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Author Topic: What dark matter really would be  (Read 2791 times)

Offline Richie46n2

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What dark matter really would be
« on: 22/05/2015 08:09:47 »
Dark matter is really just the effect of time on our limited perceptions. The only thing holding everything in place is just the amount of time relative to us for it to happen. For example, the universe is huge. So to our human minds the stars are expanding so slow because it's so far away. That's the only reason it hasn't 'flown off the merrygoround' yet. But technically it is flying off the edge expanding endlessly.


 

Offline jeffreyH

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Re: What dark matter really would be
« Reply #1 on: 22/05/2015 08:30:30 »
Dark matter is really just the effect of time on our limited perceptions. The only thing holding everything in place is just the amount of time relative to us for it to happen. For example, the universe is huge. So to our human minds the stars are expanding so slow because it's so far away. That's the only reason it hasn't 'flown off the merrygoround' yet. But technically it is flying off the edge expanding endlessly.

If that is the way you look at it then it is more likely that over time there is a loss of gravitational energy to the cosmic bulk. This then reduces the amount available to keep all the mass together. This does not explain the slowdown after the inflationary period or why the rate of expansion is increasing. If the spacetime is expanding faster than light then the effect of gravitation from the external bulk should be zero. It would then not matter how much gravity was lost. For acceleration to occur there must be a force. Otherwise you would have a constant velocity of expansion. Mass is after all inertial. You need to explain this expansion without the need for a force.
 

Offline Richie46n2

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Re: What dark matter really would be
« Reply #2 on: 22/05/2015 08:54:10 »
maybe it's not speeding up or slowing down and is just constant but SEEMS to change speed because of it's relativity to the point it expanded from. sort of like the distance causes it to dissolve
 

Offline liquidspacetime

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Re: What dark matter really would be
« Reply #3 on: 22/05/2015 13:57:09 »
The notions of dark matter and the dark matter particle are incorrect. The mass which fills 'empty' space is beginning to be referred to as the 'dark mass' in order to distinguish it from the baggage associated with dark matter.

'Dark Energy/Dark Mass: The Slient Truth'
https://tienzengong.wordpress.com/2015/04/22/dark-energydark-mass-the-silent-truth/

"That is, all that we are certain about [is] the dark mass, not dark matter, let alone to say about the dark 'particle'."

Particles of matter move through and displace the dark mass, including 'particles' as large as galaxies and galaxy clusters.

The Milky Way moves through and curves spacetime.

The Milky Way moves through and displaces the dark mass.

The state of displacement of the dark mass is curved spacetime.
 

Offline Richie46n2

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Re: What dark matter really would be
« Reply #4 on: 22/05/2015 18:23:38 »
ok what do you guys think of my theory though? Laymans terms please haha
 

Offline liquidspacetime

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Re: What dark matter really would be
« Reply #5 on: 22/05/2015 20:18:06 »
ok what do you guys think of my theory though? Laymans terms please haha

There is no such thing as dark matter. 'Empty' space has mass which is displaced by the particles of matter which exist in it and move through it. The Milky Way's halo is not a clump of dark matter traveling along with the Milky Way. The Milky Way is moving through and displacing the dark mass.

The dark mass displaced by the Milky Way pushes back and exerts inward pressure toward the Milky Way.

The pressure exerted toward and throughout the Milky Way by the dark mass displaced by the Milky Way is gravity.
 

Offline Richie46n2

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Re: What dark matter really would be
« Reply #6 on: 22/05/2015 20:41:13 »
ok. That's pretty much what I am saying though... And the reason it appears something is holding the planets where they are is time.
 

Offline Thebox

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Re: What dark matter really would be
« Reply #7 on: 22/05/2015 21:47:06 »
The notions of dark matter and the dark matter particle are incorrect. The mass which fills 'empty' space is beginning to be referred to as the 'dark mass' in order to distinguish it from the baggage associated with dark matter.

'Dark Energy/Dark Mass: The Slient Truth'
https://tienzengong.wordpress.com/2015/04/22/dark-energydark-mass-the-silent-truth/

"That is, all that we are certain about [is] the dark mass, not dark matter, let alone to say about the dark 'particle'."

Particles of matter move through and displace the dark mass, including 'particles' as large as galaxies and galaxy clusters.

The Milky Way moves through and curves spacetime.

The Milky Way moves through and displaces the dark mass.

The state of displacement of the dark mass is curved spacetime.

I disagree, because any curvature is always inside of a virtual cube, and from any vertex to vertex , time is constant and unchanged as can be timed using the speed of light.

space time curvature is simply distance vector displacement , a greater distance than a the linearity, in perspective near and far, there is no definitive universal up.


A rocket takes a curvature path, or angled path, from whose perspective.

Everything is not as you know it.

If you was in the south pole and I am in the north pole, there is not really a curve between us, it is always a straight line.



« Last Edit: 22/05/2015 21:52:39 by Thebox »
 

Offline liquidspacetime

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Re: What dark matter really would be
« Reply #8 on: 23/05/2015 00:26:10 »
ok. That's pretty much what I am saying though... And the reason it appears something is holding the planets where they are is time.

Not time. The displaced dark mass pushes back and exerts inward pressure toward the planets.

More correctly, the state of displacement of the dark mass is gravity.

The rate at which an atomic clock ticks is determined by the state of the dark mass in which it exists.
 

Offline liquidspacetime

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Re: What dark matter really would be
« Reply #9 on: 23/05/2015 00:28:20 »

I disagree, because any curvature is always inside of a virtual cube, and from any vertex to vertex , time is constant and unchanged as can be timed using the speed of light.

space time curvature is simply distance vector displacement , a greater distance than a the linearity, in perspective near and far, there is no definitive universal up.


A rocket takes a curvature path, or angled path, from whose perspective.

Everything is not as you know it.

If you was in the south pole and I am in the north pole, there is not really a curve between us, it is always a straight line.

The deformation of spacetime physically manifests itself as the state of displacement of the dark mass.
 

Offline Richie46n2

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Re: What dark matter really would be
« Reply #10 on: 25/05/2015 17:08:12 »
Ok yeah gravity I guess would be the force because the only thing measuring the time would be the amount of time for the stars to fall off the map and that will take forever cuz they have nowhere to go except to just keep expanding and that creates the illusion of time.
« Last Edit: 25/05/2015 17:16:35 by Richie46n2 »
 

Offline Richie46n2

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Re: What dark matter really would be
« Reply #11 on: 25/05/2015 17:12:57 »
Still what I am saying though is that they are moving/falling but just so slow it seems like they are held in place.

And that it's not that they are so much going slow but that they are so big and far away that it seems like it.
« Last Edit: 25/05/2015 17:15:45 by Richie46n2 »
 

Offline Richie46n2

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Re: What dark matter really would be
« Reply #12 on: 25/05/2015 17:20:15 »
So does that mean dark matter isn't really a substance but more like a force?
 

Offline PmbPhy

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Re: What dark matter really would be
« Reply #13 on: 26/05/2015 17:07:33 »
Hi Richie46n2 - If I haven't mentioned it yet, welcome to the forum. I'd like to suggest that you ignore whatever liquidspacetime posts because his understanding of physics is quite poor.

Before I start I'd like to ask you two questions (1) what you believe dark matter is (2) what observations led to its discovery and why? I.e. why has dark matter been postulated to exist given those observations?

Quote from: Richie46n2
Dark matter is really just the effect of time on our limited perceptions.
What are the premises on which your argument rests? What is the logical argument that led you from your premises to this conclusion?

Quote from: Richie46n2
The only thing holding everything in place is just the amount of time relative to us for it to happen.
So far all you've stated are speculations. You haven't made an argument as to why your assertions are correct.

Quote from: Richie46n2
For example, the universe is huge. So to our human minds the stars are expanding so slow because it's so far away.
What led you to this belief? There's no validity to it whatsoever. Stars aren't expanding at all. In fact they're shrinking! Perhaps you're thinking of the expansion of the universe where all galaxies are receding from all other galaxies. I.e. the universe is expanding.

Sorry, but it doesn't sound like you have a solid understanding of dark matter.
« Last Edit: 26/05/2015 17:19:56 by PmbPhy »
 

Offline Richie46n2

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Re: What dark matter really would be
« Reply #14 on: 26/05/2015 22:31:20 »
Hmm I see your point. I'm gonna need some time to answer these questions.
 

Offline Richie46n2

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Re: What dark matter really would be
« Reply #15 on: 13/07/2015 19:30:15 »
Everything is expanding so everything is moving away from everything..... This force is dark matter.
 

Offline Richie46n2

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Re: What dark matter really would be
« Reply #16 on: 13/07/2015 19:36:01 »
The force that makes them appear to be still... It is just time.
 

Offline Richie46n2

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Re: What dark matter really would be
« Reply #17 on: 13/07/2015 19:41:23 »
Nothing is held in place by anything but time.
 

Offline Richie46n2

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Re: What dark matter really would be
« Reply #18 on: 13/07/2015 19:42:01 »
And luckily we live in a perception of time where it is almost irrelevant that nothing is held in place. No need to be afraid... It's like it was designed this way. So we could understand not for the sake of knowledge but for the sake of utilizing it within our own realm relative(in relation) to our perception of these cosmic events happening.

(which might have nothing to do with it really... Like our personal and spiritual connections to each other)
« Last Edit: 13/07/2015 19:50:00 by Richie46n2 »
 

Offline Richie46n2

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Re: What dark matter really would be
« Reply #19 on: 13/07/2015 19:43:20 »
Just so we understand our place in the universe.
 

Offline Richie46n2

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Re: What dark matter really would be
« Reply #20 on: 13/07/2015 19:45:09 »
It's a spiritual cosmic mind collision.
 

Offline Richie46n2

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Re: What dark matter really would be
« Reply #21 on: 13/07/2015 19:51:07 »
and a test.. And the substance of miracles.
 

Offline PmbPhy

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Re: What dark matter really would be
« Reply #22 on: 13/07/2015 21:52:40 »
Everything is expanding so everything is moving away from everything..... This force is dark matter.
No, absolutely not. Where did you get that notion from? I want to help you understand cosmology so please don't be offended by my comments which follow. They're an attempt to help you understand where you've gone wrong and where to go from here. We'll take this point by point:

1) To begin with, it's quite clear that you don't understand what dark matter is or what it's all about. May I ask why you started this thread?

2) You started this thread by asserting that Dark matter is really just the effect of time on our limited perceptions. What does that mean and where did you get that idea from? To demonstrate your mistake please present a logical argument which starts with premises that are not subject to doubt and whose conclusion is your assertion. Please use deductive logic/reasoning to present your argument.

3) Then you wrote For example, the universe is huge. So to our human minds the stars are expanding so slow because it's so far away.

This argument has no real structure to it. You present something you appear to be a premise, i.e. the universe is huge but you don't use it. That's because no matter how large the universe is it makes no difference as to how your reasoning applies to the closest stars. Then you make a conclusion which doesn't follow from the previous reasoning. One important point being that stars are not expanding. Nothing in the universe is expanding other than the universe itself. That means that the only thing that is increasing in size is the distance between galaxies (dismissing the galaxies which are getting closer to each other due to gravitational attraction). Globular clusters don't expand. Galaxies don't expand. Stars don't expand. Planets don't expand and people don't expand.

4) That's the only reason it hasn't 'flown off the merrygoround' yet. But technically it is flying off the edge expanding endlessly.

I don't understand this comment. What is it that you're claiming hasn't flown off the merry-go-round? And what is this edge of? You know that the universe has no edge, right?


For the definition of the term dark matter you should have looked it up someplace like a cosmology text or a general relativity text. If you don't have any physics textbooks you could simply do a search on the term. You'd most likely come up with the definition given in the Wikipedia Encyclopedia. If you search using Google it's the first entry listed. It's at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter
Quote
Dark Matter  is a hypothetical kind of matter that cannot be seen with telescopes but would account for most of the matter in the universe. The existence and properties of dark matter are inferred from its gravitational effects on visible matter, radiation, and the large-scale structure of the universe. Other than neutrinos, a form of hot dark matter, it has not been detected directly, making it one of the greatest mysteries in modern astrophysics.
....
Astrophysicists hypothesized dark matter because of discrepancies between the mass of large astronomical objects determined from their gravitational effects and the mass calculated from the observable matter (stars, gas, and dust) that they can be seen to contain. Dark matter was postulated by Jan Oort in 1932, albeit based upon flawed or inadequate evidence, to account for the orbital velocities of stars in the Milky Way and by Fritz Zwicky in 1933 to account for evidence of "missing mass" in the orbital velocities of galaxies in clusters. Adequate evidence from galaxy rotation curves was discovered by Horace W. Babcock in 1939, but was not attributed to dark matter.
So you see? It was originally defined to explain the structure of the rotation curve of galaxies, the Milky Way in particular.

Dark matter, like all other normal matter, provide an attractive force between galaxies. It therefore cannot account for galaxies moving away from each other. In fact it works to counteract the expansion. The expansion of the universe was triggered by the Big Bang. Its basically the momentum left over by the Big Bang. The expansion of the universe is a function of normal matter and dark matter, which gravitationally act the same, and dark energy which is causing the universe to accelerate at an accelerating rate.
 

Offline Richie46n2

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Re: What dark matter really would be
« Reply #23 on: 13/07/2015 22:38:31 »
I'm saying maybe they got it wrong and dark matter is that force and time is what you are saying is dark matter... And so they are really one and the same... I'm not talking about universes moving away from each other but away from the Big Bang and then out from each center from there.

But we have been thinking about it as this force because we can't comprehend how big a scale we are talking about.... And so it appears to be infinitely slow and irrelevant.
« Last Edit: 13/07/2015 22:40:51 by Richie46n2 »
 

Offline Richie46n2

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Re: What dark matter really would be
« Reply #24 on: 13/07/2015 22:40:11 »
What I am saying is I think we are over thinking it and missing the point and the purpose it serves.
 

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