The Naked Scientists

The Naked Scientists Forum

Author Topic: A little thought about the Aether  (Read 1635 times)

Offline Diogo_Afonso_Leitao

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 20
    • View Profile
A little thought about the Aether
« on: 17/10/2015 01:20:48 »
Hello!
My name is Diogo, I am 13 years old and i had a thought about the aether.
In the past, scientists were searching for the medium which light propagates. They called it Aether. However, they had no clue it really existed and the conclusion was that light can propagate without any medium. So, i was wondering, what if the medium which light propagates is actually spacetime? I mean, spacetime is everywhere so scientists could have easily thought it could propagate in any environment.
Thanks for your attention and sorry for bad english, i am brazilian haha!


 

Offline GoC

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 341
  • Thanked: 51 times
    • View Profile
Re: A little thought about the Aether
« Reply #1 on: 17/10/2015 13:16:22 »
Since the MMX suggested a stationary Aether was very unlikely than spacetime would have to be energy itself where spacetime propagates the EM waves. It does seem that EM is controlled by c rather than uncontrolled space.
 

Offline liquidspacetime

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 119
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
Re: A little thought about the Aether
« Reply #2 on: 17/10/2015 13:49:21 »
Hello!
My name is Diogo, I am 13 years old and i had a thought about the aether.
In the past, scientists were searching for the medium which light propagates. They called it Aether. However, they had no clue it really existed and the conclusion was that light can propagate without any medium. So, i was wondering, what if the medium which light propagates is actually spacetime? I mean, spacetime is everywhere so scientists could have easily thought it could propagate in any environment.
Thanks for your attention and sorry for bad english, i am brazilian haha!

The Michelson-Morley experiment looked for an absolutely stationary space the Earth moves through. The aether is not an absolutely stationary space. The aether is displaced by the particles of matter which exist in it and move through it.

You are correct. Aether is spacetime.  What is incorrect in mainstream physics is the notion dark matter is a clump of stuff that travels with the matter.

The space unoccupied by particles of matter has mass.

I call this mass the aether.

Particles of matter move through and displace the aether.

'The Milky Way's dark matter halo appears to be lopsided'
http://arxiv.org/abs/0903.3802

"the emerging picture of the dark matter halo of the Milky Way is dominantly lopsided in nature."

The Milky Way's halo is not a clump of dark matter traveling along with the Milky Way. The Milky Way's halo is lopsided due to the matter in the Milky Way moving through and displacing the aether, analogous to a submarine moving through and displacing the water.

The Milky Way's halo is the state of displacement of the aether.

The Milky Way moves through and curves spacetime.

The Milky Way's halo is curved spacetime.

The state of displacement of the aether is curved spacetime.

The state of displacement of the aether is gravity.

However,  no one wants to understand this. I have been saying the above for over 30 years.

Good luck.
 

Offline GoC

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 341
  • Thanked: 51 times
    • View Profile
Re: A little thought about the Aether
« Reply #3 on: 20/10/2015 15:14:08 »
Possibly not displaced Ether but makes room for mass by decreasing the ether density causing expansion (dilation) with an aura back to massless space as in lensing of galaxies.
 

Offline liquidspacetime

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 119
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
Re: A little thought about the Aether
« Reply #4 on: 20/10/2015 16:22:05 »
Possibly not displaced Ether but makes room for mass by decreasing the ether density causing expansion (dilation) with an aura back to massless space as in lensing of galaxies.

'Ether and the Theory of Relativity by Albert Einstein'
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Extras/Einstein_ether.html

"Think of waves on the surface of water. Here we can describe two entirely different things. Either we may observe how the undulatory surface forming the boundary between water and air alters in the course of time; or else-with the help of small floats, for instance - we can observe how the position of the separate particles of water alters in the course of time. If the existence of such floats for tracking the motion of the particles of a fluid were a fundamental impossibility in physics - if, in fact nothing else whatever were observable than the shape of the space occupied by the water as it varies in time, we should have no ground for the assumption that water consists of movable particles. But all the same we could characterise it as a medium."

if, in fact nothing else whatever were observable than the shape of the space occupied by the aether as it varies in time, we should have no ground for the assumption that aether consists of movable particles. But all the same we could characterise it as a medium having mass which is displaced by the particles of matter which exist in it and move through it.

"the state of the [ether] is at every place determined by connections with the matter and the state of the ether in neighbouring places"

The state of the aether at every place determined by its connections with the matter and the state of the aether in neighboring places is the state of displacement of the aether.
 

Offline Phractality

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 523
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: A little thought about the Aether
« Reply #5 on: 20/10/2015 17:47:03 »
Here's a big thought about the aether:

Mass does not displace or drag aether because aether is the medium in which matter exists as waves.

Aether is an ultra-dense, ultra-stiff and ultra-hard solid. Acoustic shear waves in a solid pass thru one another without exchanging energy or momentum. Acoustic pressure waves in a solid also pass thru one another without exchanging energy or momentum. However, I believe there is an exchange of energy and momentum when a pressure wave passes thru a shear wave in a solid medium.

Photons wiggle aether from side to side as they pass thru it; these may be called shear waves or transverse waves or LIGHT. Light does not drag aether any more than a wave on a long string drags the string.

My model postulates a different kind of wave in the aether, which wiggles aether forward and back, rather than side to side. These can be called pressure waves, longitudinal waves or DARK ENERGY.

Particles with proper mass consist of pairs or groups of photons held in orbit around one another due to their exchange of momentum with dark energy. The magnitude and direction of the momentum exchange depends on the angle between the p-wave's path and the s-wave's plane of polarity. Therefor the s-wave perturbs the otherwise isometric character of the dark-energy flux around it.

When two photons pass near one another, they affect the flux of dark energy that each receives from the direction of the other. Therefor, they receive more or less momentum from that direction, and the result is a force of either attraction or repulsion between the two photons, depending on the angle between their respective planes of polarity.

This as yet undiscovered (to my knowledge) force is not an inverse square force. Its directionality breaks the usual radial symmetry of the standard model, replacing it with mirror symmetry. When a pair of photons with matched energy, polarity and phase meet at the right distance, this mirror-symmetry force may lock them in orbit around one another. The particle thus created probably acquires zero-point energy as the two photons fall into its weird-force well, and some left over energy may need to be shed as other photons and particles.

I don't know if this process of forming fundamental particles has happened lately, like more than seconds after the beginning of time. Nor do I know if we have a prayer of ever observing it. The scale at which I believe this occurs may be more than a dozen orders of magnitude smaller than anything CERN can detect.



 

Offline liquidspacetime

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 119
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
Re: A little thought about the Aether
« Reply #6 on: 20/10/2015 19:42:37 »
Wave-particle duality is a moving particle and its associated wave in the aether.

In a double slit experiment the particle is always detected traveling through a single slit because it always travels through a single slit. It is the associated wave in the aether that passes through both.
 

Offline Phractality

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 523
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: A little thought about the Aether
« Reply #7 on: 20/10/2015 20:10:14 »
This just came to me:

A rotating particle can only pass thru the slit when its constituent parts line up parallel to the slit?

Half-baked idea; just thought I better toss it out before I forget it.
 

Offline liquidspacetime

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 119
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
Re: A little thought about the Aether
« Reply #8 on: 20/10/2015 20:32:12 »
The key to remember is the particle occupies a very small region of its associated wave in the aether.
 

Offline GoC

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 341
  • Thanked: 51 times
    • View Profile
Re: A little thought about the Aether
« Reply #9 on: 21/10/2015 12:36:49 »
The key to remember is the particle occupies a very small region of its associated wave in the aether

What is the mechanism that causes the particle to be a constant speed? It seems we need that before we can determine a best guess as to the physical form.
 

Offline liquidspacetime

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 119
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
Re: A little thought about the Aether
« Reply #10 on: 21/10/2015 14:34:07 »
The key to remember is the particle occupies a very small region of its associated wave in the aether

What is the mechanism that causes the particle to be a constant speed? It seems we need that before we can determine a best guess as to the physical form.

The aether is, or behaves similar to, a supersolid, which is described in the following article as the 'fluidic' nature of space itself. The article describes a 'back reaction' associated with the 'fluidic' nature of space itself. This is the displaced aether 'displacing back'.

'An Extended Dynamical Equation of Motion, Phase Dependency and Inertial Backreaction'
http://arxiv.org/abs/1208.3458

"We hypothesize that space itself resists such surges according to a kind of induction law (related to inertia); additionally, we provide further evidence of the “fluidic” nature of space itself. This "back-reaction" is quantified by the tendency of angular momentum flux threading across a surface."

The following article describes the aether as that which produces resistance to acceleration and is responsible for the increase in mass of an object with velocity and describes the "space-time ideal fluid approach from general relativity."

'Fluidic Electrodynamics: On parallels between electromagnetic and fluidic inertia'
http://arxiv.org/abs/1202.4611

"It is shown that the force exerted on a particle by an ideal fluid produces two effects: i) resistance to acceleration and, ii) an increase of mass with velocity. ... The interaction between the particle and the entrained space flow gives rise to the observed properties of inertia and the relativistic increase of mass. ... Accordingly, in this framework the non resistance of a particle in uniform motion through an ideal fluid (D’Alembert’s paradox) corresponds to Newton’s first law. The law of inertia suggests that the physical vacuum can be modeled as an ideal fluid, agreeing with the space-time ideal fluid approach from general relativity."
 

Offline GoC

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 341
  • Thanked: 51 times
    • View Profile
Re: A little thought about the Aether
« Reply #11 on: 22/10/2015 14:14:58 »
let's not get confused about the increase in mass with velocity. Relativity suggests mathematically an increase in mass but it is not necessarily an increase in mass. It might just be an increase in attractive force. Weigh yourself on the Moon and then the Earth. Did you increase your mass? No, just your attraction in GR. There is a corresponding value in SR. With constant velocity its like being in the center of the moon, all mass is attracted to you at the slowest clock tick rate. The attraction to you is indistinguishable mathematically from an increase in mass 
 

Offline liquidspacetime

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 119
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
Re: A little thought about the Aether
« Reply #12 on: 22/10/2015 15:22:31 »
let's not get confused about the increase in mass with velocity. Relativity suggests mathematically an increase in mass but it is not necessarily an increase in mass. It might just be an increase in attractive force. Weigh yourself on the Moon and then the Earth. Did you increase your mass? No, just your attraction in GR. There is a corresponding value in SR. With constant velocity its like being in the center of the moon, all mass is attracted to you at the slowest clock tick rate. The attraction to you is indistinguishable mathematically from an increase in mass

The relativistic mass of an object is the mass of the object and the mass of the aether connected to and neighboring the object which is displaced by the object. The faster the object moves with respect to the state of the aether in which it exists the greater the displacement of the aether by the object the greater the relativistic mass of the aether.
 

Offline Space Flow

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 400
  • Thanked: 31 times
    • View Profile
Re: A little thought about the Aether
« Reply #13 on: 05/12/2015 00:51:30 »
For the answer to your questions you could consider this:
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=65064.0
 

Offline MattFaw

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 20
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
Re: A little thought about the Aether
« Reply #14 on: 02/01/2016 18:29:48 »
Hello!
My name is Diogo, I am 13 years old and i had a thought about the aether.
In the past, scientists were searching for the medium which light propagates. They called it Aether. However, they had no clue it really existed and the conclusion was that light can propagate without any medium. So, i was wondering, what if the medium which light propagates is actually spacetime? I mean, spacetime is everywhere so scientists could have easily thought it could propagate in any environment.
Thanks for your attention and sorry for bad english, i am brazilian haha!
The Michelson-Morley experiment looked for an absolutely stationary space the Earth moves through. The aether is not an absolutely stationary space. The aether is displaced by the particles of matter which exist in it and move through it.

You are correct. Aether is spacetime.  What is incorrect in mainstream physics is the notion dark matter is a clump of stuff that travels with the matter.

The space unoccupied by particles of matter has mass.

I call this mass the aether.

Particles of matter move through and displace the aether.

'The Milky Way's dark matter halo appears to be lopsided'

"the emerging picture of the dark matter halo of the Milky Way is dominantly lopsided in nature."

The Milky Way's halo is not a clump of dark matter traveling along with the Milky Way. The Milky Way's halo is lopsided due to the matter in the Milky Way moving through and displacing the aether, analogous to a submarine moving through and displacing the water.

The Milky Way's halo is the state of displacement of the aether.

The Milky Way moves through and curves spacetime.

The Milky Way's halo is curved spacetime.

The state of displacement of the aether is curved spacetime.

The state of displacement of the aether is gravity.

However,  no one wants to understand this. I have been saying the above for over 30 years.

Good luck.
Hi liquidspacetime, you are not alone in thinking this.  Space Flow and I have been having a parallel conversation about this on another thread:
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php?topic=65064.0

My explainer video is in that thread.

I'm sure there are variations in the details that we each see as necessary; I'm sure my theory can stand to be tweaked.  But it sounds like we're all in basic agreement in the metaphor of spacetime as fluid, and see the parallels with the concept of aether. 

best,

matt faw
 

Offline MattFaw

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 20
  • Thanked: 2 times
    • View Profile
Re: A little thought about the Aether
« Reply #15 on: 02/01/2016 18:31:35 »
Hello!
My name is Diogo, I am 13 years old and i had a thought about the aether.
In the past, scientists were searching for the medium which light propagates. They called it Aether. However, they had no clue it really existed and the conclusion was that light can propagate without any medium. So, i was wondering, what if the medium which light propagates is actually spacetime? I mean, spacetime is everywhere so scientists could have easily thought it could propagate in any environment.
Thanks for your attention and sorry for bad english, i am brazilian haha!
Hi Diogo, I think you make a very good point, especially for being such a young man.

best,

matt faw
 

Offline GoC

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 341
  • Thanked: 51 times
    • View Profile
Re: A little thought about the Aether
« Reply #16 on: 03/01/2016 16:28:56 »
hi Diogo

We need more scientists that can think for them selves in the future. I am sure you will be one of them. thank you!
 

The Naked Scientists Forum

Re: A little thought about the Aether
« Reply #16 on: 03/01/2016 16:28:56 »

 

SMF 2.0.10 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
 
Login
Login with username, password and session length