# The Naked Scientists Forum

### Author Topic: Theory for Gravity, dark matter and negative gravity  (Read 4676 times)

#### LB7

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##### Re: Theory for Gravity, dark matter and repulsive gravity
« Reply #25 on: 19/06/2015 17:30:41 »
Maybe the positions of the systems are like that in 2D:

« Last Edit: 08/11/2015 16:20:01 by LB7 »

#### gazza711

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##### Re: Theory for Gravity, dark matter and negative gravity
« Reply #26 on: 20/06/2015 21:27:00 »
Although I don't quite follow your ideas, basically they appear good to me. You are trying to produce gravitational attraction using electrical forces. this is correct. Gravity is an electrical attraction. Yet it is a very small force compared to the usual electrical forces. Now consider an electron outside the proton and spinning around it. Also consider that the distance between proton and electron is expanding very slowly. Do you now see a current flow? Another atom under the same condition will have the same current flow. Two current flows in the same direction attract and there is gravity. Anyway see if you can produce charts for such events. Negative gravity would be antimatter verses matter. The dark energy is merely the energy of expansion of the atoms since big bang. then you have everything. Think about it!
Im no scientist, but why do we always assume attraction?

#### LB7

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##### Re: Theory for Gravity, dark matter and repulsive gravity
« Reply #27 on: 21/06/2015 21:32:03 »
I give the program in python for 2 positions and the full circle. I tested for 2 "systems" from 0.01 m to 150e9 m. If the particle describes the full circle, the force is lower than gravity. If the particle has 2 positions the force is greater than the gravity. So like I said before the reality must be in middle:
« Last Edit: 08/11/2015 16:20:11 by LB7 »

#### jeffreyH

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• The graviton sucks
##### Re: Theory for Gravity, dark matter and repulsive gravity
« Reply #28 on: 21/06/2015 23:20:15 »
If a field that extends to infinity is rotating then it will have an infinite angular velocity. I can't believe I am actually writing that. It doesn't makes sense. This is a major problem for your theory.

#### PmbPhy

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##### Re: Theory for Gravity, dark matter and repulsive gravity
« Reply #29 on: 22/06/2015 00:13:29 »
If a field that extends to infinity is rotating then it will have an infinite angular velocity. I can't believe I am actually writing that. It doesn't makes sense. This is a major problem for your theory.
That's because fields don't rotate.

#### LB7

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##### Re: Theory for Gravity, dark matter and repulsive gravity
« Reply #30 on: 22/06/2015 07:30:13 »
Like PmbPhy said: the field don't rotate. I thought it had a rotating field if particles rotate, but not. I thought like magnetism with a motor. Particles rotate like I described.
« Last Edit: 22/06/2015 08:08:34 by LB7 »

#### PmbPhy

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##### Re: Theory for Gravity, dark matter and repulsive gravity
« Reply #31 on: 22/06/2015 10:13:34 »
Quote from: LB7
Like PmbPhy said: the field don't rotate. I thought it had a rotating field if particles rotate, but not. I thought like magnetism with a motor. Particles rotate like I described.
It's meaningless to say that a particle rotates because by definition a particle is a point object and a point object has nothing which can be thought of as rotating. Even in the case of non-point particles like hadrons they can't be thought of as rotating because of the quantum mechanical nature of such entities doesn't permit such a description.

#### LB7

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##### Re: Theory for Gravity, dark matter and repulsive gravity
« Reply #32 on: 22/06/2015 10:47:23 »
It's meaningless to say that a particle rotates because by definition a particle is a point object and a point object has nothing which can be thought of as rotating. Even in the case of non-point particles like hadrons they can't be thought of as rotating because of the quantum mechanical nature of such entities doesn't permit such a description.

PmpPhy: A particle is not a charge it is the "system" that I drawn in the first message. And a charge + with a charge - is a dipole, no ? Because my "system" that I called particle is composed of a charge + and a charge -. For the rotating field I don't know if it exist or not maybe a bad analogy with magnetism, in my theory charges rotate.

JeffreyH :
Quote
If a field that extends to infinity is rotating then it will have an infinite angular velocity.
Why, could you explain please ?
« Last Edit: 22/06/2015 10:51:01 by LB7 »

#### PmbPhy

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##### Re: Theory for Gravity, dark matter and repulsive gravity
« Reply #33 on: 22/06/2015 10:56:40 »
Quote from: LB7
PmpPhy: A particle is not a charge ...
Ummm ... who was talking about charge? I certainly wasn't.

Quote from: LB7
...it is the "system" that I drawn in the first message.
It's a VERY bad idea to change the meanings of standard terms in physics. In any case I read the first post and there's nothing in it saying that a particle is any kind of system.

Quote from: LB7
And a charge + with a charge - is a dipole, no ? Because my "system" that I called particle is composed of a charge + and a charge -. For the rotating field I don't know if it exist or not maybe a bad analogy with magnetism, in my theory charges rotate.
Then your theory doesn't correspond to reality unless the charge has a finite size such as a macroscopic pith ball with electrons spread over the surface.

Quote from: LB7
JeffreyH :
Quote
If a field that extends to infinity is rotating then it will have an infinite angular velocity.
Why, could you explain please ?
Because angular momentum is defined as rxg where g is momentum density which is integrated over the field. If the field is too far from the center then its moving faster than the speed of light and it then becomes infinite. You should learn relativistic electrodynamics before attempting to do the things you're doing.

#### LB7

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##### Re: Theory for Gravity, dark matter and repulsive gravity
« Reply #34 on: 22/06/2015 11:14:13 »
Because angular momentum is defined as rxg where g is momentum density which is integrated over the field. If the field is too far from the center then its moving faster than the speed of light and it then becomes infinite. You should learn relativistic electrodynamics before attempting to do the things you're doing.

What is momentum if mass don't exist ? If this theory is correct the laws of motion (Newton) are broken. Mass can be changed.

I don't understand why I can't have the systems like I drawn in rotation. The field of a charge (electron for example) extends to infinite, no ? Here, there are 2 charges in rotation, what's the problem ? Maybe the charges are quarks themselves, I don't know. For calculate I take the radius 0.4e-20m and the charge of 1.6e-19C.

I don't know if the charge of the "system" has a finite size or not. But the radius of the "system" is finite.
« Last Edit: 22/06/2015 12:50:05 by LB7 »

#### PmbPhy

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##### Re: Theory for Gravity, dark matter and repulsive gravity
« Reply #35 on: 22/06/2015 14:38:46 »
Quote from: LB7
What is momentum if mass don't exist ?
What on earth are you talking about? I thought that you said that you were an electrical engineer? Any such engineer knows that an electromagnetic field has both linear and angular momentum in it. You're most likely confusing rest mass with relativistic mass like so many amateurs do.

Quote from: LB7
If this theory is correct the laws of motion (Newton) are broken. Mass can be changed.
Wrong. Newton's laws are far from being broken by any means. And the only time that the mass of an object can change is if it either gains or sheds material or when the relativistic mass of the body increases with speed. That's only noticeable at speeds near the speed of light.

Quote from: LB7
The field of a charge (electron for example) extends to infinite, no ?
That's correct.

Quote from: LB7
Here, there are 2 charges in rotation, what's the problem ?
The problem is that if you're thinking of the field of an extended object as being rigid when in fact it isn't. If there is an electric dipole that is rotating such that the charges are rotating in a plane about the center of the dipole then the field lines distort as it rotates. The field itself never moves though. All that happens is that there are changes in the field which propagate at the speed of light. Some electrical engineer you turned out to be.

Frankly I'd have to say that you're lying about being an electrical engineer. No such engineer is as ignorant about electrodynamics as you are.

#### LB7

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##### Re: Theory for Gravity, dark matter and repulsive gravity
« Reply #36 on: 22/06/2015 15:43:54 »
Frankly I'd have to say that you're lying about being an electrical engineer. No such engineer is as ignorant about electrodynamics as you are.

JeffreyH: how to link the angular velocity of the distance ? Maybe there is a limit. What is the bigger distance we detect gravity in Universe ? With a charge of 1.9e-19C the radius is 0.4e-20 m so the angular velocity is 7.5e+28 rd/s. In this case, what is the max distance ? Have you a formula please ? The size of Universe is something like 4e26 m.
« Last Edit: 22/06/2015 16:44:03 by LB7 »

#### PmbPhy

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##### Re: Theory for Gravity, dark matter and repulsive gravity
« Reply #37 on: 22/06/2015 16:40:59 »
Quote from: LB7
You can say I'm a bad electrical "engineer (In fact, like I said I'm Agrégé, it's better than engineer). But "lying" ? not at all, for me it's an insult,
You can take it any way that you wish but nobody with an electrical engineering degree "or better" has such a poor knowledge of electrodynamics as you do.

Quote from: LB7
...ask to admin I used my university email and my name and I'm on internet.

Quote from: LB7
I think you don't want to ear something else than your physics, ..
MY physics? Are you crazy? All I ever do is post on THE physics, i.e. as understood by the physics community.

Quote from: LB7
I'll read and respond to anything I please. I'm sure not doing it for your benefit, that's for sure. Since you don't understand the physics that I've been explaining to you I'm wasting my time. If I post anything from now on its to correct the mistakes and erroneous assertions and misconceptions that you've been posting so that others won't be confused.

Quote from: LB7
That's a wise decision on your part. It means that you'll be making less mistakes that way.

Quote from: LB7
This has nothing to do with respect. You have chosen to post this in a physics discussion forum. You can't shut people up when they've proven you wrong or question the truth of your claims. I don't know you from a hole in the wall so why should I assume that you're being truthful. I was polite to start with but the more I read your responses the more I realized how little you know about electrodynamics. And I'm not about to let you post misinformation and let members go around believing nonsense just because you don't like your mistakes being pointed out to you or being called a liar when you claim to be something that you don't demonstrate having the knowledge of being.

#### LB7

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##### Re: Theory for Gravity, dark matter and repulsive gravity
« Reply #38 on: 22/06/2015 17:01:55 »
I calculated again and for find the good values I need to work with 1/d not 1/d˛. The electrostatic dipole in rotation create a magnetic field, this field attrack like 1/d not 1/d˛ so maybe all the matter is synchronised with the magnetism field not the electrostatic field. The magnetism field need something in particular in term of rotation, distance, or something else ?

It could be interesting to have the max distance with an angular velocity of 7.75e28 rd/s.

The following code works for any distance, I used the law in 1/d (from electromagnetism not electrostatic forces)

« Last Edit: 08/11/2015 16:20:26 by LB7 »

#### The Naked Scientists Forum

##### Re: Theory for Gravity, dark matter and repulsive gravity
« Reply #38 on: 22/06/2015 17:01:55 »