# The Naked Scientists Forum

### Author Topic: Numbers 1*1=2  (Read 7749 times)

#### Thebox

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##### Numbers 1*1=2
« on: 18/04/2015 01:20:40 »
In a sense numbers do not exist by there self, generally a number is a chosen value given to something or given to a course of actions and reactions.

Any number without a purpose has the same value as zero.  1-infinite without a function all add up to the value of zero.

Without representation a number is measly an empty space with no value.

To define 1*1 = 1 is a breach of physical function rules.      1 something times 1 something must be the value of 2.  1*1=2 somethings

1 something*1 nothing = 1

1 nothing * 1 nothing = 0

an empty 1 can only equal zero or nothing.

« Last Edit: 18/04/2015 01:36:39 by Thebox »

#### chiralSPO

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##### Re: Numbers 1*1=2
« Reply #1 on: 18/04/2015 02:36:16 »
Box, I think you're confusing multiplication and addition...

If I eat one jelly bean every hour, and it's been one hour I have eaten one jelly bean (1*1 = 1)

If I eat 3 jelly beans every hour and it has been zero hours I have eaten zero jelly beans--I haven't started yet. (3*0 = 0)

If I eat zero jelly beans every hour and it has been 24 hours I have eaten zero jelly beans--and I never will. (0*24 = 0)

If one jelly bean weighs 0.001 kg and one kg of jelly beans costs thirty five dollars and I eat 5 jelly beans per hour and continue doing so for 200 days, each of which is twentyfour hours long, how much would that cost?

0.001*35*5*24*200 = 840

or with units, since that is important too:

35 \$/kg * 0.001 kg/bean * 5 beans/hour * 24 hours/day * 200 days = 840 \$

(quite a jelly bean habit)

I hope this helps...
Tune in next week for division!

#### jeffreyH

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##### Re: Numbers 1*1=2
« Reply #2 on: 18/04/2015 03:01:04 »
One person * 1 apple = 1 person apple
Two persons * 1 apple = 2 person apple

You do not get the plural of apples as there was only one defined

Two persons * 2 apples = 4 person apples

Now here we do have an inconsistency. There aren't 4 people or 4 apples.
So bizarrely you do have a point although you yourself missed it entirely. The point is context. You can define a context in which the result does not make logical sense. These are the sort of things that mathematicians spend lots of time investigating. Can we define a context in which 4 person apples is logically consistent.

#### alancalverd

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##### Re: Numbers 1*1=2
« Reply #3 on: 18/04/2015 09:18:44 »
There's nothing illogical about a person.apple, any more than a passenger.mile, and it's the cost per person.apple or passenger.mile that determines whether the orchard or the airline makes a profit.

#### Thebox

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##### Re: Numbers 1*1=2
« Reply #4 on: 18/04/2015 12:41:09 »
Box, I think you're confusing multiplication and addition...

If I eat one jelly bean every hour, and it's been one hour I have eaten one jelly bean (1*1 = 1)

If I eat 3 jelly beans every hour and it has been zero hours I have eaten zero jelly beans--I haven't started yet. (3*0 = 0)

If I eat zero jelly beans every hour and it has been 24 hours I have eaten zero jelly beans--and I never will. (0*24 = 0)

If one jelly bean weighs 0.001 kg and one kg of jelly beans costs thirty five dollars and I eat 5 jelly beans per hour and continue doing so for 200 days, each of which is twentyfour hours long, how much would that cost?

0.001*35*5*24*200 = 840

or with units, since that is important too:

35 \$/kg * 0.001 kg/bean * 5 beans/hour * 24 hours/day * 200 days = 840 \$

(quite a jelly bean habit)

I hope this helps...
Tune in next week for division!

You missed the point entirely.

''If I eat one jelly bean every hour, and it's been one hour I have eaten one jelly bean (1*1 = 1)''

you maths should read 1 jelly bean * 1 hour = 1 jelly bean per hour

1*1 is the same as 0*0 unless you define what one is.

1 apple - 1 apple = 1 apple

1 apple - destroy 1 apple = 0 apples
« Last Edit: 18/04/2015 12:49:43 by Thebox »

#### chiralSPO

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##### Re: Numbers 1*1=2
« Reply #5 on: 18/04/2015 13:27:41 »

You missed the point entirely.

''If I eat one jelly bean every hour, and it's been one hour I have eaten one jelly bean (1*1 = 1)''

you maths should read 1 jelly bean * 1 hour = 1 jelly bean per hour

given what I said it should be 1 hour * 1 jelly bean per hour = one jelly bean

also, 1 jelly bean * 1 hour = 1 jelly bean hour; not one jelly bean per hour

#### Thebox

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##### Re: Numbers 1*1=2
« Reply #6 on: 18/04/2015 15:08:56 »

You missed the point entirely.

''If I eat one jelly bean every hour, and it's been one hour I have eaten one jelly bean (1*1 = 1)''

you maths should read 1 jelly bean * 1 hour = 1 jelly bean per hour

given what I said it should be 1 hour * 1 jelly bean per hour = one jelly bean

also, 1 jelly bean * 1 hour = 1 jelly bean hour; not one jelly bean per hour

Surely that would truly be 1 hour * 1 jelly bean per hour consumed = 0 jelly beans every hour

1*1 is 1=2
« Last Edit: 18/04/2015 15:24:14 by Thebox »

#### chiralSPO

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##### Re: Numbers 1*1=2
« Reply #7 on: 18/04/2015 15:44:32 »
surely you jest

#### Thebox

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##### Re: Numbers 1*1=2
« Reply #8 on: 18/04/2015 23:27:49 »
surely you jest

I jest not, 1 is none, 1 is nothing without it being related to something, the context of use can be defined several ways.   I am not being daft or talking stupid, I know the meaning of 0.   1*1 suggests two constants, if I make an object 1 times itself bigger, 1*1=2

because one=3=1=0=zero point space,

If I have 1m and I want to enlarge the distance by itself, 1*1=2m Because 2 m is 1 times bigger than 1 m.

« Last Edit: 18/04/2015 23:54:25 by Thebox »

#### Ethos_

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##### Re: Numbers 1*1=2
« Reply #9 on: 19/04/2015 04:00:59 »

because one=3=1=0=zero point space,

If I have 1m and I want to enlarge the distance by itself, 1*1=2m Because 2 m is 1 times bigger than 1 m.
Mr. Box,............I suggest you give up on science and try something less complicated, something like maybe "crochet"?

#### Thebox

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##### Re: Numbers 1*1=2
« Reply #10 on: 19/04/2015 12:30:22 »

because one=3=1=0=zero point space,

If I have 1m and I want to enlarge the distance by itself, 1*1=2m Because 2 m is 1 times bigger than 1 m.
Mr. Box,............I suggest you give up on science and try something less complicated, something like maybe "crochet"?

I suggest you give up science if you can not understand the simplicity of what numbers are.

#### Colin2B

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##### Re: Numbers 1*1=2
« Reply #11 on: 19/04/2015 13:21:47 »
I suggest you give up science if you can not understand the simplicity of what numbers are.
Ethos fully understands numbers, what he can't understand is your misuse of operators.

#### Thebox

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##### Re: Numbers 1*1=2
« Reply #12 on: 19/04/2015 13:27:10 »
I suggest you give up science if you can not understand the simplicity of what numbers are.
Ethos fully understands numbers, what he can't understand is your misuse of operators.

It depends the context, misuse is only because someone defined it differently and that is what was accepted, I see it very different, 1 as a number on itself is the same as 0, it has no value on itself, no number does, that is why the answer is always zero,

one has 3 digits, one=3, 3 is 1 digit, 3=1, 1 is one digit,so 1=0 , 0 is equal to empty space and so on.....

#### Ethos_

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##### Re: Numbers 1*1=2
« Reply #13 on: 19/04/2015 15:34:54 »

1 as a number on itself is the same as 0, it has no value on itself, no number does, that is why the answer is always zero,

So,.......what's your point Mr. Box? How does this bit of nonsense elevate the human condition?

Numbers are tools that we use to illustrate relationships between various details of reality. I doubt that you understand the following exercise but I'll mention it anyway.

Dimensionless numbers like the fine structure constant are very real. So is the dimensionless number pi, without it, a majority of physical calculation would fall apart. In case you don't understand the term; "dimensionless number", a dimensionless number can stand on it's own as a physical reality in any number system.

I'm amused by your dilutions  Mr. Box. It's the only reason I even bother to respond to your ignorant posts!

« Last Edit: 19/04/2015 16:34:33 by Ethos_ »

#### Colin2B

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##### Re: Numbers 1*1=2
« Reply #14 on: 19/04/2015 16:19:23 »
one has 3 digits, one=3, 3 is 1 digit, 3=1, 1 is one digit,so 1=0 , 0 is equal to empty space and so on.....
So one hundred=11, one hundred=3 hundred, 11=2, 2=1
Hence 3=2

I get it now, really useful stuff. I suggest you write the textbook showing how it all fits together.

#### Ethos_

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##### Re: Numbers 1*1=2
« Reply #15 on: 19/04/2015 16:47:37 »
one has 3 digits, one=3, 3 is 1 digit, 3=1, 1 is one digit,so 1=0 , 0 is equal to empty space and so on.....
So one hundred=11, one hundred=3 hundred, 11=2, 2=1
Hence 3=2

I get it now, really useful stuff. I suggest you write the textbook showing how it all fits together.
I don't think Mr. Box has any future with the banking industry. Can you just imagine him working as your friendly teller at your local bank?

"Say there Mr. Box, I'd like some change for my twenty, make that two or three Franklins and maybe four or five Jefferson's. And throw in a couple of what ever else you have just laying around unattended. What ever suit's your fancy there Mr. Box.....Teller."

#### Colin2B

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##### Re: Numbers 1*1=2
« Reply #16 on: 19/04/2015 19:08:42 »
I think I've also got the hang of the operators. For consistency, 3*2=5 and 5=1

Can you just imagine him working as your friendly teller at your local bank?

"Say there Mr. Box, I'd like some change for my twenty, make that two or three Franklins and maybe four or five Jefferson's. And throw in a couple of what ever else you have just laying around unattended. What ever suit's your fancy there Mr. Box.....Teller."
I'm reminded of the rather dim forger who goes into a bank to change a 29 dollar note. The teller looks at the note, looks at the forger and says "certainly sir, will two 11s and a 7 be alright?"

#### Thebox

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##### Re: Numbers 1*1=2
« Reply #17 on: 19/04/2015 19:20:56 »
I think I've also got the hang of the operators. For consistency, 3*2=5 and 5=1

Can you just imagine him working as your friendly teller at your local bank?

"Say there Mr. Box, I'd like some change for my twenty, make that two or three Franklins and maybe four or five Jefferson's. And throw in a couple of what ever else you have just laying around unattended. What ever suit's your fancy there Mr. Box.....Teller."
I'm reminded of the rather dim forger who goes into a bank to change a 29 dollar note. The teller looks at the note, looks at the forger and says "certainly sir, will two 11s and a 7 be alright?"

correct, 3*2=5 and 5 = 1

#### Colin2B

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##### Re: Numbers 1*1=2
« Reply #18 on: 20/04/2015 08:03:57 »
Ok, so we understand part of your idea, but getting back to the question by Ethos

1 as a number on itself is the same as 0, it has no value on itself, no number does, that is why the answer is always zero,
Dimensionless numbers like the fine structure constant are very real. So is the dimensionless number pi,

Where do pi and other isolated numbers fit in. Are they, to retain consistency, zero?

#### Thebox

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##### Re: Numbers 1*1=2
« Reply #19 on: 20/04/2015 08:49:21 »
Ok, so we understand part of your idea, but getting back to the question by Ethos

1 as a number on itself is the same as 0, it has no value on itself, no number does, that is why the answer is always zero,
Dimensionless numbers like the fine structure constant are very real. So is the dimensionless number pi,

Where do pi and other isolated numbers fit in. Are they, to retain consistency, zero?

3.14 = 3 = 1 = 0

all numbers are zero unless  ''activated'' by a something to give the number  a meaning.     0 objects, 0 mph etc.

#### Colin2B

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##### Re: Numbers 1*1=2
« Reply #20 on: 20/04/2015 10:26:20 »
3.14 = 3 = 1 = 0
all numbers are zero unless  ''activated'' by a something to give the number  a meaning.     0 objects, 0 mph etc.
I understand what you are saying, but to prevent yourself being viewed as a crackpot and arrogant you need to express your ideas differently. For example:

"In my arithmetic all numbers are zero unless  ''activated'' by a something to give the number  a meaning."

But you also have to accept that this is not an arithmetic that physics finds useful. So if you wish to discuss physics, you need to use physics arithmetic. There is little point in going into the street and speaking mandarin and complaining that people don't understand you.
Your arithmetic would be understood in numerology, but that is not science.
The concept of number being associated with object is accommodated in science and number theory, but it is not the sole way of looking at numbers. It is part of the set of numbers.

I find the formula Px=PAsin(2∏ft) very useful. However, ∏ is not connected to anything physical, it has no meaning, it is a number in its own right, it also has a specific value, not 3, not 1, not 0. To think otherwise removes the usefulness of this formula.

If you want to talk science, you need to understand the language. Don't expect everyone to speak your mandarin.

#### alancalverd

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##### Re: Numbers 1*1=2
« Reply #21 on: 20/04/2015 12:24:48 »
Methinks Mr Box is confused by the concept of dimensionless numbers. Fortunately for the existence of the universe, such dimensionless constants as e, π, and α are not zero. And annoyingly for philosophers, numerologists and mystics in general, they are not rational either!
« Last Edit: 20/04/2015 12:26:43 by alancalverd »

#### Thebox

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##### Re: Numbers 1*1=2
« Reply #22 on: 21/04/2015 08:49:22 »
Methinks Mr Box is confused by the concept of dimensionless numbers. Fortunately for the existence of the universe, such dimensionless constants as e, π, and α are not zero. And annoyingly for philosophers, numerologists and mystics in general, they are not rational either!

Just FYI,  I do know standard maths and 1*1=1, I have not forgot the 12* table. The same with all my ideas, I know the origins....do not judge a book by its cover.

#### alancalverd

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##### Re: Numbers 1*1=2
« Reply #23 on: 21/04/2015 09:27:05 »
Excellent. Then you might be interested in Boolean algebra and vector operations, which may clarify some of your statements by the use of operators that most of us understand.

#### Thebox

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##### Re: Numbers 1*1=2
« Reply #24 on: 21/04/2015 18:16:09 »
Excellent. Then you might be interested in Boolean algebra and vector operations, which may clarify some of your statements by the use of operators that most of us understand.

Thank you for the Boolean algebra, I believe this is what I was trying to do/achieve.

Vector operations you mean like x,y,z, and time?   velocity and magnitude.

#### The Naked Scientists Forum

##### Re: Numbers 1*1=2
« Reply #24 on: 21/04/2015 18:16:09 »