The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: Can voltage differences be the cause of gravity and heat?  (Read 18011 times)

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4719
  • Thanked: 155 times
  • life is too short to drink instant coffee
    • View Profile
Re: Can voltage differences be the cause of gravity and heat?
« Reply #50 on: 12/04/2015 08:00:49 »
1. What experimental evidence do you have that contradicts everyone else's? Most physics undergraduates have measured the charge and mass of a single electron. Your "consideration" is worthless.

2.
Quote
In consideration of voltage the sun and the earths core must produce a positive voltage output and solids absorb this output?
Why "must"? Have you any idea of the meaning of words like "voltage"?
 

Offline Thebox

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3162
  • Thanked: 45 times
    • View Profile
Re: Can voltage differences be the cause of gravity and heat?
« Reply #51 on: 12/04/2015 14:07:03 »
1. What experimental evidence do you have that contradicts everyone else's? Most physics undergraduates have measured the charge and mass of a single electron. Your "consideration" is worthless.

2.
Quote
In consideration of voltage the sun and the earths core must produce a positive voltage output and solids absorb this output?
Why "must"? Have you any idea of the meaning of words like "voltage"?

1. Science evidence would be the same evidence, a perceptive view difference does not alter the Physics involved. Two things that attract will not have any space between, science implies that the electron is attracted to the proton yet has the ability to not touch the proton which is physically impossible by the laws of attraction.


2 .  Do I know what voltage is?  is that a genuine question........of cause I know what voltage is, what charge is what capacity is.
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4719
  • Thanked: 155 times
  • life is too short to drink instant coffee
    • View Profile
Re: Can voltage differences be the cause of gravity and heat?
« Reply #52 on: 12/04/2015 17:14:11 »
Quote
science implies that the electron is attracted to the proton yet has the ability to not touch the proton which is physically impossible by the laws of attraction.

That's why scientists use quantum mechanics rather than your idiosyncratic "laws of attraction" to describe what actually happens. We don't impose scientific laws on the universe, we discover them by observation, and if the observation doesn't fit the law, we revise the law. In the case of atomic orbitals, the "law" was substantively revised in 1926 and hasn't changed much since then. Get with the program, my friend!


Quote
Do I know what voltage is?  is that a genuine question........of cause I know what voltage is, what charge is what capacity is.

Then why do your posts consistently misuse the words? 
 

Offline Thebox

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3162
  • Thanked: 45 times
    • View Profile
Re: Can voltage differences be the cause of gravity and heat?
« Reply #53 on: 13/04/2015 01:21:04 »
Quote
science implies that the electron is attracted to the proton yet has the ability to not touch the proton which is physically impossible by the laws of attraction.

That's why scientists use quantum mechanics rather than your idiosyncratic "laws of attraction" to describe what actually happens. We don't impose scientific laws on the universe, we discover them by observation, and if the observation doesn't fit the law, we revise the law. In the case of atomic orbitals, the "law" was substantively revised in 1926 and hasn't changed much since then. Get with the program, my friend!


Quote
Do I know what voltage is?  is that a genuine question........of cause I know what voltage is, what charge is what capacity is.

Then why do your posts consistently misuse the words?

Ok, thanks for listening and answering , I think I am just going to give up on science.   I have lost the interest in it now, I have not got the time to just  to sit here any more.
 

Offline Ethos_

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1277
  • Thanked: 14 times
    • View Profile
Re: Can voltage differences be the cause of gravity and heat?
« Reply #54 on: 13/04/2015 22:41:48 »


   I have lost the interest in it now, I have not got the time to just  to sit here any more.
I would like to see you continue long enough to learn a few things Mr. Box. But this will not only take effort on your part, it will include your willingness to take criticism and correction. Many of us have tried to help you understand why your present positions are untenable where tried and true physics are concerned. If you can learn to set you preconceived ideas aside long enough for the kind people here to help you learn a few basic facts, there may be hope for you yet. However, if you start anew by criticizing answers which we kindly offer, then I suggest it might be best if you did abandon science altogether.
 

Offline Thebox

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3162
  • Thanked: 45 times
    • View Profile
Re: Can voltage differences be the cause of gravity and heat?
« Reply #55 on: 04/05/2015 09:34:18 »
Jccc is trying to explain the same idea as me except with errors in logic and trying to redefine the atom.

My logic to simplify is this, imagine an asteroid in an asteroid belt orbiting an entropy system, as the entropy of the system increases in heat the asteroid gains more energy by thermodynamics, (it warms up), now we all know something that is heated such as air, rises and expands,


so if a asteroid is heated it will ''rise'' away from the source.  The asteroid becomes polarised equal to source.


Heat metal it expands, the warm atoms pushing the other warm  atoms away, air and gas does the same, some objects deform shape by the process.


I have to be right because the logic is flawless.

ampere differences?
« Last Edit: 04/05/2015 09:43:33 by Thebox »
 

Offline Colin2B

  • Global Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1921
  • Thanked: 124 times
    • View Profile
Re: Can voltage differences be the cause of gravity and heat?
« Reply #56 on: 04/05/2015 10:33:44 »
Jccc is trying to explain the same idea as me except with errors in logic ....

LOL, "errors in logic", hilarious,  then I read the rest of your post and I was hysterical, rolled up on the floor, tears rolling down my cheeks.
OK overstatement for effect, how about "quite amusing".

Edit: sorry, rewind that. Have just read this to one of our daughters, her reaction was "WHAT!!" Then we couldn't stop laughing, tears were really rolling down our cheeks.
Her opinion is that if it this bad we can never convince Mr Box.
« Last Edit: 04/05/2015 11:06:42 by Colin2B »
 

Offline Thebox

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3162
  • Thanked: 45 times
    • View Profile
Re: Can voltage differences be the cause of gravity and heat?
« Reply #57 on: 04/05/2015 11:14:34 »
Jccc is trying to explain the same idea as me except with errors in logic ....

LOL, "errors in logic", hilarious,  then I read the rest of your post and I was hysterical, rolled up on the floor, tears rolling down my cheeks.
OK overstatement for effect, how about "quite amusing".

Edit: sorry, rewind that. Have just read this to one of our daughters, her reaction was "WHAT!!" Then we couldn't stop laughing, tears were really rolling down our cheeks.
Her opinion is that if it this bad we can never convince Mr Box.

Laugh away, are you trying to say with your laughter that when a gas is heated it does not expand?

Are you trying to suggest that heated metal does not expand?

Are you suggesting that heated metal is stretched molecules?

My logic is correct and according to our physics.
 

Offline jeffreyH

  • Global Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3926
  • Thanked: 55 times
  • The graviton sucks
    • View Profile
Re: Can voltage differences be the cause of gravity and heat?
« Reply #58 on: 04/05/2015 11:50:58 »
Have you ever read a book on classical mechanics? That is likely a good place to start. Also you will need a good grasp of algebra and calculus. It isn't easy to learn and understand the laws of physics without this effort. I would look forward to a proper debate with you once you have made a little progress. Everyone here would actually help you learn. That is exactly what this forum is meant to do. Just have a think about it. You may surprise yourself.
 

Offline Thebox

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3162
  • Thanked: 45 times
    • View Profile
Re: Can voltage differences be the cause of gravity and heat?
« Reply #59 on: 04/05/2015 14:05:35 »
Have you ever read a book on classical mechanics? That is likely a good place to start. Also you will need a good grasp of algebra and calculus. It isn't easy to learn and understand the laws of physics without this effort. I would look forward to a proper debate with you once you have made a little progress. Everyone here would actually help you learn. That is exactly what this forum is meant to do. Just have a think about it. You may surprise yourself.

I have never read an actual book, I have read internet articles if that counts.  I am always learning each and every day, I understand what I talk about to a degree. If you want to learn me, help me, talk about the expansion of metal in this thread , and gas expansion.

What opposes the gravity of a pocket of air (a cluster)  to make it expand?



 

Offline chiralSPO

  • Global Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1879
  • Thanked: 145 times
    • View Profile
Re: Can voltage differences be the cause of gravity and heat?
« Reply #60 on: 04/05/2015 16:19:44 »
Solids and gases are different because the particles of a solid (atoms or molecules) interact strongly with each other, while particles in a gas (again, atoms or molecules) hardly interact at all (if we ignore the interaction completely, we can still accurately describe how gases behave generally).

In both cases temperature relates to how much the particles are moving with respect to each other.

In the case of a gas, the particles are not bound to each other, and are whizzing around at relatively high speeds. The hotter the gas gets, the faster the particles move. If there is nothing containing a gas, the particles will keep on going, and the gas will dissipate. But if the gas is held in a container the gas particles hit the walls and bounce back. The hotter the gas is, the faster the particles move, and the harder they hit the walls. If the container is rigid, then the volume of gas remains constant and the pressure increases as the temperature increases. If the container is not perfectly rigid (like a balloon), then the volume will also increase.

If there is no container wall, but a gravitational field that holds it in, then you can think of the gas particles moving very fast "up" but slowing down until they stop and fall back "down." The hotter the gas gets, the faster the particles move, and the farther "up" they can get before falling "down." Eventually, if you heat the gas enough, the particles can go fast enough to escape from the gravitational field, and never come back (this is what happened to Mercury's atmosphere.)

In the case of a solid, the particles still move a little bit, but they're stuck together, so all they can do is "jiggle". The hotter it gets, the faster the particles jiggle. Imagine a crowd of people packed very tightly into a small tent. There really isn't much room to move around, but some music starts playing, and they start dancing. They can't move about freely, and are close enough that each person is trapped between their neighbors. But the people on the edges can push out a little bit against the tent walls so that everyone has a little room to rock out (but they still are all trapped by their neighbors). The tempo of the music starts going up, and people start dancing a little more wildly (there are a few accidents, but no one can get out of the way, so they just laugh it off and keep dancing). At some point the people on the edge are pressed up against the tent so hard that they break through and knock the tent over. Now there's enough space for people to move between their neighbors, but they still all stick close to oneanother because they're all still dancing (at this point the solid has melted).

Basically, the faster the particles in a solid, liquid or gas move, the more space they want to take up. Solids and liquids can only expand a little bit because the particles are all stuck together, but gases can expand freely because the particles do not. This is why if you heat a piece of gold up from 25 C to 100 C its volume will only increase by about 0.3%, but a gas that is free to expand would increase its volume by 25%.
 

Offline Colin2B

  • Global Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1921
  • Thanked: 124 times
    • View Profile
Re: Can voltage differences be the cause of gravity and heat?
« Reply #61 on: 04/05/2015 18:58:11 »

Laugh away, are you trying to say with your laughter that when a gas is heated it does not expand?

Are you trying to suggest that heated metal does not expand?

Are you suggesting that heated metal is stretched molecules?

My logic is correct and according to our physics.

No I wasn't staying that. You have obviously forgotten these 3 statements:

Jccc is trying to explain the same idea as me except with errors in logic ............

so if a asteroid is heated it will ''rise'' away from the source.  The asteroid becomes polarised equal to source.

ampere differences?
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4719
  • Thanked: 155 times
  • life is too short to drink instant coffee
    • View Profile
Re: Can voltage differences be the cause of gravity and heat?
« Reply #62 on: 05/05/2015 17:13:46 »
My logic is correct and according to our physics.

Squibble blart foojum, in our language. I don't expect you to understand, and it isn't even true, but who cares, as long as  I can tell my mum that I've posted on a big boys' science forum!
 

Offline Ethos_

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1277
  • Thanked: 14 times
    • View Profile
Re: Can voltage differences be the cause of gravity and heat?
« Reply #63 on: 05/05/2015 19:17:22 »

I have never read an actual book,
That explains a lot!!



Quote from: TheBox

 I have read internet articles if that counts. 
It only counts if the author of the article is a credible physicist and recognized by his peers.
And also, if that information is not just a reproduction of said physicists words taken out of context. People are always doing that to the likes of Einstein and many other recognized scientific giants of our past. Suggesting that one of their comments meant something entirely different than the point they were actually trying to express.

I suggest you spend less time on the internet and read a few good physics books. Pete can recommend some very good ones for you to read, give it a try!
 

Offline Thebox

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3162
  • Thanked: 45 times
    • View Profile
Re: Can voltage differences be the cause of gravity and heat?
« Reply #64 on: 05/05/2015 20:36:37 »

I have never read an actual book,
That explains a lot!!



Quote from: TheBox

 I have read internet articles if that counts. 
It only counts if the author of the article is a credible physicist and recognized by his peers.
And also, if that information is not just a reproduction of said physicists words taken out of context. People are always doing that to the likes of Einstein and many other recognized scientific giants of our past. Suggesting that one of their comments meant something entirely different than the point they were actually trying to express.

I suggest you spend less time on the internet and read a few good physics books. Pete can recommend some very good ones for you to read, give it a try!

Thank you for the advice but I do not think Pete is really talking to me any more. I do not mean to sound ungrateful  but is Wiki not everything I need in brief detail a starting premise for opinion?

Will a book say it any differently?

A theory about something that does not have a sound theory can not be wrong, it can only be discussed to see if it is right.  Like have stated I am not a scientist, probably not even a good amateur scientist but what I do have is a very good ability to think.   I do it at work I do it in life I survive and solve problems .   

I read wiki and question it if it is not logically 100% no more no less without prejudiced.  It is you scientists who need to sort it out and go write down a proper paper because you know what you are doing and I do not.

I am being honest here for once and i have been through delusions of grandeur and back again to reality .  However I fixed myself by science and realisation that i was nut ball crazy.   

I am telling you honestly that quite a bit of my ideas are really a concern to me when i know your version and my version works better because my versions offer true physical process.

I am tired from a 13 hr working day forgive the bad writing.

 

Offline Thebox

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3162
  • Thanked: 45 times
    • View Profile
Re: Can voltage differences be the cause of gravity and heat?
« Reply #65 on: 08/05/2015 10:35:16 »
Atoms are homonuclear neutral particles that are saturated in radiation by conduction that then charges the homonuclear particle  that then emits an electron field observed has light and heat often in the form of infra red and even spectral interaction, the homonuclear particle has the ability to change polarity by greater or lesser charge, the action of process is continuous, the entropy of a single homonuclear particle in a state of constant flux by a constant flux of thermodynamics. Energy never stops moving...Electricity does not travel along a wire, the electricity charges the wire the wire emits in a convection motion an electrical magnetic field .  The homonuclear particles are naturally attracted to each other and is only the electron field emitted that allows them to remain ajar.


see model here -

http://www.badscience.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=36878&p=1368030#p1368030

3 quarks make up a Proton, quarks are naturally attracted to each other, therefore protons are naturally attracted to each other,
« Last Edit: 08/05/2015 11:19:48 by Thebox »
 

Offline alancalverd

  • Global Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4719
  • Thanked: 155 times
  • life is too short to drink instant coffee
    • View Profile
Re: Can voltage differences be the cause of gravity and heat?
« Reply #66 on: 08/05/2015 12:08:35 »
Atoms are homonuclear neutral particles that are saturated in radiation by conduction that then charges the homonuclear particle.....

Drivel. Why waste your life putting random words into a meaningless sentence?
 

Offline Thebox

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3162
  • Thanked: 45 times
    • View Profile
Re: Can voltage differences be the cause of gravity and heat?
« Reply #67 on: 08/05/2015 14:10:31 »
Atoms are homonuclear neutral particles that are saturated in radiation by conduction that then charges the homonuclear particle.....

Drivel. Why waste your life putting random words into a meaningless sentence?
The rest of it explains it well, I added a model, I added a molecular structure

http://www.badscience.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=36878&p=1368209#p1368209


It makes sense to me sorry even if not to you.
 

Offline chiralSPO

  • Global Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1879
  • Thanked: 145 times
    • View Profile
Re: Can voltage differences be the cause of gravity and heat?
« Reply #68 on: 08/05/2015 14:39:46 »
You have forgotten that even homonuclear atoms contain isosbestic contributions from entropically modified topological formulations. To adjust for this, you need to add a relativistic silicon-based tensor to balance out the isothermal voltage generated by the isosceles gravitational manifold.

Heteronuclear atoms are even more complicated...
 

Offline Colin2B

  • Global Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1921
  • Thanked: 124 times
    • View Profile
Re: Can voltage differences be the cause of gravity and heat?
« Reply #69 on: 08/05/2015 14:44:22 »
Heteronuclear atoms are even more complicated...
Dynotetic ones even more so. Saw a paper about those recently, fascinating reading.
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: Can voltage differences be the cause of gravity and heat?
« Reply #69 on: 08/05/2015 14:44:22 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums