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Author Topic: What makes lightning?  (Read 33771 times)

Offline alancalverd

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Re: What makes lightning?
« Reply #100 on: 01/04/2015 18:04:47 »

Why would a nobody who was not going anywhere with their life, who was never going to be a scientist, learn Calculus, something they will never use in their life?


You use it every time you catch a ball or cross a road. And when you grow up, you will use it when you drive a car, to avoid killing people.
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: What makes lightning?
« Reply #101 on: 01/04/2015 18:15:59 »

What happens at the initial starting point of lightning, the ''point zero'' I explained?

I do not believe it has been answered?  or I still do not understand the answer.

You won't understand the answer because the question is meaningless. Many people understand basic electrostatics, and quite a few have a good idea of what goes on inside thunderclouds. Several have explained both in this thread. But nobody has any idea what you mean by "point zero", and you seem to have failed to absorb the most elementary explanations we have given, because none of them include your bizarre preconceptions and absurd misappropriations of everyday terminology.

If you want to talk science, you have to use the same language as everyone else. You won't get far in France by shouting in German, so why should the experts and knowledgeable amateurs on this forum abandon their universal  professional vocabulary in order to peer into the murky depths of your fantasies? 

Hey! You have got a professional scientist to use adjectives! Quite an achievement! 
 

Offline Ethos_

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Re: What makes lightning?
« Reply #102 on: 01/04/2015 18:50:31 »

 so why should the experts and knowledgeable amateurs on this forum abandon their universal  professional vocabulary in order to peer into the murky depths of your fantasies? 

Hey! You have got a professional scientist to use adjectives! Quite an achievement!
Good one Alan,.................that observation produced a healthy belly laugh with a significant duration on my end of this conversation.

"the desperate and murky bottomless depths of his unimaginable, illogical, and incurable fantasies"



 

« Last Edit: 01/04/2015 19:01:38 by Ethos_ »
 

Offline Thebox

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Re: What makes lightning?
« Reply #103 on: 05/04/2015 00:55:26 »
Negative ion's can become temporarily attached to positive ion's , until the negative ion, by rules of thermodynamics and exchange from the positive to the negative ion, then also becomes a positive ion so then repels each other causing a rift in space?
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: What makes lightning?
« Reply #104 on: 05/04/2015 10:12:23 »
If that is a question,the answer is no.

If it is a statement, it is nonsense: charge is conserved, and a "rift in space" is meaningless.
 

Offline Thebox

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Re: What makes lightning?
« Reply #105 on: 05/04/2015 16:29:36 »
If that is a question,the answer is no.

If it is a statement, it is nonsense: charge is conserved, and a "rift in space" is meaningless.

it is a question, a rift -a crack, split, or break in something.   I consider lightning to be a split of the constant transparent we look through.

You say no, if opposite polarities attract? then surely negative ions are attracted to positive ions and vice versus.   Surely when any two ''objects'' are in contact they exchange heat from the warmer object to the colder object? 

Has seen with room temperature.

When I rub a balloon and create friction, I create a positive electrostatic charge, this allows the balloon to ''stick'' to a more negative surface such as a wall.   Now if I rub the wall and the balloon, ad then try to ''stick'' the balloon to the wall, what would happen?

would the wall repel the balloon by the same polarity of electrostatic charge?




 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: What makes lightning?
« Reply #106 on: 05/04/2015 18:01:26 »


it is a question, a rift -a crack, split, or break in something.   I consider lightning to be a split of the constant transparent we look through.
It isn't. Benjamin Franklin explained what it is, about 300 years ago. I don't think it has changed.

Quote
You say no, if opposite polarities attract? then surely negative ions are attracted to positive ions and vice versus.   Surely when any two ''objects'' are in contact they exchange heat from the warmer object to the colder object? 
Non sequitur: charge has nothing to do with temperature

Quote
When I rub a balloon and create friction, I create a positive electrostatic charge,
No, you separate charges - your sweater acquires an equal and opposite charge to the balloon.
Quote
this allows the balloon to ''stick'' to a more negative surface such as a wall.   Now if I rub the wall and the balloon, ad then try to ''stick'' the balloon to the wall, what would happen?

would the wall repel the balloon by the same polarity of electrostatic charge?
Why not try it and tell us?
 

Offline Thebox

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Re: What makes lightning?
« Reply #107 on: 05/04/2015 18:21:57 »


it is a question, a rift -a crack, split, or break in something.   I consider lightning to be a split of the constant transparent we look through.
It isn't. Benjamin Franklin explained what it is, about 300 years ago. I don't think it has changed.

Quote
You say no, if opposite polarities attract? then surely negative ions are attracted to positive ions and vice versus.   Surely when any two ''objects'' are in contact they exchange heat from the warmer object to the colder object? 
Non sequitur: charge has nothing to do with temperature

Quote
When I rub a balloon and create friction, I create a positive electrostatic charge,
No, you separate charges - your sweater acquires an equal and opposite charge to the balloon.
Quote
this allows the balloon to ''stick'' to a more negative surface such as a wall.   Now if I rub the wall and the balloon, ad then try to ''stick'' the balloon to the wall, what would happen?

would the wall repel the balloon by the same polarity of electrostatic charge?
Why not try it and tell us?

You say your sweater acquires an equal and opposite charge, does something spin ''backwards'', the opposite way?
 

Offline jeffreyH

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Re: What makes lightning?
« Reply #108 on: 05/04/2015 18:38:15 »
Why would a nobody who was not going anywhere with their life, who was never going to be a scientist, learn Calculus, something they will never use in their life?

You cannot develop a good understanding of physics without a grasp of the tools that physicists use. You are putting forward your own ideas on a physics forum without having gained this knowledge. You cannot sensible criticize the answers you are given without this grounding. It isn't easy to get to a point where you can start to master these tools. I certainly am not there yet which is why I read the answers given and verify them by using other sources. I know nothing of quantum physics and very little about the standard model so I don't post on those topics. Find yourself one area of physics and target your learning towards that initially. That way you are not shooting off in multiple directions with no idea of any subject.
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: What makes lightning?
« Reply #109 on: 05/04/2015 22:27:56 »
You say your sweater acquires an equal and opposite charge, does something spin ''backwards'', the opposite way?

Charge has nothing to do with spin.
 

Offline Thebox

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Re: What makes lightning?
« Reply #110 on: 12/04/2015 14:19:09 »
Why would a nobody who was not going anywhere with their life, who was never going to be a scientist, learn Calculus, something they will never use in their life?

You cannot develop a good understanding of physics without a grasp of the tools that physicists use. You are putting forward your own ideas on a physics forum without having gained this knowledge. You cannot sensible criticize the answers you are given without this grounding. It isn't easy to get to a point where you can start to master these tools. I certainly am not there yet which is why I read the answers given and verify them by using other sources. I know nothing of quantum physics and very little about the standard model so I don't post on those topics. Find yourself one area of physics and target your learning towards that initially. That way you are not shooting off in multiple directions with no idea of any subject.

I would argue knowledge is memorised words from someone else's words and thought's, I would argue that I can think for myself and need no knowledge of present to consider and think about anything, I would argue my ideas are based on a ''beginning principle'', something always has routes.  Physics is not hard to consider any aspect, I wish I did not shy away from it at school now.

The sun and lightning are a plasma, when plasma dissipates it becomes a gas, when the gas is dissipated is becomes scattered fragments of plasma gas,

What happens at the sun , plasma to gas conversion?  as seen in solar flare dissociation from the sun and space
« Last Edit: 12/04/2015 14:32:34 by Thebox »
 

Offline Ophiolite

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Re: What makes lightning?
« Reply #111 on: 14/04/2015 16:37:16 »
I would argue knowledge is memorised words from someone else's words and thought's,
If you genuinely believe this is what constitutes knowledge then it would explain why you appear to know so little.

I would argue that I can think for myself and need no knowledge of present to consider and think about anything,
True, but if you wish to think effectively and efficiently, then ignoring what is already known is strange blend of arrogance and foolishness. I remind you of the famous quote of Newton, "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants".

I would argue my ideas are based on a ''beginning principle'', something always has routes.
I am sure that statement has significance for you. Perhaps you will rephrase it so others can understand its meaning.

Physics is not hard to consider any aspect, I wish I did not shy away from it at school now.
I suspect several members share that regret. However, as others have pointed out, it is not too late for you to learn, but you need to go about it the right way. You are not presently doing so.

The sun and lightning are a plasma, when plasma dissipates it becomes a gas, when the gas is dissipated is becomes scattered fragments of plasma gas,
Wrong. To my knowledge there is no such thing as plasma gas. If such exists, please provide references for its definition.

What happens at the sun , plasma to gas conversion?  as seen in solar flare dissociation from the sun and space
Incomplete and consequently meaningless phrase.
 

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Re: What makes lightning?
« Reply #111 on: 14/04/2015 16:37:16 »

 

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