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Author Topic: Chinese Herbal Medicine  (Read 24433 times)

Offline tweener

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Re: Chinese Herbal Medicine
« Reply #25 on: 28/01/2004 04:56:05 »
I agree with Donnah that they both have their place.  There are many herbal and natural remedies that have (or are currently) undergone rigorous clinical trials to prove their safety and efficacy.  At least in the US, the pharmaceutical industry and the medical profession really play down the role of natural remedies.  I believe there is a lot more acceptance in Europe.

I am a strong supporter of "normal" medicine also.  If you really think about it, the only substantial change in our lives in the past two hundred years is that now we have a very high probability of living to see our children grow up to become adults.  Otherwise, not much has changed.


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Offline Ylide

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Re: Chinese Herbal Medicine
« Reply #26 on: 28/01/2004 05:57:43 »
I'm all for using herbs to treat illnesses that CAN be treated with them.  I'm more concerned with the history some homeopathic "professionals" have with condeming all pharmaceuticals and western medicinal practices while selling treatments that will not work for what is ailing their patient.  

So yeah, treat your glaucoma with pot, treat your insomnia with valerian, treat your depression with St John's Wort, but don't be a dumbass and try to treat your colon cancer with a wheat grass colonic or some such nonsense.



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Offline Jay M. Fredrickson

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Re: Chinese Herbal Medicine
« Reply #27 on: 29/01/2004 09:54:54 »
Hey everyone, I just wanted to say hello briefly and mention that i'm happy to have stumbled across this forum.

I initially took notice to a different thread wherein a member was inquiring about Usana and it's products and their involvement in the network marketing industry. While I am a believer in the products and also involved in the business, im not here to preach. People can inqurie what they will.

I dislike the stereotype brought forth by such people who go about saying this and that and give a bad image to something, network marketing or anything.

Anyhow, I just wanted to say that while I haven't caught up on all the threads yet, this one is very well spoken by all parties. I look forward to continuing to read and possibly contribute with my own thoughts and perspective from time to time. Im not an avid forum attendee but I try to keep up -

Take care everyone -
Jay
 

Offline bezoar

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Re: Chinese Herbal Medicine
« Reply #28 on: 29/01/2004 17:30:00 »
Hi Jay, and welcome.  Hope you do come back.  What gives you the background in supplements?  Are you studying in the field or just your own interests?
 

Offline Jay M. Fredrickson

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Re: Chinese Herbal Medicine
« Reply #29 on: 29/01/2004 17:56:23 »
Hey Bezoar,

My background in supplements as far as study goes is minimal. I completed first year human kinetics but then switched into business & commerce. I have done a lot of research into various company's products though.

I guess they wouldn't be an area of expertise, but one of high interest. I attend the gym regularily and play competitive level sports like volleyball, squash and soccer.

How do you view supplements?
 

Offline bezoar

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Re: Chinese Herbal Medicine
« Reply #30 on: 30/01/2004 02:18:53 »
I'm not sure there's much difference in natural versus synthetic.  I definitely think supplements have a place, and I'm not so sure that the minimum daily requirements are accurate.  Obviously, with the water soluble vitamins, there's not much harm done if you overdose, however, I did read that those who megadose with vitamin C develop a sort of dependence on it.  I'm really confused about the trace minerals.  You have to understand, in nursing school, we got one nutrition course that was very conservative and basic.  I don't think the docs get much more.  I got more nutrition conscious after I had children, in an effort to feed them well.  They are, by the way, extremely healthy kids, but I don't know if that's good nutrition or good genetics.
 

Offline Jay M. Fredrickson

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Re: Chinese Herbal Medicine
« Reply #31 on: 30/01/2004 03:04:09 »
You're very correct in being unsure of the RDA of supplements. They have yet to catch up with modern science and are still based on minimal quantities to stave off such things are scurvy. When's the last time you heard of someone with scurvy?

In 1st world countries where people have the choice, they should be looking to give their bodies optimal levels of nutrition throughout the day. Selling yourself to the lowest bidder (often big box stores where you get 1500 capsules for $8.99) just doesn't make sense to me. A high end product costs a quarter or half days wages at the most?

Anyhow...Supplements are not a magic bullet by any means. They are just that, supplements. Meant to be taken in addition to a well balanced healthy diet and rounded physical fitness.
 

Offline Ylide

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Re: Chinese Herbal Medicine
« Reply #32 on: 30/01/2004 04:11:28 »
You pretty much summed up how I feel about supplementation, Jay.

Supplements have worked great for me in the times I've worked to develop better overall health.  (protein supplements for when I'm weight training, etc)  I've never had much luck with them for actually treating a disorder, and I don't think they're really meant for that.

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Offline Jay M. Fredrickson

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Re: Chinese Herbal Medicine
« Reply #33 on: 30/01/2004 05:42:43 »
I take daily cellular nutrition (vitamins/minerals) not to treat anything but rather give my body the best platform to prevent diseases. I take a high priced product because I see a difference in potency and bioavailability of products.

There is an obvious major shift from sickness' like polio to degenerative diseases like hypertension, cancer etc. Many of these degenerative diseases are believed to be preventable and im just doing what I can to have the best fighting chance.

I also take a soy-based protein and nutrition shake mix for a morning meal replacement...mm mmmm

haha...
 

Offline chris

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Re: Chinese Herbal Medicine
« Reply #34 on: 30/01/2004 12:52:22 »
quote:
Originally posted by Jay M. Fredrickson

You're very correct in being unsure of the RDA of supplements. They have yet to catch up with modern science and are still based on minimal quantities to stave off such things are scurvy. When's the last time you heard of someone with scurvy?



You'd be surprised. Although not common it does happen. I have seen a patient with scurvy which responded promptly to a few oranges a day. Most at risk are the elderly who survive on tea and toast...

Chris


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Offline bezoar

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Re: Chinese Herbal Medicine
« Reply #35 on: 30/01/2004 14:40:00 »
Not in our country.  In the land of the obese, we don't live on tea and toast.

But Jay, I think the shift in disease patterns, with more degenerative diseases, is just because we are living longer.
 

Offline Jay M. Fredrickson

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Re: Chinese Herbal Medicine
« Reply #36 on: 30/01/2004 18:56:29 »
Thats funny that you say that...a good friend of mine actually got a mild case of scurvy while he was in college...very amusing. Good guy but had the worst diet imaginable. You can imagine the surprise everyone had.

With respect to people living longer, I think there may be some discussion on that. In generations before, a major benefactor to studies done on life expectancy was the high infancy mortality rate. With this nearly wiped out, or severely lower than earlier, the life expectancy has seemed to increased but this one factor may have just increased the average when looking at numbers.

I hope that all made sense. I just rolled out of bed and the brain isn't functioning at 100% yet..

Jay

 

Offline bezoar

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Re: Chinese Herbal Medicine
« Reply #37 on: 30/01/2004 20:40:16 »
Were infant deaths included in figures of life expectancy?  That would screw up the statistics big time.
 

Offline Jay M. Fredrickson

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Re: Chinese Herbal Medicine
« Reply #38 on: 30/01/2004 22:27:55 »
As far as I was told they were...I may have been misinformed.

Kind of changes the perspective though hey? When you really look around, more people are dying younger due to heart conditions and cancer when they are in their 40's 50's and 60's than before. Im pretty sure nearly everyone knows someone personally who was a victim to this.
 

Offline bezoar

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Re: Chinese Herbal Medicine
« Reply #39 on: 31/01/2004 14:38:36 »
I haven't seen the stats.  Are they really dying younger from cancer and heart disease?  Even with all the new treatments and medications?  I find that hard to believe.
 

Offline Ylide

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Re: Chinese Herbal Medicine
« Reply #40 on: 31/01/2004 18:09:02 »
My girlfriend's Master's Degree is in sociology, so she's studied a crapload of social statistics.  I asked her about infant mortality counting towards average life expectancy, and she says it sure does.  Just so you know.  



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Offline Jay M. Fredrickson

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Re: Chinese Herbal Medicine
« Reply #41 on: 31/01/2004 19:59:31 »
Thanks Cannabinoid for the info -

Im not sure if people are dying younger on a whole from things like cancer, but it seems that on just a personal basis, hearing that a friends dad died from a heart attack, or that more and more people are getting cancer seems to be prevalent.

The fact that lifestyle choices can be a huge factor in degenerative diseases is worrying as the way society is moving >
newbielink:http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/parenting/01/05/obese.teens.ap/index.html [nonactive]
and
newbielink:http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/parenting/01/05/fast.food.ap/index.html [nonactive]
 

Offline Ylide

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Re: Chinese Herbal Medicine
« Reply #42 on: 31/01/2004 23:03:13 »
My big worry is accumulative toxicological effects.  Things like pesticides, heavy metals, and organic solvents are present, albeit in extremely low levels, in most of our food and water supply.  The amounts we are exposed to present no acute effects, but research is showing that long term low-level exposure is indeed harmful.  Metals accumulate in the nervous system, solvents cause long term liver damage, and pesticides can affect just about every major system in the body.  

The moral of the story, use a water filter and buy organic when possible.

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Offline Jay M. Fredrickson

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Re: Chinese Herbal Medicine
« Reply #43 on: 31/01/2004 23:12:31 »
I can definitely relate.

What's going on into our food is scary at the least of times. I'm not 100% convinced that buying organic is the way to go either. Unless grown in a green-houses with hepa-filtered air systems, pollutants and other toxins still effect what is being grown in fields right? Just because the farmer does physically go and spread pesticides, it doesn't mean that toxins aren't going into the foods.

Anyhow, just my view. Here's an interesting little article for those interested > newbielink:http://www.cgfi.org/materials/articles/2000/feb_11_00.htm [nonactive]

 

Offline Ylide

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Re: Chinese Herbal Medicine
« Reply #44 on: 01/02/2004 08:45:10 »
I'm not worried about a little residual pesticide from the farm down the road or chemical fallout from the neaby city.  I rinse my veggies off before I use them.  As long as pesticides aren't being sprayed on in huge concentrations, I'm relatively sure I can get all of the crap off before I eat it.

I'm more concerned with the state of meat products.  Between mad cow disease, growth hormones, and excess use of antibiotics, I'm getting more and more careful about eating meat and dairy products.  (but they taste so GOOD I can't make myself go veg)



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Offline tweener

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Re: Chinese Herbal Medicine
« Reply #45 on: 02/02/2004 03:31:08 »
Actually, I'm not very impressed with the organic rules at all.  Some of the "organic" pesticides and herbicides that are allowed (because they are natural) are much more toxic than the commercial chemical that would do the same job in a lower concentration.  Good examples of this are lime-sulpher and Bordeaux mixture.  They are both extremely toxic, very stable in the environment, accumulate in tissues of fish and birds, and are allowed under the rules of most "organic" certification.  

Other factors to consider are cost and regulation.  The commercial pesticides are expensive, and farmers are required to undergo some training to be able to buy them (at least in the USA).  When they apply them, they are subject to audit to make sure they are using them within their permit and the label directions, and they don't use any more than they have to because they are expensive.  The "organic" stuff is usually not regulated, so anyone can buy it.  It is usually cheaper, so they will buy more.  And, it is not as effective, so they will use more.  So, keep washing your vegatables, even the organic ones.

Another big factor in making you want to wash vegatables is biological contamination, like salmonella or e-coli.  This makes for more sickness than pesticide posioning, though the cumulative risk is more of a long term problem.


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John
 

Offline Ylide

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Re: Chinese Herbal Medicine
« Reply #46 on: 02/02/2004 15:03:33 »
I think everyone who goes to college should be required to take a semester of microbiology.  You'll never eat a fruit or vegetable again without scrubbing the hell out of it.  People just have no idea how ubiquitous microorganisms really are.





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Offline Donnah

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Re: Chinese Herbal Medicine
« Reply #47 on: 04/02/2004 19:13:51 »
I still go organic.  I prefer to grow my own because that's the only way you really know how organic it is.  I suspect that a little residual pesticide might be a good thing.  Our bodies will encounter that crap in our food supply sooner or later (unless you never eat in restaurants) and maybe our immune system will protect us better if it is aware of that particular toxin.  What does the scientific community have to say about this theory?
« Last Edit: 05/02/2004 01:08:44 by Donnah »
 

Offline tweener

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Re: Chinese Herbal Medicine
« Reply #48 on: 04/02/2004 21:36:58 »
I forgot to mention that I still buy organic if possible without bankrupting myself.  Overall, I think it is worthwhile and the practice should be supported.  Even if the rules need to be better understood by the public and maybe changed.


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Offline Ylide

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Re: Chinese Herbal Medicine
« Reply #49 on: 05/02/2004 19:45:58 »
Chemical toxins aren't generally affected by the immune system.  That's why things like botulism and E. coli 0157:H7 are so bad...you can kill the organisms but the toxins they excrete have already gotten into your system and started doing damage.  Hence, you can't readily build up an immunity.  There are other mechanisms for developing a tolerance to chemicals, but I don't know what they are.

The harmfulness of the pesticides depends on the composition.  Carcinogenic ones are not good in any dose, especially long term.

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Re: Chinese Herbal Medicine
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