# The Naked Scientists Forum

### Author Topic: space-time does not exist.  (Read 1387 times)

#### Thebox

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##### space-time does not exist.
« on: 15/09/2015 09:09:26 »
We use an  atomic clock to record the time of a car travelling around a race track, you are not measuring time with the timing device, you are recording an increment of your own time by using timing of the device to synchronise your own time, that is why there is no true time dilation.  The event of observing the car is not relative to your time, your time is dependent to solely you, your ''time dilation'' is dependent to you.
Between you and the car is no time, your time moves with you at a constant rate set by the synchronisation of gravity influence.  The cars time moves with the car at its set rate independent of your time.

XYZ and you are the forth dimension as the observer at point 0.  Time is not a dimension of space, time is  dimensionless and dependent to all observers independent of each other.  A random variable for all.

Pete asked me a while ago what is time, how would I define it,

Time is an arbitrary creation by mankind to synchronise their everyday activities,

space-time=0

p.s I have decided that I am not mentally ill in any way, I am just correct on everything I have ever thought about and people fail to understand or are not smart enough to understand very simple concepts.
I may not have all the details for any of my ideas, all the niggly details, but I do have generalisations of all my ideas based on evidence, your evidence, your science.

« Last Edit: 15/09/2015 09:37:43 by Thebox »

#### ProjectSailor

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##### Re: space-time does not exist.
« Reply #1 on: 15/09/2015 10:57:30 »
If time is independant to observers.. experiments and durations are not repeatable and hence all laws derived from said experiments and proofs are false and copied from the first measurement.

Three options exist for time
1. it is constant and immutable (this disproves time dilation)
2. It is not constant and changes independantly (this shows non repeatable experiments)
3. It is not constant and changes dependantly (this is the most practical approach since it allows two people to perform the same experiment and get the same results)

Its odd to say that observers can experience time independantly from each other since this is almost proven to not be the case. Saying the condition of the observer is a factor to how time is measured is probably the right way forward.

#### PmbPhy

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##### Re: space-time does not exist.
« Reply #2 on: 15/09/2015 11:02:45 »
Quote from: Thebox
We use an  atomic clock to record the time of a car travelling around a race track, you are not measuring time with the timing device, you are recording an increment of your own time by using timing of the device to synchronise your own time, that is why there is no true time dilation.
That statement makes no sense.

Quote from: Thebox
The event of observing the car is not relative to your time, your time is dependent to solely you, your ''time dilation'' is dependent to you.
Wrong.

Quote from: Thebox
XYZ and you are the forth dimension as the observer at point 0.  Time is not a dimension of space, time is  dimensionless and dependent to all observers independent of each other.  A random variable for all.
Wrong. Time is a one of the dimensions in spacetime. If you think that's wrong then you simply don't understand it.

Quote from: Thebox
Time is an arbitrary creation by mankind to synchronise their everyday activities,
Wrong.  Time is the phenomena which corresponds to changes in the state of the universe. I.e. time is what allows things to change. It has nothing to do with humans. Humans have only devised methods of measuring it.

Quote from: Thebox
p.s I have decided that I am not mentally ill in any way, I am just correct on everything I have ever thought about and people fail to understand or are not smart enough to understand very simple concepts.
That's sheer arrogance. I thought you had a grasp on reality but I see now that's not true. Therefore I'm going back to ignoring you.

#### Thebox

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##### Re: space-time does not exist.
« Reply #3 on: 15/09/2015 20:58:46 »

That's sheer arrogance. I thought you had a grasp on reality but I see now that's not true. Therefore I'm going back to ignoring you.

There was a lot of wrongs there Pete, you explain present information, I am saying this is wrong, that is the whole point of the thread Pete, so wrong and quoting back present information is not even a discussion, so without using present information Pete please state why it is wrong?

Time is dependent to each individual observer and time of each observers time is different to each others time.

The atomic clock on the ground is dependent to its own time, the atomic clock in the air is dependent to its own time, both times are independent having no effect on each other.

I.e you are flying around the world you age less than an observer on the ground. Both times dependent but independent of each other

start with this Pete has shown in the Keating experiment. Evidence 1- each atomic clock is independent to other atomic clocks and dependent to its own measurement.
The point is you are not measuring time with either timing device, you are recording an increment of your own time by using timing of the device to synchronise your own time, that is why there is no true time dilation. real time, space-time does not exist.

''time dilation'' is a synchronisation offset of the Caesium atom to the gravity mechanism. If you destroyed either atomic clock, the act of destroying and stopping the clocks completely will have no adverse effect on time, this I can assure you although I would not want to be in the vicinity of the atomic blast or else that would certainly destroy my ''time''.
Do you really think that if the beats of a caesium atom stopped completely that time would stand still?

stop thinking abstract.

« Last Edit: 17/09/2015 13:02:55 by Thebox »

#### octavian_balaci

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##### Re: space-time does not exist.
« Reply #4 on: 29/09/2015 18:10:52 »
to PmbPhy
I think that the arrogant one is you more than him. You can go back ignoring whatever.

Quote
Time is an arbitrary creation by mankind to synchronise their everyday activities,
Yes indeed and also time is used to represent and quantify the manifestation of causality in the physical world.

#### GoC

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##### Re: space-time does not exist.
« Reply #5 on: 29/09/2015 22:36:08 »
Quote from: Posted by: Thebox
« on: 15/09/2015 20:58:46
Time is dependent to each individual observer and time of each observers time is different to each others time.

I read somewhere that atomic clocks tick at the same rate at sea level. But which are you discussing the biological sense of time in people how they experience time or the clock tick rate. You were not clear by mixing in individuals. The young and the old sense time at a different rate (brain reaction time) while space and on Earth experience different tick rate of the clock.

Quote
The atomic clock on the ground is dependent to its own time, the atomic clock in the air is dependent to its own time, both times are independent having no effect on each other.

And yet when you bring them back together do they not tick again at the same rate? Tick rate by position? And how do they know to tick at the same rate?

Quote
you are flying around the world you age less than an observer on the ground. Both times dependent but independent of each other
Wouldn't that depend on direction the plane was going? West to east wouldn't you age faster than going east to west?

Quote
start with this Pete has shown in the Keating experiment. Evidence 1- each atomic clock is independent to other atomic clocks and dependent to its own measurement.
The point is you are not measuring time with either timing device, you are recording an increment of your own time by using timing of the device to synchronise your own time, that is why there is no true time dilation. real time, space-time does not exist.

How do you synchronize with something that you claim does not exist?

Quote
''time dilation'' is a synchronisation offset of the Caesium atom to the gravity mechanism. If you destroyed either atomic clock, the act of destroying and stopping the clocks completely will have no adverse effect on time, this I can assure you although I would not want to be in the vicinity of the atomic blast or else that would certainly destroy my ''time''.

While you can destroy the ordered mechanism that tracks the period of the cesium clock would anyone suggest when you quit counting the periods that the stopping of the counting would stop time? How would you get cesium to become an atomic blast?

Quote
Do you really think that if the beats of a caesium atom stopped completely that time would stand still?

Yes

#### Colin2B

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##### Re: space-time does not exist.
« Reply #6 on: 29/09/2015 23:32:34 »
Quote
Do you really think that if the beats of a caesium atom stopped completely that time would stand still?

Yes
I agree. It seems pretty obvious, although I think the tense is wrong "has already stood still" is more accurate. Although whether tense or sequence would still have any meaning is debatable.
The problem is how would any of us know!

#### Thebox

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##### Re: space-time does not exist.
« Reply #7 on: 30/09/2015 00:19:13 »
I do not think any of you are clear of what time  is, space can only contain virtual time, there is no real time in space , time in space does not ''move''.
The only time that exists is biological time and our very own biological clock count down or that of matter decay.
All that is of materialistic values has a finite increment existence allowed in space. Only space has an infinite existence,

#### PmbPhy

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##### Re: space-time does not exist.
« Reply #8 on: 30/09/2015 15:51:26 »
Quote
Do you really think that if the beats of a caesium atom stopped completely that time would stand still?

Yes
I agree. It seems pretty obvious, although I think the tense is wrong "has already stood still" is more accurate. Although whether tense or sequence would still have any meaning is debatable.
The problem is how would any of us know!
Of course that's quite wrong. For time to stop all motion, including all atomic clocks in the frame of reference in question, have to stop. One particular atomic clock stopping simply means that the clock is broken.

#### Colin2B

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##### Re: space-time does not exist.
« Reply #9 on: 30/09/2015 16:37:49 »
Of course that's quite wrong. For time to stop all motion, including all atomic clocks in the frame of reference in question, have to stop. One particular atomic clock stopping simply means that the clock is broken.
I was responding to the statement "if the beats of a caesium atom stopped" rather than the atomic clock stopping. I interpreted this as all atoms ceasing to vibrate, emit etc.
I suppose one other explanation would be that the atom has been taken down to 0K.
But you are right, I didn't take time to think through all the implications.

#### ProjectSailor

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##### Re: space-time does not exist.
« Reply #10 on: 30/09/2015 16:55:46 »
I do not think any of you are clear of what time  is, space can only contain virtual time, there is no real time in space , time in space does not ''move''.
The only time that exists is biological time and our very own biological clock count down or that of matter decay.
All that is of materialistic values has a finite increment existence allowed in space. Only space has an infinite existence,

So you are saying if there is nothing then the nothing doesnt experience time? well obviously.. what is the point of say 0kg at 0m/s with 0J experiences time.. it has nothing to measure time in or for..

But time is not linked biologically, chemically, atomically, mechanically.. it just is.. and it always goes forwards.. to home time! bah but theres always work the next day! maybe I should become nothing and enjoy the timelessness..

#### GoC

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##### Re: space-time does not exist.
« Reply #11 on: 30/09/2015 19:30:47 »
I do not think any of you are clear of what time  is, space can only contain virtual time, there is no real time in space , time in space does not ''move''.
The only time that exists is biological time and our very own biological clock count down or that of matter decay.
All that is of materialistic values has a finite increment existence allowed in space. Only space has an infinite existence,

So you are saying if there is nothing then the nothing doesnt experience time? well obviously.. what is the point of say 0kg at 0m/s with 0J experiences time.. it has nothing to measure time in or for..

But time is not linked biologically, chemically, atomically, mechanically.. it just is.. and it always goes forwards.. to home time! bah but theres always work the next day! maybe I should become nothing and enjoy the timelessness..

I suspect time is linked by reaction in which we are all biological clocks. Consider an electron period being the energy of motion. We are traveling towards the speed of light. As we approach the speed of light the periods of the electron slow (clock tick rate). While going as close to the speed of light as possible all energy is removed so the electron almost stops. What happens to all of your biological processes. What we consider as time would almost stop. We would not recognize the difference between that time or our time now.

The question appeared to me as if the cesium atom stopped completely which in turn stopped the electron. At the speed of light if possible the electron would stop and there would be no energy for electron motion which is really what we call time. So my answer as explained is still...    yes.

#### Thebox

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##### Re: space-time does not exist.
« Reply #12 on: 30/09/2015 21:59:35 »

So you are saying if there is nothing then the nothing doesnt experience time? well obviously.. what is the point of say 0kg at 0m/s with 0J experiences time.. it has nothing to measure time in or for..

But time is not linked biologically, chemically, atomically, mechanically.. it just is.. and it always goes forwards.. to home time! bah but theres always work the next day! maybe I should become nothing and enjoy the timelessness..

I am saying exactly that, space itself experiences no time, all time is quantum based and position based dependent to gravitational influence.
Time is not infinite, it is finite for all matter.

#### The Naked Scientists Forum

##### Re: space-time does not exist.
« Reply #12 on: 30/09/2015 21:59:35 »