly the same as "no energy" and that simply means the absence of energy.

No such thing as "negative energy".

#### PmbPhy

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##### Re: can mass be negative?
« Reply #28 on: 10/03/2015 04:43:06 »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron

Mass of Electron = 9.109 382 91(40)×10−31 kg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positron

Mass of Positron =  9.109 382 91(40)×10−31 kg

See? Exactly the same.

Just to be pedantic, the positron mass quoted in Wikipedia is the recommended value: I don't think anyone has actually measured it directly to 1 part in 1010. The recommendation is based on the presumption that it is exactly equal to the electron mass, which is confirmed by  measurements of pair annihilation and common sense.
It most certainty has been measured to that precision as has all the proper masses of all the elementary particles. And they theoretical have the exact same mass too. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiparticle
Quote
Corresponding to most kinds of particles, there is an associated antiparticle with the same mass and opposite charge (including electric charge).
It's not an approximate mass, its the same mass. Just ask any particle physicist. You can look up the measured masses of all particle/antiparticle pairs and verify this fact.

#### PmbPhy

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##### Re: can mass be negative?
« Reply #29 on: 10/03/2015 05:03:16 »
Quote from: ScientificSorcerer
SO antimatter is made of negative energy BUT it has positive mass just like regular matter.
As I already explained in Reply 21, no. Antimatter is only a relative term. I.e. it is merely a convention which is called matter and which is called antimatter. See Supersymmetry and Beyond: From Higgs Boson to the New Physics by Gordon Kane
Quote
There is a certain popular mystique about antimatter that is not justified. The particles and their antiparticles are all particles with different charges. The antiparticles have all been observed. Which is called the particle and which is called the antiparticle is just a convention.

Quote from: ScientificSorcerer
So -E=MC˛? We know E is negative in anti particles and mass is a positive number wheat about C?  It does not appear to me that antiparticles should have -C but does it?.
That's all wrong as I said in Reply 21. Didn't you read that response to that assertion? If you're going to ignore what I post then what purpose is there in posting. If you disagreed with it then say so, don't just ignore it please.

#### Courier of darkness

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##### Re: can mass be negative?
« Reply #30 on: 10/03/2015 07:18:40 »
SO antimatter is made of negative energy BUT it has positive mass just like regular matter.  So -E=MC˛? We know E is negative in anti particles and mass is a positive number wheat about C?  It does not appear to me that antiparticles should have -C but does it?.

so how can E=mc˛ and -E=mc˛?

If E=mc˛ and -E=mc˛ it means that E=-E and +1=-1

The only possibility to solve this paradox is that antimatter has negative energy -E=-mc˛
and regular matter has positive energy +E = +mc˛

Their sum is -E + E = 0
During the Big Bang there were equal amounts of antimatter and regular matter and  -E + E = 0

Whether antiparticles have -c , does not matter in E = mc˛, because c˛ is positive regardless
of if c is positive or negative.

#### PmbPhy

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##### Re: can mass be negative?
« Reply #31 on: 10/03/2015 09:14:03 »
Quote from: Courier of darkness
If E=mc˛ and -E=mc˛ it means that E=-E and +1=-1
CD - This is not the New Theories sub forum. You're not allowed to post your own theories here so please stop making these incorrect claims. Antimatter does not have negative energy. You're basing that assumption that the "anti" in the term "antimatter" means that all of its properties are negative to matter including energy. That's a false belief, aka that is not what the term means so please stop making this false claim. If you want to do this you have to go to the new theories forum.

Quote from: Courier of darkness
The only possibility to solve this paradox is that antimatter has negative energy -E=-mc˛
and regular matter has positive energy +E = +mc˛
Wrong. There is no paradox and this claim makes no sense whatsoever. You started your argument by making a false claim, i.e. your false claim E=mc˛ and -E=mc˛ and then arrived at a contradiction and claimed there was a paradox. When you start off with an incorrect claim then of course you're going to arrive at nonsense.

In propagating all your false beliefs you've now got Scientific Sorcerer believing false assertions and making the same mistakes that you're making. Please knock it off.

#### PmbPhy

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##### Re: can mass be negative?
« Reply #32 on: 10/03/2015 09:21:39 »
SO antimatter is made of negative energy
Neither matter nor antimatter is made of energy. However, matter has energy as a constituent part of it's character. I frankly don't see any evidence for the existence of "negative energy". Energy is the force that  produces change so how would anyone define "negative energy"? To suggest that "negative energy" produces no change is exactly the same as "no energy" and that simply means the absence of energy.

No such thing as "negative energy".
What he's referring to when it comes to negative energy is totally wrong. But there is such a thing as negative energy. We run into it all the time in physics as a matter of fact. Alan Guth describes the example of the negative energy of the gravitational field. See:
http://home.comcast.net/~peter.m.brown/ref/guth_grav_energy.pdf

#### Courier of darkness

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##### Re: can mass be negative?
« Reply #33 on: 10/03/2015 11:08:54 »
Antimatter does not have negative energy.

Are you telling that antimatter has positive energy?

Quote from: Courier of darkness
The only possibility to solve this paradox is that antimatter has negative energy -E=-mc˛
and regular matter has positive energy +E = +mc˛
Wrong.

I am not propagating false beliefs.

It is not me who is saying that positive energy is the same as negative energy.

I am saying that negative energy is not equal to positive energy.

It is you who is propagating false beliefs if you tell that antimatter has positive energy.

#### PmbPhy

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##### Re: can mass be negative?
« Reply #34 on: 10/03/2015 11:47:44 »
Quote from: Courier of darkness
Are you telling that antimatter has positive energy?
Of course I am. I've made that excruciatingly clear in this thread.

Quote from: Courier of darkness
I am not propagating false beliefs.
When you repeatedly claim that antimatter has negative energy that is exactly what you're doing.

Quote from: Courier of darkness
It is you who is propagating false beliefs if you tell that antimatter has positive energy.
Nope. You're quite wrong. Every physicist knows that  antimatter has positive energy. If you chose to study it rather than make such a claim then you'd know that. I know you never read it in a physics text and merely assumed that it had to have negative energy based on your incorrect assumptions of what antimatter is. Several times now, perhaps on purpose, you've ignored the fact what is called matter and what is called antimatter is a matter of convention. There's nothing inherent about anything which would allow someone to call it either matter or antimatter. A particle is only "anti" to another particle.

Try learning about it before you post again and make false claims based on your ignorance. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimatter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiparticle
« Last Edit: 10/03/2015 13:47:00 by PmbPhy »

#### lightarrow

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##### Re: can mass be negative?
« Reply #35 on: 10/03/2015 12:40:26 »
I am not propagating false beliefs.

It is not me who is saying that positive energy is the same as negative energy.

I am saying that negative energy is not equal to positive energy.

It is you who is propagating false beliefs if you tell that antimatter has positive energy.
Ok, please write a link to a university Physics book, better if it's a book on "elementary particles Physics", where it is stated, and proved, that antimatter has negative energy.
Hint1: you won't find any.
Hint2: popular books don't always (I shoud say: almost never) convey real physics, start to study physics in serious books.

--
lightarrow

#### Bill S

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##### Re: can mass be negative?
« Reply #36 on: 10/03/2015 12:44:14 »
Matt Strassler
http://profmattstrassler.com/articles-and-posts/particle-physics-basics/particleanti-particle-annihilation/
says:

“Now, a fact: if I put a particle and an anti-particle together, almost all their properties cancel.  For instance, the electric charge of a muon (a heavy cousin of the electron) plus the electric charge of an anti-muon equals zero; the former is negative, the latter positive, but they are equal in size and so they cancel perfectly.   The only things that don’t cancel are their masses and energies.”

Why do the mass and energy not cancel?
My understanding is that that is because the masses and energies of both particles and anti-particles are positive.

Am I on the right lines?

For non-experts like me, Matt’s articles are very valuable.  On  particle/anti-particles I would also recommend looking at:

#### Courier of darkness

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##### Re: can mass be negative?
« Reply #37 on: 10/03/2015 12:47:49 »
Quote from: Courier of darkness
Are you telling that antimatter has positive energy?
Of course I am. I've made that excruciatingly clear in this thread.

Then you are wrong.

You are telling that negative energy -E is the same as positive energy +E

And that is a paradox. You are telling that there is no paradox.

Quote from: Courier of darkness
I am not propagating false beliefs.
When you repeatedly claim that antimatter has negative energy that is exactly what you're doing.

Quote from: Courier of darkness
It is you who is propagating false beliefs if you tell that antimatter has positive energy.
Nope. You're quite wrong. Every physicist knows that  antimatter has positive energy.

Not true. Because physicists seem to agree that:

During the Big Bang there were equal amounts of antimatter  and regular matter
and their sum was -E + E = 0

If you chose to study it rather than make such a claim then you'd know that. I know you never read it in a physics text and merely assumed that it had to have negative energy based on your incorrect assumptions of what antimatter is. Several times now, perhaps on purpose, you've ignored the fact what is called matter and what is called antimatter is a matter of convention. There's nothing inherent about anything which would allow someone to call it either matter or antimatter. A particle is only "anti" to another particle.

Try learning about it before you post again and make false claims based on your ignorance.

I have made no incorrect assumptions of what antimatter is.

You are making incorrect assumptions. It is you who should learn what antimatter
is.

#### lightarrow

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##### Re: can mass be negative?
« Reply #38 on: 10/03/2015 12:56:43 »
Quote from: Alan
Richard Feyman said that a positron is an electron going backwards in time.

Was it a joke, or is it just something that has been distorted with time and repetition?

I think what Feynman actually said was: “… the math describing anti-particles moving forward in time is the same as the math describing particles moving backward in time.”  This is a somewhat different statement from that which is commonly attributed to him.

An antiparticle's wavefunction is the coniugated complex of its correspondent particle. A part of it, in the particle's wavefunction, comprise the term e-iωt where ω is the particle's energy (divided by ħ) and t is the time. So in the antiparticle's wavefunction, that part will be, instead, eiωt.
At that time, when just a part of the story was known, it was natural to interprete an antiparticle as having negative ω (negative energy) or as negative t (moving back in the time).
But that was, indeed, just a part of the story. Today we know that an antiparticle must have positive energy and must move ahead in time (to see this last thing it's enough to see a photo of a positron going through a lead plate, inside a magnetic field, in a bubble chamber), that part of the wavefunction it's just "a part".

--
lightarrow

#### PmbPhy

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##### Re: can mass be negative?
« Reply #39 on: 10/03/2015 13:54:26 »
Quote from: Courier of darkness
Then you are wrong.
Please make an attempt to derive what you claim to be true rather than merely stating your claim.

You're clearly been ignoring every single fact and argument that I've posted explaining why you're wrong. Why? For example; why don't you explain why you've ignored the fact that what is called matter and what is called antimatter is arbitrary and as such you can't distinguish which is which by the sign of the energy? I anxiously await your reply. You can look this up in the following source

Introduction to Elementary Particles by David Griffiths, (2004). On page 21 the author writes
Quote
The positron, then, is an antielectron. (Actually, it is in principle completely arbitrary which one you call the "particle" and which one you call the "antiparticle" - I could just as well have said that the electron is the antipositron. But since there are a lot of electrons around, and not so many positrons, we tend to think of electrons as "matter" and positrons as "antimatter".)
Please make sure you, read, absorb and comment on this fact and then try to prove your claim again with this in mind.

Quote from: Courier of darkness
You are telling that negative energy -E is the same as positive energy +E
No. You haven't been listening at all. I ***never*** said that. I said that the energy of any antiparticle/antimatter is positive, not negative.

Quote from: Courier of darkness
I am not propagating false beliefs.
You most certainly are. The fact that you won't be able to find anything such as a journal or a textbook or a physicist that would agree with you proves it. You've also been ignoring statements from experts to the contrary. Why are you doing that? E.g. see
Quote

Quote from: Courier of darkness
Not true. Because physicists seem to agree that:
Quote
They most certainly do not agree on that. You've misinterpreted the zero-energy universe hypothesis which states:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-energy_universe
Quote
The zero-energy universe theory states that the total amount of energy in the universe is exactly zero: its amount of positive energy in the form of matter is exactly canceled out by its negative energy in the form of gravity.

The theory originated in 1973, when Edward Tryon proposed in the Nature journal that the Universe emerged from a large-scale quantum fluctuation of vacuum energy, resulting in its positive mass-energy being exactly balanced by its negative gravitational potential energy.[3]
There is no negative energy particles canceling the positive energy particles. The positive energy matter is being canceled by the negative potential energy of the gravitational field. How do I know this? Because I'm a physicist who not only specializes in special relativity but studies general relativity and cosmology. And I have very intelligent and knowledgeable colleagues who help me understand what I'm studying who are authorities in their respective fields.

Quote from: Courier of darkness
During the Big Bang there were equal amounts of antimatter and regular matter
and their sum was -E + E = 0
Not just during the Big Bang but now and forever too. In any case those are separate facts, not the same fact.

Fact #1) The number of electrons, protons and neutrons was greater than the number of positrons, antiprotons and antineutrons in the early universe. The "particles" annihilated their corresponding "antiparticles." This process kept going until the antiparticles were all gone. Now they only have a temporary existence during particle interactions.

Fact #2) The amount of mass in the universe had a finite value of positive energy. The value of the gravitational potential energy in the universe had the exact same magnitude but opposite sign (i.e. negative). So the total energy of the universe was, is and for shall ever be, zero!

You can read all about it in my friends book Inflationary Universe. That part is online at:
http://home.comcast.net/~peter.m.brown/ref/guth_grav_energy.pdf
« Last Edit: 10/03/2015 14:45:27 by PmbPhy »

#### PmbPhy

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##### Re: can mass be negative?
« Reply #40 on: 10/03/2015 13:56:31 »
Quote from: Bill S
Matt Strassler
http://profmattstrassler.com/articles-and-posts/particle-physics-basics/particleanti-particle-annihilation/
says:

“Now, a fact: if I put a particle and an anti-particle together, almost all their properties cancel.  For instance, the electric charge of a muon (a heavy cousin of the electron) plus the electric charge of an anti-muon equals zero; the former is negative, the latter positive, but they are equal in size and so they cancel perfectly.   The only things that don’t cancel are their masses and energies.”

Why do the mass and energy not cancel?
My understanding is that that is because the masses and energies of both particles and anti-particles are positive.

Am I on the right lines?
Yes, Bill. Of course you are. I explained to him that every single textbook on the subject that talks about the mass and energy of antimatter will explain this. He may not want to look it up for fear of being proved false.

#### Courier of darkness

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##### Re: can mass be negative?
« Reply #41 on: 10/03/2015 14:38:11 »
Quote from: Courier of darkness
Then you are wrong.
I'm assuming that you understand that just because you repeat something it doesn't make it correct, right? You're clearly wrong and that's not a guess, that's a fact. You're clearly been ignoring every single fact and argument that I've posted merely so you can repeat yourself.

It is you who is wrong. It is you who is ignoring clears facts.

I have told how physicists agree with me that during the Big Bang there were
equal amounts of antimatter and matter and their sum was -E + E = 0

This equation can only be true if the negative energy  -E is not equal to positive
energy +E.

Antimatter has the energy -E, negative energy.
Regular matter has the energy +E, positive energy.

Quote from: Courier of darkness
You are telling that negative energy -E is the same as positive energy +E
What in the world is wrong with you? Are you not listening? I NEVER said that. I said that the energy of any antiparticle/antimatter is positive, not negative.

Nothing is wrong with me.
You are telling that the negative energy -E of antimatter is in fact positive.
Look what you are writing , you say that antimatter has positive energy.
In other words, you are telling that -E=+E, it is a paradox. You are telling there is no paradox.

There is no paradox if antimatter has negative energy so that -E+E=0

Quote from: Courier of darkness
I am not propagating false beliefs.
You most certainly are. The fact that you won't be able to find anything such as a journal or a textbook or a physicist that would agree with you proves it.

Most physicsts agree with me:
The sum -E + E = 0 can be true only if the antimatter has negative energy.

Quote from: Courier of darkness
Not true. Because physicists seem to agree that:

During the Big Bang there were equal amounts of antimatter  and regular matter
and their sum was -E + E = 0
Those are separate facts. I showed that to Ethos and explained why. You just weren't paying attention. The total energy of the universe was zero. The positive energy was from matter/antimatter and the negative energy was from the negative gravitational potential energy.

Meanwhile I have no time left for your arrogance and unwillingness to learn.

It is you who is arrogant and unwilling to learn.

#### Ethos_

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##### Re: can mass be negative?
« Reply #42 on: 10/03/2015 14:45:30 »
Alan Guth describes the example of the negative energy of the gravitational field. See:
http://home.comcast.net/~peter.m.brown/ref/guth_grav_energy.pdf
Thanks for the link Pete. I will give it a look see.

#### PmbPhy

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##### Re: can mass be negative?
« Reply #43 on: 10/03/2015 15:07:20 »
Quote from: Courier of darkness
It is you who is wrong. It is you who is ignoring clears facts.
You're wrong again. You sure know how to be irritating, don't you. You come here making all sorts of claims, ***totally ignore*** the arguments that I've posted which ***prove*** that you're wrong but not only do you ignore them (because you know you can't prove that I'm wrong) but you refuse to state any sort of proof that you're right. You refuse to make any argument of what you hold to be true and refuse to state a source of your claims like lightarrow and myself have asked you for. And we know why you won't too. Because that would prove us right and you wrong.

Quote from: Courier of darkness
I have told how physicists agree with me that during the Big Bang there were
equal amounts of antimatter and matter and their sum was -E + E = 0
Why aren't you listening? I explained your error and you can't fathom it? Read it again
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-energy_universe
Quote
The zero-energy universe theory states that the total amount of energy in the universe is exactly zero: its amount of positive energy in the form of matter is exactly canceled out by its negative energy in the form of gravity.[1][2]

The theory originated in 1973, when Edward Tryon proposed in the Nature journal that the Universe emerged from a large-scale quantum fluctuation of vacuum energy, resulting in its positive mass-energy being exactly balanced by its negative gravitational potential energy.[3]
It's the ***gravitational potential energy*** that's negative, not any matter. I also explained to you that what is called matter and what is called antimatter is arbitrary. So according to your (bogus) claim, there's no valid reason to say that the energy of an electron is positive since it could be called the anti-particle and have a negative energy.

Quote from: Courier of darkness
Antimatter has the energy -E, negative energy.
Regular matter has the energy +E, positive energy.
A bunch of nonsense. You're just far too much of a layman to understand this. Pick up a book and learn the subject.

Quote from: PmbPhy
Nothing is wrong with me.
Bullshit. You keep on ignoring all the proof that you're wrong. Do you know how much of an idiot that makes you come across as?

You're too arrogant to help because you've demonstrated on multiple occasions now that you're absolutely unwilling to respond to the proofs that you're wrong. You won't even acknowledge that such proofs were given.

I've been a physicist for 30 years now and have the equivalent of an MS in physics. I clearly know the subject infinitely more than you do from what you've posted to date. You'll never learn by ignoring the proofs that people level against the nonsense you post.

#### PmbPhy

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##### Re: can mass be negative?
« Reply #44 on: 10/03/2015 15:08:46 »
Alan Guth describes the example of the negative energy of the gravitational field. See:
http://home.comcast.net/~peter.m.brown/ref/guth_grav_energy.pdf
Thanks for the link Pete. I will give it a look see.
Thanks.

This joker is way beyond help since he refuses to address all the proofs I've leveled against his bogus claims. If you have any questions or wish to discuss it let's take it to our private forum. Okay?

#### Ethos_

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##### Re: can mass be negative?
« Reply #45 on: 10/03/2015 16:24:26 »

This joker is way beyond help since he refuses to address all the proofs I've leveled against his bogus claims. If you have any questions or wish to discuss it let's take it to our private forum. Okay?
Agreed.................

#### Courier of darkness

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##### Re: can mass be negative?
« Reply #46 on: 10/03/2015 16:56:08 »
Quote from: Courier of darkness
It is you who is wrong. It is you who is ignoring clears facts.
You're wrong again. You sure know how to be irritating, don't you. You come here making all sorts of claims, ***totally ignore*** the arguments that I've posted which ***prove*** that you're wrong but not only do you ignore them (because you know you can't prove that I'm wrong) but you refuse to state any sort of proof that you're right. You refuse to make any argument of what you hold to be true and refuse to state a source of your claims like lightarrow and myself have asked you for. And we know why you won't too. Because that would prove us right and you wrong.

I am not irritating. You are just simply wrong and unable to understand it, therefore you are irritated.

It is you who ignore the arguments that I show. From the beginning you were unable to understand
Feynman diagrams I posted. You were unable to learn why the photon is massless.

Quote from: Courier of darkness
I have told how physicists agree with me that during the Big Bang there were
equal amounts of antimatter and matter and their sum was -E + E = 0
Why aren't you listening? I explained your error and you can't fathom it?

I am listening if you have a point but I don't intend to bend according to your will.

If I am right I am going to tell it, don't suppose I agree with you if you are wrong. You seem to
interpret that kind of behavior as if I were not listening, or as if I were arrogant.

It's the ***gravitational potential energy*** that's negative, not any matter. I also explained to you that what is called matter and what is called antimatter is arbitrary. So according to your (bogus) claim, there's no valid reason to say that the energy of an electron is positive since it could be called the anti-particle and have a negative energy.

And what is the source of ***gravitational potential energy***?

If an electron would be called an antiparticle and have a negative energy, then the positron would be
called a particle and have a positve energy. The situation would be exactly the same as normally: there would be both the positive and negative energies, and corresponding particles and their antiparticles.

Quote from: Courier of darkness
Antimatter has the energy -E, negative energy.
Regular matter has the energy +E, positive energy.
A bunch of nonsense. You're just far too much of a layman to understand this. Pick up a book and learn the subject.

It seems that the layman is you if you keep denying clear facts.

Quote from: Courier of darkness
Nothing is wrong with me.
Bullshit. You keep on ignoring all the proof that you're wrong. Do you know how much of an idiot that makes you come across as?

You're too arrogant to help because you've demonstrated on multiple occasions now that you're absolutely unwilling to respond to the proofs that you're wrong. You won't even acknowledge that such proofs were given.

I've been a physicist for 30 years now and have the equivalent of an MS in physics. I clearly know the subject infinitely more than you do from what you've posted to date. You'll never learn by ignoring the proofs that people level against the nonsense you post.

So you started calling me names. Can you read my name? What do you think it suggests?
Might I rather be a bringer of darkness instead of a joker that you seem to think I am?

So far you have demonstrated nothing where I am wrong. You seem to think that I am wrong
if I don't bend according to your will.

I have told that you are wrong and why you are wrong, and that is what you cannot handle.

#### JohnDuffield

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##### Re: can mass be negative?
« Reply #47 on: 10/03/2015 18:11:22 »
This thread is going downhill, but nevertheless I must sound a note of caution on this:
But there is such a thing as negative energy. We run into it all the time in physics as a matter of fact. Alan Guth describes the example of the negative energy of the gravitational field. See:
http://home.comcast.net/~peter.m.brown/ref/guth_grav_energy.pdf
Gravitational field energy is positive, not negative. See this where Einstein says "the energy of the gravitational field shall act gravitatively in the same way as any other kind of energy". There is nothing that exists that consists of negative energy. People talk of binding energy as negative energy, but it involves less energy, not something that is made of negative energy. The zero energy universe is wrong too. When two objects fall together and coalesce, some of their mass-energy is converted into kinetic energy and radiated away. But conservation of energy applies. You do not end up with less energy that you started with. The same applies for more objects. Sorry Pete.
« Last Edit: 10/03/2015 18:17:00 by JohnDuffield »

#### PmbPhy

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##### Re: can mass be negative?
« Reply #48 on: 10/03/2015 20:57:05 »

This joker is way beyond help since he refuses to address all the proofs I've leveled against his bogus claims. If you have any questions or wish to discuss it let's take it to our private forum. Okay?
Agreed.................
At least this is in the forum where it belongs. I.e. this thread was moved here because it's outside the domain of mainstream physics meaning that what the OP claims are all WRONG.
« Last Edit: 10/03/2015 21:05:29 by PmbPhy »

#### alancalverd

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##### Re: can mass be negative?
« Reply #49 on: 11/03/2015 00:12:50 »
If an electron would be called an antiparticle and have a negative energy, then the positron would be
called a particle and have a positve energy. The situation would be exactly the same as normally: there would be both the positive and negative energies, and corresponding particles and their antiparticles.

Repeating nonsense doesn't turn it into sense, and starting a sentence with "If" doesn't make any of what follows into a fact. The mass and energy of both electrons and positrons is positive. You can measure it if you like: what better proof could there possibly be?

On the other hand if you have indeed measured the mass of a positron and discovered it to be negative, do tell us how you measured it and why everyone else was wrong.

Note for Pete: I can't find any reference to a direct measurement of positron mass, but I've seen a neat proposal for measuring the gravitational force on a positronium atom. The wikipedia link you gave only discusses the conservation requirement that  mp = me which is good enough for any sane person, but doesn't count as an independent and direct measurement.

#### The Naked Scientists Forum

##### Re: can mass be negative?
« Reply #49 on: 11/03/2015 00:12:50 »