The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: How can I create a coppered patina?  (Read 3978 times)

Offline element79

  • First timers
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
How can I create a coppered patina?
« on: 30/09/2015 10:04:16 »
Dear Scientists,

I'm an artist. I'm trying to make my own paints/solutions and effects on an array of different objects.
I've been lucky enough to have used an iron based paint which a friend made, which i then coppered with a liquid solution of copper and ammonia i assume, but he would never tell me the mixture ;)
So i thought i'd try and simulate his rust mix myself.
I've painted my object with the iron paint, and now i'd like to copper it.
I realise using chemicals can be very dangerous, so i wanted some professional advise first.
If I collect some copper fillings and as awful as it sounds mix them with my urine, will this explode? Or what about powdered peroxide instead of urine?
I'm hoping to create a red oxide/rust effect.

All advice very much appreciated.

Many thanks

Catherine



« Last Edit: 30/09/2015 11:12:33 by chris »


 

Offline MrDooley

  • First timers
  • *
  • Posts: 6
    • View Profile
Re: How can I create a coppered patina?
« Reply #1 on: 30/09/2015 11:58:06 »
Gosh, couldn't you just put it on the roof? How soon do you need it done?
 

Offline ProjectSailor

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 73
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: How can I create a coppered patina?
« Reply #2 on: 30/09/2015 13:41:41 »
Playing with chemicals can be quite dangerous, but stick to household stuff and in clear air in not great quantities.. and you will be fine.. just avoid any fumes! and always do a brief risk assessment.. (i.e. are my children/pets locked away, area clear of flammables, nothing i dont want stained nearby..)

Unfortunately copper and pee remains just that.. a bit of copper in a puddle of wee..

I doubt his 'coppering' additive was copper and ammonia since this is a very nice blue colour.. I would probably avoid copper as a rust colour since many of the complex ions are different colours i can't think of any other than pure copper that is brown red.. it could just have been really fine copper filings that would adhere within the paint.. maybe try getting a copper 'dust' and mix that in with the paint.

 

Offline Bored chemist

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8645
  • Thanked: 42 times
    • View Profile
Re: How can I create a coppered patina?
« Reply #3 on: 30/09/2015 13:48:25 »

The ugh factor isn't the only reason for not using urine. Urine isn't the same from day to day- it depends on diet.
If copper and urine caused explosions, there would be a lot less copper plumbing.


You can probably find some mixture of household chemicals that will give the colour you want, but it may take years of experimenting.
Have you tried searching the web to see if anyone has done this before (so you can copy their ideas- (at least a starting point)?
 

Offline puppypower

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 553
  • Thanked: 42 times
    • View Profile
Re: How can I create a coppered patina?
« Reply #4 on: 30/09/2015 14:27:20 »
This is not a commercial endorsement but there is company called Modern Masters. They sell metallic paints for decorative finishing. They also sell reactive metal paints for making copper and iron rust/patina. These works in seconds. You paint with the reactive metal and spritz the patina solution and the paint reacts. You then seal with a clear coat.

 

Offline MolonLabe

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 36
  • Thanked: 5 times
    • View Profile
Re: How can I create a coppered patina?
« Reply #5 on: 30/09/2015 17:14:10 »
Would their products work on plaster? I ask because I have a plaster cast of a Greek bronze head. The paint is peeling off and it would be very nice to make it look like the bronze original.

Edit: I've just googled them, and it looks like they might well have what I've been looking for for years, so thanks for that!
« Last Edit: 30/09/2015 17:17:27 by MolonLabe »
 

Offline CorneliusDalvert

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
Re: How can I create a coppered patina?
« Reply #6 on: 30/09/2015 17:55:05 »
Hi I did a silversmithing degree although I didn't use patina effects myself I knew smiths who did I suggest using  drybrush techniques to fake the effect of patinas if you're not using actual metal . I realise this is a terrible cheat but it would be much easier than trying to fix thin metallic paint surfaces and then apply compounds of copper salts to cause a patina as this would probably erode your thin paint layer . If your still set on trying actual patinas looking for books on silversmithing techniques and narrow your search from there , sorry I don't remember any specific books for you  to look up ( I did my degree 25 years ago )
 

Offline Colin2B

  • Global Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1906
  • Thanked: 122 times
    • View Profile
Re: How can I create a coppered patina?
« Reply #7 on: 30/09/2015 23:17:07 »
A solution of copper sulphate will give a thin coat of copper on to iron, never tried it on iron oxide.
Copper sulphate is easy to obtain as it is used in gardening as a fungicide.
Remember to wear gloves if handling and not to breath dust.
 

Offline chiralSPO

  • Global Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1867
  • Thanked: 143 times
    • View Profile
Re: How can I create a coppered patina?
« Reply #8 on: 30/09/2015 23:21:34 »
A solution of copper sulphate will give a thin coat of copper on to iron, never tried it on iron oxide.
Copper sulphate is easy to obtain as it is used in gardening as a fungicide.
Remember to wear gloves if handling and not to breath dust.

Copper sulfate will not coat iron oxide with copper. This reaction will only happen between copper ions and metallic substrates that are more easily oxidized than copper is (iron, zinc, aluminum, titanium, vanadium, etc.)
 

Offline Colin2B

  • Global Moderator
  • Neilep Level Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1906
  • Thanked: 122 times
    • View Profile
Re: How can I create a coppered patina?
« Reply #9 on: 30/09/2015 23:51:16 »
Copper sulfate will not coat iron oxide with copper.
Is there anything which could be painted onto the iron oxide that would make it take the copper?
If not, some of the resins loaded with copper powder are probably the way to go.
 

Offline ProjectSailor

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 73
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: How can I create a coppered patina?
« Reply #10 on: 01/10/2015 09:49:34 »
If you paint any compound of copper on it, you would be left with copper oxide.. not pure copper since you are moving ions around..

I think the term coppering doesnt actually mean applying copper and seems to be throwing people.. It could mean putting an additive in that makes the appearance of copper.. which.. I am at loss to pick out of the hundreds of chemicals which fit the bill as to what that is, but the more I think about it the more I doubt that adding actual copper would make a very convicing rust colour, or actually last any great deal of time without going green!
 

Offline puppypower

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 553
  • Thanked: 42 times
    • View Profile
Re: How can I create a coppered patina?
« Reply #11 on: 01/10/2015 12:34:08 »
If you are going to put a metallic paint patina on a plaster sculpture, I would recommend first washing the piece with a weak vinegar and water solution; 5-10% household vinegar in water. The weak acid will neutralize any alkalinity in the piece, that might cause future paint peeling.

After that air dries, use a primer sealer. The metallic paints are metal powders suspended in water based acrylic resins. These apply just like any wall paint. The spritz, I believe, is copper sulphate (it is blue) which reacts with the copper particles in the coating's surface layer. The clear coat seals the patina, so the art piece can be handled. This is really easy to d,o which is why I showed you a wall scale can be done by anyone who can paint a wall. 

The company also has iron oxide or rust as well as oxidized bronze. They supply specialty products to the faux finish market. I have used these which is why I am familiar.
 

Offline RD

  • Neilep Level Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8122
  • Thanked: 53 times
    • View Profile
Re: How can I create a coppered patina?
« Reply #12 on: 01/10/2015 13:25:07 »
It's possible to copper-plate stone / plastic / wood / etc , by first coating it in conductive paint ...
 

Offline ProjectSailor

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 73
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: How can I create a coppered patina?
« Reply #13 on: 01/10/2015 13:42:07 »
I am fairly certain copper plating is not going to produce the effect asked for, but if you can artisically apply this sort of thing it could work
 

Offline element79

  • First timers
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: How can I create a coppered patina?
« Reply #14 on: 06/10/2015 14:58:30 »
Thank you all so much for all the brilliant responses. I'm totally inspired.  :)
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: How can I create a coppered patina?
« Reply #14 on: 06/10/2015 14:58:30 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums