# The Naked Scientists Forum

### Author Topic: Is e=mc^2 the same as F=ma^2 ?  (Read 9182 times)

#### alancalverd

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##### Re: Is e=mc^2 the same as F=ma^2 ?
« Reply #25 on: 13/09/2015 12:55:40 »
Yes, potential energy. But it has the same dimensions as kinetic energy or any other energy, includng relativistic mass-energy. If you lift a mass m through height h in a gravitational field characterised by acceleration g, the work you do is mgh. If you then drop it, it will hit the ground with velocity v where mgh = ½mv2.

Likewise chemical energy. You can measure the energy of combustion of hydrogen in oxygen, then mix them in a rocket engine and convert it to kiinetic energy.

Or you can convert the kinetic energy of your car into chemical energy (using regenerative braking in an electric car) or heat (using brakes).

And there's no "misuse" with photons. The annihilation of an electron and a positron produces two photons of 511 keV - exactly the mass-energy  equivalent of an electron or positron.

#### mathew_orman

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##### Re: Is e=mc^2 the same as F=ma^2 ?
« Reply #26 on: 15/09/2015 08:42:40 »
Energy is an abstract  concept and not an entity of matter...

#### PmbPhy

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##### Re: Is e=mc^2 the same as F=ma^2 ?
« Reply #27 on: 15/09/2015 08:44:15 »
Energy is an abstract  concept and not an entity of matter...
So what? Who said otherwise that you need to correct someone?

#### Thebox

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##### Re: Is e=mc^2 the same as F=ma^2 ?
« Reply #28 on: 15/09/2015 09:02:51 »
Energy is an abstract  concept and not an entity of matter...

Well, you said that better than I was trying to explain.    I think the calculation fails of the first value E=m, energy does not have to be of matter. So why does energy = matter ?

#### Thebox

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##### Re: Is e=mc^2 the same as F=ma^2 ?
« Reply #29 on: 21/09/2015 19:34:05 »
E=∑m/2

m=[-=+]

#### PmbPhy

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##### Re: Is e=mc^2 the same as F=ma^2 ?
« Reply #30 on: 21/09/2015 23:36:33 »
Energy is an abstract  concept and not an entity of matter...

Well, you said that better than I was trying to explain.    I think the calculation fails of the first value E=m, energy does not have to be of matter. So why does energy = matter ?
First read my webpage on what energy is: http://home.comcast.net/~peter.m.brown/mech/what_is_energy.htm

I'll look for an article I have in mind that will help you understand it better or I can just explain it to you myself. Which do you prefer?

#### Thebox

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##### Re: Is e=mc^2 the same as F=ma^2 ?
« Reply #31 on: 21/09/2015 23:53:32 »

I'll look for an article I have in mind that will help you understand it better or I can just explain it to you myself. Which do you prefer?

Thank you for the link Pete, it was an interesting read. I would prefer you to explain energy to me in your own words. I understand energy is the generalised term of set for several subsets.
My definition would be energy is a product of process?

#### alancalverd

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##### Re: Is e=mc^2 the same as F=ma^2 ?
« Reply #32 on: 22/09/2015 19:58:08 »
Energy is a scalar that is conserved. Nothing to "understand", but you can expect in all physical processes that the sum of terms such as mv^2/2, mgh, msdT, etc., is constant.

#### Thebox

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##### Re: Is e=mc^2 the same as F=ma^2 ?
« Reply #33 on: 22/09/2015 20:47:47 »
Energy is a scalar that is conserved. Nothing to "understand", but you can expect in all physical processes that the sum of terms such as mv^2/2, mgh, msdT, etc., is constant.

Energy is a scalar but does energy not create action which then creates motion ?

#### alancalverd

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##### Re: Is e=mc^2 the same as F=ma^2 ?
« Reply #34 on: 23/09/2015 11:52:37 »
The idea of  "creating" motion is not helpful. Motion is created by the action of a force on a mass. Two parameters are always conserved: energy (a scalar) and momentum (a vector). Using these conservation laws we can predict the outcome of any such interaction (at least in principle - it becomes very complicated wen several bodies interact).

#### Thebox

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##### Re: Is e=mc^2 the same as F=ma^2 ?
« Reply #35 on: 25/09/2015 23:38:19 »
Motion is created by the action of a force on a mass.

What if motion is being denoted by the masses polarity output v another masses polarity output if both masses where of the same polarity?

#### alancalverd

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##### Re: Is e=mc^2 the same as F=ma^2 ?
« Reply #36 on: 26/09/2015 00:41:39 »
Your question is meaningless. Mass does not have polarity, and polarity is not output. Motion is denoted by change of position.
« Last Edit: 26/09/2015 00:46:19 by alancalverd »

#### Thebox

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##### Re: Is e=mc^2 the same as F=ma^2 ?
« Reply #37 on: 27/09/2015 17:24:41 »
Your question is meaningless. Mass does not have polarity, and polarity is not output. Motion is denoted by change of position.

You say mass does not have polarity, if this is not the case then how come mass is attracted to mass?  do opposite polarities not attract equally and proportionately.

https://theoristexplains.wordpress.com/2015/09/26/can-it-be-this-simple/

If we take two atoms and placed them side by side touching in space, and add energy to one of the atoms, does this atom not become polaritiesed by the energy and charge output being greater than the other atom?

would the other atom not gain motion by the simplicity of the same polarity pushing it away from each other?

m+E=<m?

air + energy = less mass of air

m=∑+&-

m1=-&+

m2=-&+

m1 is equally and proportional to m2

what is mass?  mas is energy and all that of a substance that is negative and positive. Experimental results show us that positives are attracting to negatives.

m1+E=m1 not being  proportional to m2 .

what is mass?  mass is energy and all that of a substance that is negative and positive. Experimental results show us that positives are attracted to negatives.

« Last Edit: 27/09/2015 17:47:30 by Thebox »

#### alancalverd

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##### Re: Is e=mc^2 the same as F=ma^2 ?
« Reply #38 on: 27/09/2015 17:40:53 »

You say mass does not have polarity, if this is not the case then how come mass is attracted to mass?  do opposite polarities not attract equally and proportionately.

Think about this. Suppose you have three masses, say the sun and two planets. If you assign + to  the sun and - to earth, what is the polarity of mars? Or the moons of either planet? All masses attract each other.

Quote
If we take two atoms and placed them side by side touching in space, and add energy to one of the atoms, does this atom not become polaritiesed by the energy and charge output being greater than the other atom?

no. energy does not induce or confer polarity.

Quote
air + energy = less mass of air

not in this universe.

#### Thebox

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##### Re: Is e=mc^2 the same as F=ma^2 ?
« Reply #39 on: 27/09/2015 17:50:52 »

You say mass does not have polarity, if this is not the case then how come mass is attracted to mass?  do opposite polarities not attract equally and proportionately.

Think about this. Suppose you have three masses, say the sun and two planets. If you assign + to  the sun and - to earth, what is the polarity of mars? Or the moons of either planet? All masses attract each other.

Quote
If we take two atoms and placed them side by side touching in space, and add energy to one of the atoms, does this atom not become polaritiesed by the energy and charge output being greater than the other atom?

no. energy does not induce or confer polarity.

Quote
air + energy = less mass of air

not in this universe.

The earth has two masses, the core a more positive mass that is repelled by the suns more positive mass, then the ground which is more of a negative mass than a positive.

the ground is attracted to the core and the sun, the moon is attracted to the core but the moons core keeps the moon in orbit.

negative mass and positive mass.

air positive mass and negative mass,

water the same.

Consider expansion a more negative mass entropy galaxy will be attracted to a more positive mass entropy galaxy. the laws of attraction.

« Last Edit: 27/09/2015 17:54:30 by Thebox »

#### alancalverd

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##### Re: Is e=mc^2 the same as F=ma^2 ?
« Reply #40 on: 27/09/2015 17:57:31 »
Poppycock. Consider three billiard balls. There is a mutual gravitational attraction between all three and they are all made of the same material right through. What determines the polarity of the red, black and white balls?

Or a neutron star. Zillions of identical uncharged particles all held together by....er....

#### Thebox

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##### Re: Is e=mc^2 the same as F=ma^2 ?
« Reply #41 on: 27/09/2015 18:05:31 »
Poppycock. Consider three billiard balls. There is a mutual gravitational attraction between all three and they are all made of the same material right through. What determines the polarity of the red, black and white balls?

Or a neutron star. Zillions of identical uncharged particles all held together by....er....

All 3 snooker balls are at a perfect equilibrium, they absorb and release energy at the same rate, the ground absorbs the energy output of the balls, the balls will reach a room temperature, if the temperature is increased and increased the balls will eventually fail to release more energy than gain and eventually have quantum state failure.

The polarity of the balls is neutral, an equilibrium, negative cancelling positive out ,by an equal balance.

And when talking negative and positive polarity I do not mean like a battery or a magnetic, but something different , something new maybe.

I get, gravity is the negative mass of matter,an unobservable negative flow attracted to the positive mass of matter.

My reason is because + repels + so + can not attract + but can attract -.

Yes I am saying that mass is the set and - and + are the subsets.

added- imagine the core is subset (a)+

imagine the ground subset (b)-&(a)
imagine the ocean subset (a)&(b)
imagine ice subset (b)
imagine air subset (a)&(b)

the ice will float because the ice is attracted to the core and the ground but the water pushes back and the air pulls it.

« Last Edit: 27/09/2015 18:35:48 by Thebox »

#### alancalverd

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##### Re: Is e=mc^2 the same as F=ma^2 ?
« Reply #42 on: 27/09/2015 18:53:33 »
There is a gravitational attraction between all three billiard balls. Nothing to do with temperature .

Why do you try to make everything more complicated than it is?

#### Thebox

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##### Re: Is e=mc^2 the same as F=ma^2 ?
« Reply #43 on: 27/09/2015 23:21:45 »

Why do you try to make everything more complicated than it is?

Not more complicated, more advanced in the knowledge. To just say mass does not say what mass is. What is mass? mass is the negative and positive of matter?

p.s i think it is more simpler personally.

#### alancalverd

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##### Re: Is e=mc^2 the same as F=ma^2 ?
« Reply #44 on: 28/09/2015 11:19:33 »
Mass is what gives a body its gravitational field. Charge is what gives a body its electrostatic field.

As far as we know there is only one type of mass, but two types of charge. It also turns out that inertial mass and gravitational mass are identical to a very high degree of confidence.

The force between masses m1 and m2 is proportional to the product m1m2 and is always positive. The force between charges is proportional to -q1q2 and is therefore positive (attractive) or negative (repulsive) depending on the sign of each q.

Now what could be simpler than that?

#### Thebox

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##### Re: Is e=mc^2 the same as F=ma^2 ?
« Reply #45 on: 28/09/2015 14:39:38 »
Mass is what gives a body its gravitational field. Charge is what gives a body its electrostatic field.

As far as we know there is only one type of mass, but two types of charge. It also turns out that inertial mass and gravitational mass are identical to a very high degree of confidence.

The force between masses m1 and m2 is proportional to the product m1m2 and is always positive. The force between charges is proportional to -q1q2 and is therefore positive (attractive) or negative (repulsive) depending on the sign of each q.

Now what could be simpler than that?

edit - The forces between masses m1 and m2 is proportional to the product m1m2 and is always positive and negative. The forces between masses  is proportional to -q1q2 and is therefore positive (attractive) or negative (repulsive) depending on the entropy proportion of q1q2 of a mass.

Consider a ''lifter'' Alan, we add  electricity creating a positive electrical field, this field repels off the earth's core positive field that denotes lift.

We already know that a positive can not attract a positive but can only attract a negative, mass is the negative of an object .  positive is the energy of the object.

« Last Edit: 28/09/2015 15:08:58 by Thebox »

#### alancalverd

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##### Re: Is e=mc^2 the same as F=ma^2 ?
« Reply #46 on: 28/09/2015 15:33:27 »

#### Thebox

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##### Re: Is e=mc^2 the same as F=ma^2 ?
« Reply #47 on: 28/09/2015 15:43:35 »

What you think is buoyancy is not buoyancy.   My example I will give is air, when air has less energy it ''sinks'', when air has more energy it rises. More energy meaning more of a positive and repels itself of the earth's positive.
I would also add the lifter, creating a field equal and opposing to the earth's positive field.
I would also add  that matter only contains positive and negative and this can be the only mechanism of matter that has any repulsive or attractive qualities.
I can add ice, but I am still a bit uncertain of how to word the explanation.
I would also add metal expansion, polarised atoms repelling each other causing expansion,

Is this what you mean?  I could present it in full detail with all the ins and outs, would take me  a while to write.

It explains almost everything including the expanding universe ,

Andromeda has more negative mass than the milkyway, consider the effect of force when both galaxies are in passive space.

And the main thing, all matter has negative mass that is attracted to positive mass.

The best example is H²O

3 stages

liquid - equilibrium of mass

gaseous-greater positive mass

ice-greater negative mass

at this stage you are thinking ice floats and if was a negative mass would be pulled to the ocean floor towards the positive mass core, but when you consider air is more of a positive mass than water and the negative mass ice is attracted to the positive mass air, it makes sense why it floats.

Added thought, this may sound a bit wacked out, but if the sun was in a specific position closer to us , we could walk on water.

« Last Edit: 28/09/2015 16:46:48 by Thebox »

#### alancalverd

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##### Re: Is e=mc^2 the same as F=ma^2 ?
« Reply #48 on: 28/09/2015 16:46:18 »
Utter poppycock throughout.

Please learn some basic physics, such as the meaning of "density" and Archimedes Principle before I waste any more time with you.

#### Thebox

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##### Re: Is e=mc^2 the same as F=ma^2 ?
« Reply #49 on: 28/09/2015 16:56:22 »
Utter poppycock throughout.

Please learn some basic physics, such as the meaning of "density" and Archimedes Principle before I waste any more time with you.

It is not poppy cock, consider matter, made of atoms, the only mechanism of matter that has any capabilities of attraction or repulsion is negative and positive properties. There is no other mechanism of matter leading to only one conclusion.
I have explained it well, it may seem far fetched and futuristic sci-fi, but this is what advancing on something means, to strive forward to a future of more knowledge.  New does not mean poppy cock.

To just say mass is not saying what mass is, negative mass and positive mass explains very well what mass is.  It completes gravity.
Science can not detect a gravity wave because it is negative.

We know negative is attracted to positive and we also know positive repel positives, so why deny basic physics that we know already exists?

P.s I understand density, xyz^-xyz=0 if you remember.  I do not have to be a scientist to understand compressed molecules and decompressed molecules.

I.e an apple is not as dense of an equal shaped piece of metal.

If I can explain why present gravity theory is wrong and show an example of why it is wrong would you take me serious then?

« Last Edit: 28/09/2015 17:02:55 by Thebox »

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##### Re: Is e=mc^2 the same as F=ma^2 ?
« Reply #49 on: 28/09/2015 16:56:22 »