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Author Topic: Alzheimer's disease and sage  (Read 19700 times)

Offline liz

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Alzheimer's disease and sage
« on: 28/12/2003 00:27:14 »
I understand that there has been quite a lot of research into the positive effects of sage in relation to Alzheimer's Disease.

Does anyone have any information about the properties of sage, or any other natural substances (eg gingko biloba) that can (apparently) influence brain function, and slow down the development of dementia.

[?] Liz


 

Offline Ylide

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Re: Alzheimer's disease and sage
« Reply #1 on: 28/12/2003 09:16:26 »
Well, it's my understanding that folks who use their brains in an analytic manner (puzzles, problem solving, science, etc) are less likely to develop Alzheimers.  Perhaps it's feasible that herbs which stimulate the brain can have a beneficial effect in this way.  



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Offline bezoar

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Re: Alzheimer's disease and sage
« Reply #2 on: 28/12/2003 15:41:48 »
So then, if we all keep participating in this forum, then none of us will end up with Alzheimer's, right?

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Offline Ylide

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Re: Alzheimer's disease and sage
« Reply #3 on: 28/12/2003 17:47:49 »
I can think of a few that don't put a lot of mental power into their posts.  *cough* christianchick *cough*

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Offline Donnah

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Re: Alzheimer's disease and sage
« Reply #4 on: 29/12/2003 02:37:50 »
Autopsies on Alzheimers victims showed that they had as much as four times the concentration of aluminum in the brain, particularly the hippocampus (memory area).  They also had elevated mercury levels.  Apple pectin is a natural chelate that is good for removing heavy metals from the body.  Better yet, learn what contains aluminum and avoid it.

Sources of aluminum include aluminum cans for soda, iced tea etc., aluminum cookware, deodorant (aluminum chlorhydrate), processed cheese, antacids and antidiarrheal remedies in the form of aluminum salts (aluminum hydroxide, kaolin, attapulgite, aluminum magnesium silicate).  Read labels.
 

Offline Ylide

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Re: Alzheimer's disease and sage
« Reply #5 on: 29/12/2003 09:16:20 »
I've heard vague information about aluminum being related to Alzheimer's, but was never quite sure exactly how...thanks Donnah.  Are the metals the suspect cause or just a byproduct of another chemical defect in the body's chemistry that is causing accumulation of metals in the brain due to an enzyme or something shuttling them around?



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Offline Donnah

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Re: Alzheimer's disease and sage
« Reply #6 on: 29/12/2003 23:19:58 »
Great question Jay.  Chronic calcium deficiency can change the way the body uses minerals (causing aluminum accumulation) so logic would dictate that other body chemicals could do the same.  At this point in time metals are on the list of suspects.
 

Offline tweener

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Re: Alzheimer's disease and sage
« Reply #7 on: 05/01/2004 20:34:35 »
I've only heard vague information about aluminum and alzheimer's, but it is enough that I've eliminated all aluminum cookware from my kitchen.  I'm trying to eliminate the teflon, but my dad would probably set the house on fire trying to cook on stainless.

Maybe I'll have to use this as an excuse to eliminate deodorant. :D


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Offline Ylide

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Re: Alzheimer's disease and sage
« Reply #8 on: 06/01/2004 02:29:18 »
What's so bad about teflon?  It's pretty inert.



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Offline tweener

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Re: Alzheimer's disease and sage
« Reply #9 on: 06/01/2004 22:07:53 »
I've heard vague information that teflon is highly carcinogenic (sp?).  And in my house, it gets burned pretty regularly, and then it starts flaking off into the food.


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Offline Ylide

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Re: Alzheimer's disease and sage
« Reply #10 on: 07/01/2004 06:04:03 »
Teflon is a fluorinated carbon (polymerized C2F4) compound and is neither electrophilic in nature nor is it prone to radical formation aside from those that are normally able to homolytically break carbon double bonds.  Those are the big 2 for carcinogenic character.  I don't think there's anything in the digestive tract capable of homolysis of carbon double bonds, otherwise almost everything you eat would form lots of free radicals.  

Overheating Teflon can cause vaporization to some degree, but that's unlikely to happen at normal cooking temperatures...I believe it's somewhere around 260 C before this happens.  The flaking off is just a byproduct of heat and scraping.  You're in more danger from the butter or oil emitting carbon monoxide when the burner's used on high.

The production of Teflon is another story though....the stuff they make it out of and the byproducts of the manufacturing process are quite nasty and are unfortunately turning up in wildlife, air, and water.



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Offline chris

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Re: Alzheimer's disease and sage
« Reply #11 on: 08/01/2004 19:15:56 »
quote:
Originally posted by cannabinoid
 I don't think there's anything in the digestive tract capable of homolysis of carbon double bonds, otherwise almost everything you eat would form lots of free radicals.  



But what about bacteria present in the digestive tract. I suspect that they may well have some additional metabolic pathways that could allow this to occur. In addition, free-radicals clearly do crop up in the G.I. tract because people develop bowel cancer.

Chris

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Offline Ylide

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Re: Alzheimer's disease and sage
« Reply #12 on: 08/01/2004 19:50:22 »
But would free radicals made from the occasional Teflon particle be any worse on your system than a free radical made from, say, a chain of an unsaturated lipid?  DNA is damaged regardless, right?

BTW, how is it that eletrophilic molecules and free radicals are able to get into cells and seek the DNA anyway?  I mean, there are 2 phosoplipid layers, one for the cell membrane and one for the nuclear membrane, and a ton of water, ions, and organelles in the way...how is it they home in on the DNA so readily?



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Offline tweener

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Re: Alzheimer's disease and sage
« Reply #13 on: 09/01/2004 04:42:52 »
Like I said it was only vague information.  

Asbestos is also very stable and can cause cancer, though I think the whole thing is way overblown.


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Offline Ylide

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Re: Alzheimer's disease and sage
« Reply #14 on: 09/01/2004 07:10:02 »
Asbestos doesn't cause cancer from a chemical reaction, though.  It creates microtears in lung tissue that repeatedly scar over and retear.  I'm not sure exactly how this causes cancer, though, but the phenomenon is due to the small, sharp crystalline structure of the asbestos minerals.  I'm pretty sure Teflon doesn't break off as jagged sharp particles.  

Coincedentally, I used to work in a lab that scanned air samples for asbestos.  That was one of the worst jobs I ever had....looking at slide after slide after slide of air filter cross sections, all day, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.



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Offline chris

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Re: Alzheimer's disease and sage
« Reply #15 on: 09/01/2004 17:30:41 »
Free radical species which damage DNA are readily synthesised within the cell itself as a bi-product of metabolism. Oxygen is the commonest causative culprit, so as obligate aerobes we find ourselves in a catch 22 situation.

Chris

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Offline tweener

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Re: Alzheimer's disease and sage
« Reply #16 on: 09/01/2004 18:46:21 »
Funny, I never thought of myself as an "obligate aerobe", but I guess it's true!


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Offline bezoar

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Re: Alzheimer's disease and sage
« Reply #17 on: 11/01/2004 03:59:19 »
I read that the biggest source of mercury in our bodies comes from coal burning energy plants.  And as for the aluminum, lay off the Mylanta too

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Offline Ylide

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Re: Alzheimer's disease and sage
« Reply #18 on: 11/01/2004 09:18:20 »
From an evolutionary standpoint, why did we evolve a metabolism mechansim that can damage our DNA?  Modern metabolisms all originate with glucolysis, which is supposedly VERY ancient.  It's just the very end of the proton transport chain (where oxygen uptakes a proton to form water) where oxygen is needed.  

Is it the reaction of oxygen with OTHER things in the cell that causes the problem or is it a "misfiring" of the proton gradient that causes an incomplete reaction of protons and oxygen leading to free radicals?  Inquiring minds want to know!

as far as mercury goes, I know that long-lived fish are also sources of mercury poisoning...they accumulate high levels of mercury from the ocean in their muscle tissue, which we then eat.  If you're pregant especially, do NOT eat things like swordfish.



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Offline bezoar

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Re: Alzheimer's disease and sage
« Reply #19 on: 12/01/2004 03:41:51 »
I think Tuna, too, is high in mercury, but apparently the coal burning plants contribute more damage than eating fish.

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Offline tweener

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Re: Alzheimer's disease and sage
« Reply #20 on: 13/01/2004 17:21:56 »
I just read an article that farm-raised Salmon is very high in contaiminants and the "authorities" are recommending that people don't eat it more than once a month.  I don't know the sources, but it bothers me that our food supply is becoming contaminated in so many ways.


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Offline bezoar

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Re: Alzheimer's disease and sage
« Reply #21 on: 14/01/2004 14:06:13 »
I read something about that too -- that the farm raised fish are high in contaminants.  You'd think when they're farm raised, they'd be purer, huh?

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Offline Donnah

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Re: Alzheimer's disease and sage
« Reply #22 on: 15/01/2004 02:59:18 »
Apparently the farm raised salmon get a lot of salmon lice too.
 

Offline tweener

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Re: Alzheimer's disease and sage
« Reply #23 on: 15/01/2004 03:14:48 »
The farm raised Salmon are "farmed" in the ocean, but confined to cages and fed commercial feed.  (National Geographic had an article a few months ago is how I know anything about this.)  So, since costal waters are usually more contaminated than deep ocean, it makes sense.  Maybe.  Maybe this "study" was bogus too.


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Offline tweener

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Re: Alzheimer's disease and sage
« Reply #24 on: 15/01/2004 03:22:37 »
quote:
Originally posted by cannabinoid

From an evolutionary standpoint, why did we evolve a metabolism mechansim that can damage our DNA?  Modern metabolisms all originate with glucolysis, which is supposedly VERY ancient.  It's just the very end of the proton transport chain (where oxygen uptakes a proton to form water) where oxygen is needed.  

Is it the reaction of oxygen with OTHER things in the cell that causes the problem or is it a "misfiring" of the proton gradient that causes an incomplete reaction of protons and oxygen leading to free radicals?  Inquiring minds want to know!

...



I would think from an evolutionary standpoint this would not matter much.  When aerobic metabolism was evolving, the life span of the individauls was very short, thus the cancers caused by free radicals would have little or no impact on the survival of the genes.  Even now that it is firmly established, the only species that have a problem are the ones that live an unnaturally long life span (like humans and maybe their pets), and even then they have usually finished their reproductive years before cancer sets in.


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The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: Alzheimer's disease and sage
« Reply #24 on: 15/01/2004 03:22:37 »

 

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