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Author Topic: Is matter a distortion of space/time?  (Read 3349 times)

Offline thedoc

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Is matter a distortion of space/time?
« on: 17/09/2015 12:50:01 »
John Lindop asked the Naked Scientists:
   
There  is  constant  reference  to  matter  distorting  space / time, the  words  are  correct  but  in  the  wrong  order  as  Schrodinger, Gifford  and  the ancient  Greek  philosophers  et  al    all  note  that  matter  IS a  distortion  of space / time  ??
What do you think?
« Last Edit: 17/09/2015 12:50:01 by _system »


 

Offline Thebox

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Re: Is matter a distortion of space/time?
« Reply #1 on: 20/09/2015 00:07:03 »
John Lindop asked the Naked Scientists:
   
There  is  constant  reference  to  matter  distorting  space / time, the  words  are  correct  but  in  the  wrong  order  as  Schrodinger, Gifford  and  the ancient  Greek  philosophers  et  al    all  note  that  matter  IS a  distortion  of space / time  ??
What do you think?

Pull or twist out of shape what physical presence exactly?   For something to distort it would need to have a physical presence, so neither matter distorting space-time or matter is a distortion of space-time is even applicable when space-time is virtual arbitrary time of space and space-time does not exist in the form of a physical body.





 


 

Offline dlorde

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Re: Is matter a distortion of space/time?
« Reply #2 on: 20/09/2015 11:50:47 »
According to the Standard Model of particle physics, particles are excitations of their corresponding quantum fields, which permeate all space. But bear in mind that this is a a model - an astonishingly accurate model, in terms of what it predicts we'll observe - but it doesn't necessarily tell us what reality actually is; it tells us that it behaves as if it consists of these fields and their excitations.
 

Offline evan_au

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Re: Is matter a distortion of space/time?
« Reply #3 on: 20/09/2015 12:24:12 »
Matter represents a distortion of the universe's gravitational field; strong in the vicinity of the matter particles, but weaker further away.

Accelerating masses produce distortions in the universe's gravitational field that propagate away from the accelerating masses, at the speed of light.
« Last Edit: 20/09/2015 12:26:51 by evan_au »
 

Offline Thebox

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Re: Is matter a distortion of space/time?
« Reply #4 on: 20/09/2015 12:29:31 »
Matter represents a distortion of the universe's gravitational field; strong in the vicinity of the matter particles, but weaker further away.

Accelerating masses produce distortions in the universe's gravitational field that propagate away from the accelerating masses, at the speed of light.
very good.

to add-distortion's in the universal gravitational field taking form relative to the motion of matter i.e curvature of space
« Last Edit: 20/09/2015 12:37:52 by Thebox »
 

Offline Atomic-S

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Re: Is matter a distortion of space/time?
« Reply #5 on: 21/09/2015 04:56:17 »
I think that this subject cannot be intelligently discussed without a reference to vacuum energy and string theory.
 

Offline PmbPhy

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Re: Is matter a distortion of space/time?
« Reply #6 on: 21/09/2015 05:34:41 »
John Lindop asked the Naked Scientists:
   
There  is  constant  reference  to  matter  distorting  space / time, the  words  are  correct  but  in  the  wrong  order  as  Schrodinger, Gifford  and  the ancient  Greek  philosophers  et  al    all  note  that  matter  IS a  distortion  of space / time  ??
What do you think?
I think that such an assertion is totally without foundation.
 

Offline lightarrow

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Re: Is matter a distortion of space/time?
« Reply #7 on: 21/09/2015 13:22:17 »
According to the Standard Model of particle physics, particles are excitations of their corresponding quantum fields, which permeate all space. But bear in mind that this is a a model - an astonishingly accurate model, in terms of what it predicts we'll observe - but it doesn't necessarily tell us what reality actually is; it tells us that it behaves as if it consists of these fields and their excitations.
Maybe this will amaze you, but it's not a task of physics to establish "what reality actually is", it's a task of religion (or phylosophy maybe).

In physics there is no reality, there are no truths.

There are only theories and models.

--
lightarrow
« Last Edit: 21/09/2015 13:24:59 by lightarrow »
 

Offline dlorde

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Re: Is matter a distortion of space/time?
« Reply #8 on: 21/09/2015 15:52:14 »
Maybe this will amaze you, but it's not a task of physics to establish "what reality actually is", it's a task of religion (or phylosophy maybe).

In physics there is no reality, there are no truths.

There are only theories and models.
Thanks, I'm well aware of that, and 'only theories and models' doesn't just apply to physics. I thought it was worth pointing out to those who might not be aware of it.
 

Offline Bill S

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Re: Is matter a distortion of space/time?
« Reply #9 on: 22/09/2015 22:52:59 »
Pete, I count at least three assertions in John’s post:

1 There  is  constant  reference  to  matter  distorting  space / time,

2 the  words  are  correct  but  in  the  wrong  order 

3 … all  note  that  matter  IS a  distortion  of space / time 

Please say which of these is/are “totally without foundation”, and why.


 

Offline jeffreyH

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Re: Is matter a distortion of space/time?
« Reply #10 on: 22/09/2015 23:41:07 »
It all depends upon whether or not gravitation is an inherent property of matter. Can photons be said to be an inherent property of matter or just particles that continually interact with it. It may also be so with gravitation. Then there is a ratio between gravitation and matter that gives a value for G. The Planck length is derived using G which is why there is a circularity in the values. All are only known to a level of uncertainty. If gravitation was inherent then I doubt this uncertainty would exist and some of the cosmological mysteries surrounding gravitation would not exist.
 

Offline Craig W. Thomson

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Re: Is matter a distortion of space/time?
« Reply #11 on: 23/09/2015 20:38:23 »
John Lindop asked the Naked Scientists:
   
There  is  constant  reference  to  matter  distorting  space / time, the  words  are  correct  but  in  the  wrong  order  as  Schrodinger, Gifford  and  the ancient  Greek  philosophers  et  al    all  note  that  matter  IS a  distortion  of space / time  ??
What do you think?

I think it's reasonable to say matter distorts space/time, though after spending some time in forums like these, I would tend to use the word "mass" rather than matter.

I've been thinking a lot about oscillations lately, and how they fill space. A point has zero dimensions. Oscillate that by moving it back and forth, and its motion describes a line, which has one dimension. Oscillate a one dimensional line, and that motion describes a plane, which has two dimensions. Oscillate a plane, and you break into the third dimension.

It's interesting to me that light is polarized and travels in a straight line, while photons themselves are massless. The polarization of light essentially means to me that you have two wave components in a photon, which is like taking a point, oscillating it to make a line (one wave component), and oscillating that line to make a plane (the second wave component). Together, these make a sinusoidal plane wave, an accepted definition of the photon's form. But, and here's the important part: If there is no third wave function component, a photon can't "break into the third dimension" or have mass. Only "three dimensional" particles can have mass.

When a particle gets that third wave function component and breaks into three dimensional space, then you get a particle with mass properties. Since space is, according to Relativity, something that can be bent and warped, I think it can also be "displaced." When a particle breaks into three dimensions, that "expels" the space that used to be occupied by "dimensionless" oscillating points and lines. That causes space to "push back" against that oscillation, accounting for the properties of gravity.

Some of my thoughts on this topic in another forum:

https://www.physforum.com/index.php?showtopic=121777

An illustration of the concept:

« Last Edit: 23/09/2015 20:47:04 by Craig W. Thomson »
 

Offline mathew_orman

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Re: Is matter a distortion of space/time?
« Reply #12 on: 27/09/2015 10:18:53 »
Distortion can be defined only in presence of structured entities of matter...
Time is a method of measuring of speed of motion of matter in space, an abstract mathematical quantity...
Space can only be measured as space between material objects or entities of matter...
Empty space has no dimension and the only property it has is ability to contain matter...
So, what is possible is the distortion of measurements and distortion of geometry...
Empty space and time has no meaning or use...


 
 

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Re: Is matter a distortion of space/time?
« Reply #12 on: 27/09/2015 10:18:53 »

 

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