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Author Topic: what shape is light?  (Read 6741 times)

Offline lightarrow

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Re: what shape is light?
« Reply #25 on: 30/09/2015 10:59:03 »
so pmbphy, when you say the strength of the reception of the EM wave is much greater than if the antenna is not parallel to the line in which the electric field osilates, do you mean "more photons will be absorbed, hence the stronger strength" or do you mean "photons whose electric fields align with the rod will impart more force?"
"photons whose electric fields"? Which science fiction movie have you seen? Photons DON'T have "an electric field" nor a magnetic field because they are not electromagnetic wave packets. Forget photons from your vocabulary and talk about electromagnetic waves/radiation *only*. Photons are a too difficult subject for everyone, excluded just a few people in the entire world.

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Offline MrDooley

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Re: what shape is light?
« Reply #26 on: 30/09/2015 11:44:08 »
I keep hearing of wave-particle duality. Does that mean that light has two shapes?
 

Offline PmbPhy

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Re: what shape is light?
« Reply #27 on: 30/09/2015 14:27:42 »
I keep hearing of wave-particle duality. Does that mean that light has two shapes?
The wave–particle duality is the fact that every elementary particle exhibits the properties of not only particles, but also waves.
 

Offline mathew_orman

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Re: what shape is light?
« Reply #28 on: 30/09/2015 14:53:45 »
I keep hearing of wave-particle duality. Does that mean that light has two shapes?
Duality is a metaphysical statement...
In reality photon is a single wavelet with spherical shape composed of electrical and magnetic fields gradients in perpendicular arrangement... Its shape is constant throughout its life...
 

Offline puppypower

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Re: what shape is light?
« Reply #29 on: 30/09/2015 14:54:44 »
What is meant by the whole transverse wave thing? What does that mean in reality? Does this suggest that light as a particle traces out a transverse wave, or that it's probability cloud does? Or does it have nothing to do with where it physically is, and simply mean that it's electric charge rises and falls along with its magnetic field rising and falling? And then what does that mean with fields rising and falling? Can somebody explain what this metaphor means experimentally?
Light is an electromagnetic wave. That means that there is an electric field oscillating perpendicular to the direction of motion and a magnetic field  oscillating perpendicular to both the direction of motion and the direction of the electric field. For example; if the direction of motion is the x-direction and the electric field is parallel to the y direction then the magnetic field is parallel to the z-direction.

Here is a picture of the above.



The image appears to show that a photon has both positive and negative charges, in motion, with each having priority part of the time. The magnetic field is created by charge in motion. This inference is supported by the observation that at extreme energy, photons can split into negatively charged electrons and positively charged positrons, allowing two charges to separate. At lower energy, it appears that the charges stay attached.

The sine wave of the electric field shows an alternating between the positive and negative charge. It is almost like the photon has an inside and outside, with a charge dipole alternating between core and surface, with the surface defining the field. The core aspects appears to be shielded.

As an alternate explanation, photons have spin. This which creates an interesting alternate possibility. If a photon moves at the speed of light and is also spinning, the surface would be exceeding the speed of light, while the core would move at C. In this case the core charge will be seen, while the surface charge in rotation will disappear; go back into time; repeat pattern of the wave.

It is like the movie ground hog day with Bill Murray, where each day he awakes and the same days starts again; wave repeats.
 
 

Offline PmbPhy

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Re: what shape is light?
« Reply #30 on: 30/09/2015 15:04:41 »
Quote from: mathew_orman
Duality is a metaphysical statement. In reality photon is a single wavelet with spherical shape composed of electrical and magnetic fields gradients in perpendicular arrangement... Its shape is constant throughout its life...
That's not true whatsoever. First of all that's not what duality is, i.e. it's not a metaphysical subject. And photons are not spherical in shape. They're point particles and they don't consist of electric or magnetic field gradients. Where on Earth did you get such an idea from? See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon
 

Offline mathew_orman

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Re: what shape is light?
« Reply #31 on: 30/09/2015 15:08:50 »
Quote from: mathew_orman
Duality is a metaphysical statement. In reality photon is a single wavelet with spherical shape composed of electrical and magnetic fields gradients in perpendicular arrangement... Its shape is constant throughout its life...
That's not true whatsoever. First of all that's not what duality is, i.e. it's not a metaphysical subject. And photons are not spherical in shape. They're point particles and they don't consist of electric or magnetic field gradients. Where on Earth did you get such an idea from? See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon
Photon by wiki cannot be detected by any know detection mechanism...
Field gradient by definition must have non zero size...
 

Offline PmbPhy

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Re: what shape is light?
« Reply #32 on: 30/09/2015 15:37:32 »
Quote from: puppypower
Here is a picture of the above.

The image appears to show that a photon has both positive and negative charges, in motion, with each having priority part of the time.
That's all wrong. That's a diagram of an EM wave, not a photon. People in this thread can't seem to get that part right.
 

Offline Bill S

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Re: what shape is light?
« Reply #33 on: 30/09/2015 20:37:13 »
Would it be accurate to say that light is neither a wave, nor a particle, but depending on the measurement we take (the question we ask) it can show qualities of either?
 

Offline Colin2B

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Re: what shape is light?
« Reply #34 on: 30/09/2015 22:44:27 »
Would it be accurate to say that light is neither a wave, nor a particle, but depending on the measurement we take (the question we ask) it can show qualities of either?
Some recent research has suggested a link to the uncertainty principle. The more something shows, or is measured to be, wavelike the less it is particle like; or the more certain we are it is a wave, the less certain we are it is a particle; and 'tother way round.
But I think you way of looking at it is valid.
« Last Edit: 30/09/2015 22:57:00 by Colin2B »
 

Offline evan_au

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Re: what shape is light?
« Reply #35 on: 01/10/2015 13:10:06 »
Quote from: Bill S
Would it be accurate to say that light is neither a wave, nor a particle, but depending on the measurement we take (the question we ask) it can show qualities of either?

A simplified view: As Physicist Ralph Baierlein put it, "light travels as a wave, but departs and arrives like a particle." This experiment has also been done with particles other than light, so it isn't just light being difficult, it's a case of some seriously weird quantum goings on.
 

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Re: what shape is light?
« Reply #35 on: 01/10/2015 13:10:06 »

 

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