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Author Topic: Theory of light  (Read 18809 times)

Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #25 on: 20/04/2015 04:22:04 »
in fact, it is charges produce force. charge vibrates, its force/field vibrates, within the field, force transfer to other charges.

atoms are build by charges, atom produces gravitational force/field. atom vibrates, produces force wave.

gravity is em force. all forces are em force. just my view, can't prove yet.

all this came from the doubt of atomic structure. i started thinking it at 1970
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #26 on: 20/04/2015 07:39:54 »
Force, momentum and energy are all different. Please learn the difference and use the correct word if you want an answer to a scientific question.
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #27 on: 20/04/2015 08:21:24 »
force and energy is same thing to me. i don't think force is momentum at all.

did you ever doubt any science theories? did you dig in till find answers? please share your experiences, appreciate. must be very interesting to all of us.
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #28 on: 20/04/2015 08:33:22 »
Alan, i think temperature can be defined as average atom vibrating force/momentum in a system.

what i mean is in gas state, atom momentum proportional to temperature. in solid state, atom vibrating force proportional to temperature.

wiki didn't gave a definition to temperature, so i have my own thought. thoughts?
 

Offline jamesmaxwell767

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #29 on: 25/04/2015 14:10:07 »
If no one has already, I thought this might be interesting to look up.  It is a physics lecture Richard Feynman did called:  Photons:  Corpuscles of Light.  The Sir Douglas Robb Lectures at University of Auckland 1979.  You can probably find it on youtube.  I don't have the original link, it's an old file I have from when I was in college.  No, I'm not that old. :D .  I attended college starting in 2012.  I love listening to his lectures, also Leonard Susskind.  Just thought it may help in some way.  Sometimes it's best to start over at the beginning and just re-think all of it all over again.  If you come up with nothing new, no harm done but a better understanding of it will come out of it.  enjoy!
 

Offline PmbPhy

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #30 on: 25/04/2015 14:43:26 »
Quote from: jccc
force and energy is same thing to me.
That's why it's unwise for people to accept anything you say as being correct. It might be that to you but it certainly isn't the way Newton, and thereby the rest of the physics community and the world, defined it. Newton very clearly defined it as follows: if an object has a mass m and is moving with velocity v then the force is defined as

F = dp/dt

where p = mv is the particles momentum.

Quote from: jccc
i don't think force is momentum at all.
So what? Nobody else does either.
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #31 on: 25/04/2015 16:06:37 »
If no one has already, I thought this might be interesting to look up.  It is a physics lecture Richard Feynman did called:  Photons:  Corpuscles of Light.  The Sir Douglas Robb Lectures at University of Auckland 1979.  You can probably find it on youtube.  I don't have the original link, it's an old file I have from when I was in college.  No, I'm not that old. :D .  I attended college starting in 2012.  I love listening to his lectures, also Leonard Susskind.  Just thought it may help in some way.  Sometimes it's best to start over at the beginning and just re-think all of it all over again.  If you come up with nothing new, no harm done but a better understanding of it will come out of it.  enjoy!

i like him a lot, more about personality, was a COOL man.
 

Offline jamesmaxwell767

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #32 on: 25/04/2015 22:16:46 »
I also found this while digging around for some other research I was doing.
o   Gravitational waves are weakly interacting, making them extraordinarily difficult to detect; at the same time, they can travel unhindered through intervening matter of any density or composition. Electromagnetic waves (i.e. light or photons) are strongly interacting with normal matter, making them easy to detect; but they are readily absorbed or scattered by intervening matter.
newbielink:http://www.tapir.caltech.edu/~teviet/Waves/differences.html [nonactive]

I highlighted that one part and italicized it as well, because neutrinos do exactly the same thing.  Or, they have the same properties in respect to that aspect between them anyway.
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #33 on: 25/04/2015 23:05:17 »
each atom has its own gravitational force/field.

vibrating/exiting atoms produce gravitational waves is logic/fact.

different mass atoms vibrate at same frequency, should produce same color of light, but of different multitude/strength/force/energy.

when current passes carbon wire, resistance makes carbon atoms vibrating, producing a range of light waves.

the stronger bounding force between atoms in a matter, should produce higher frequency gravitational waves.

all speculation, thoughts?
 

Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #34 on: 26/04/2015 03:22:27 »
The spectrum of light produced by hydrogen and deuterium is essentially identical, despite deuterium having twice the mass of hydrogen.

 

Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #35 on: 26/04/2015 03:23:55 »
The spectrum of light produced by hydrogen and deuterium is essentially identical, despite deuterium having twice the mass of hydrogen.

The spectra of 59Fe and 59Co are totally different, despite having nearly identical mass.
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #36 on: 26/04/2015 04:13:30 »
The spectrum of light produced by hydrogen and deuterium is essentially identical, despite deuterium having twice the mass of hydrogen.

The spectra of 59Fe and 59Co are totally different, despite having nearly identical mass.

good point and info!

maybe hydrogen and deuterium vibrate at same band of frequency, mass proportional to wave strength not frequency.

same mass, different bounding force strength between atoms in 59Fe and 59Co, would change the spectra? i said so.
 

Offline PmbPhy

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #37 on: 26/04/2015 05:26:32 »
The spectrum of light produced by hydrogen and deuterium is essentially identical, despite deuterium having twice the mass of hydrogen.
What do you mean by "essentially"? If you mean "very close" then I agree. One obtains the spectrum for atomic deuterium from the formula for atomic hydrogen by replacing the mass by the reduced mass.
 

Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #38 on: 26/04/2015 13:09:33 »
Yes, I meant "very close." They are not identical, as there is some influence from the mass of the nucleus, but it is insignificant compared to the influence of changing the atomic number (charge of the nucleus). It takes a very good spectrometer using some special techniques to distinguish an H emission spectrum from a D emission spectrum.
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #39 on: 26/04/2015 15:15:15 »
I also found this while digging around for some other research I was doing.
o   Gravitational waves are weakly interacting, making them extraordinarily difficult to detect; at the same time, they can travel unhindered through intervening matter of any density or composition. Electromagnetic waves (i.e. light or photons) are strongly interacting with normal matter, making them easy to detect; but they are readily absorbed or scattered by intervening matter.
http://www.tapir.caltech.edu/~teviet/Waves/differences.html

I highlighted that one part and italicized it as well, because neutrinos do exactly the same thing.  Or, they have the same properties in respect to that aspect between them anyway.

i read it, not agree. i think em force and gravitation force are the same force.

if the moon suddenly becomes a proton star, only carries n amount of positive charges, let's see the force between moon and earth. set earth has m protons and m electrons.

the attraction between moon proton and earth electron is n x m, the repulsion between earth proton and moon proton is also n x m. it should be no net force. but in reality, induce made the net em forces an attraction which proportional to the product of charges/masses.

if the moon becomes an electron star, we get the same amount of em attraction force/gravity.

gravity wave is produced by vibrating mess/charge, how could a star or the earth vibrate at high frequency? only atoms able to vibrate at high frequency to produce detectable waves.
 

Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #40 on: 26/04/2015 16:14:57 »

i read it, not agree. i think em force and gravitation force are the same force.

if the moon suddenly becomes a proton star, only carries n amount of positive charges, let's see the force between moon and earth. set earth has m protons and m electrons.

the attraction between moon proton and earth electron is n x m, the repulsion between earth proton and moon proton is also n x m. it should be no net force. but in reality, induce made the net em forces an attraction which proportional to the product of charges/masses.

if the moon becomes an electron star, we get the same amount of em attraction force/gravity.

If the moon became strongly charged (either positive or negative) there would be an added attractive force between the moon and the Earth because of an induced dipole--you are correct that there are an equal number of protons and electrons on the Earth (give or take a few), but incorrect in assuming that there would be no net force: if the moon became very positive, the electrons of the Earth would be attracted, and the protons repelled, ultimately causing the side of the Earth closer to the moon to get more negative, and the far side to get more positive. Now the attraction of the close negative side is greater than the repulsion of the far positive side.

gravity wave is produced by vibrating mess/charge, how could a star or the earth vibrate at high frequency? only atoms able to vibrate at high frequency to produce detectable waves.

who (other than you) said anything about high frequency gravity waves? light is high frequency EM waves. Gravity waves (which to my knowledge have not been detected yet) are more likely to be (relatively) low frequency, because, as you pointed out, stars are massive.
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #41 on: 26/04/2015 16:40:41 »
agreed, but this?  if the moon became very positive, the electrons of the Earth would be attracted, and the protons repelled, ultimately causing the side of the Earth closer to the moon to get more negative, and the far side to get more positive. Now the attraction of the close negative side is greater than the repulsion of the far positive side.

even in the case of proton moon, the attraction will be small. isn't the induce effect is only work at atom range not earth size?
 

Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #42 on: 26/04/2015 17:10:15 »
It works on any size that electrostatics works at. This certainly includes the macroscopic scale--for instance if you take an inflated balloon, rub it on your head and use it to pick up small things like feathers or paper slips or stick it on the wall (
and
). The balloon gets a charge, and it is attracted to the wall, even though the wall is neutral.

Now, if you put enough charge on the moon that electrostatic force on the Earth was substantial, the moon would probably start "throwing" charged dust off its surface.
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #43 on: 26/04/2015 17:58:54 »
It works on any size that electrostatics works at. This certainly includes the macroscopic scale--for instance if you take an inflated balloon, rub it on your head and use it to pick up small things like feathers or paper slips or stick it on the wall (
and
). The balloon gets a charge, and it is attracted to the wall, even though the wall is neutral.

Now, if you put enough charge on the moon that electrostatic force on the Earth was substantial, the moon would probably start "throwing" charged dust off its surface.

even the moon is all protons, the atoms on the near side of the earth or far side are induced about same attitude, the electrons in every single atom move toward to moon but still within the atom, it is not like the far side of the earth contain more proton in every atom and the near side atoms contain more electron. electrons moved position a little due to induce but still with the atom.

agree?
 

Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #44 on: 26/04/2015 18:19:32 »
Disagree.

Charge separation can be much more than within an atom. Especially considering Earth's salty oceans (dissolved and mobile positive and negative ions), which would probably accommodate much of the charge polarization. It would be like a tide, but instead of moving mass around, charge would move.
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #45 on: 26/04/2015 18:24:11 »
so if the moon is all proton, electrons on earth will discharge into the moon?

or the near side of the earth contains more electron per atom/volume?
 

Offline chiralSPO

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #46 on: 26/04/2015 18:39:09 »
well, if the moon were *all* proton, the moon would explode.

but, if we imagine that it doesn't somehow, Earth's electrons would ultimately find their way to the moon until the moon and Earth had equal pull on the remaining electrons.

If the moon had a major charge imbalance, and were similarly prevented from destroying itself, I would predict the electrons stay on the Earth, but that the Earth would be polarized.
 

Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #47 on: 26/04/2015 18:55:37 »
well, if the moon were *all* proton, the moon would explode.

but, if we imagine that it doesn't somehow, Earth's electrons would ultimately find their way to the moon until the moon and Earth had equal pull on the remaining electrons.

If the moon had a major charge imbalance, and were similarly prevented from destroying itself, I would predict the electrons stay on the Earth, but that the Earth would be polarized.

Chiral, appreciate your discussing!

prove me wrong will only help me to move onto right. i think the atoms each will be polarized but not the earth.

the attraction force between moon and electron in an atom on earth = n x 1/R^2

the attraction force between electron and nucleus = proton number x 1/r^2

my point is trying to find out/explain the mechanism of gravity, help me on it!



 

Offline jccc

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #48 on: 26/04/2015 19:07:02 »
see, it goes around around, comes around. the big question to me is still:

if the electron possible to discharge from earth atom into positive charged far away moon, why can't it discharge into own nucleus?
 

Offline alancalverd

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #49 on: 26/04/2015 19:51:12 »
Read about "field ionisation". In a strong enough electric field, you can indeed strip electrons from atoms. This phenomenon is used in mass spectrometers.

But electrostatics and electron orbitals have absolutely nothing to do with gravitation, so you won't find out anything about gravity by asking questons about electrostatics or atomic structure.
 

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Re: Is light a Gravitational Wave?
« Reply #49 on: 26/04/2015 19:51:12 »

 

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