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Author Topic: The cat in the box  (Read 854 times)

Offline Thebox

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The cat in the box
« on: 30/10/2015 09:33:55 »
Light is dead and alive at the same time, like the cat in the box, but if you remove the observer, there is no question to be asked, observer effect makes the question, the observer put the cat in the box.


 

Offline Wajideu

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Re: The cat in the box
« Reply #1 on: 01/11/2015 06:35:45 »
This is actually a well misunderstood thing that gets quoted a lot.

The story of Schrodinger's cat is based on quantum entanglement and quantum superposition.

Quantum entanglement can be envisioned as a sort of butterfly effect that occurs when particles interact with each other. If you modify the state of one particle, then the state of any other particles entangled with it is altered instantaneously. In the story, the cat can be viewed as being quantum entangled with the flask of poison, which is entangled with the hammer, which is entangled with the radioactivity sensor, which is entangled with the radioactive substance.

Quantum superposition can be viewed as being based on the uncertainty principal; which dumbs down to the fact that there are certain things that you just can't know at the same time; e.g. the position and momentum of a particle. If you try to measure the position of a particle, the act of taking a measurement will alter it's state, causing it to behave differently. This extends to the atomic level. Atoms have a ground state and one or more excited states. When not being measured, the atoms will exhibit the traits of being in all states simultaneously. Once measured though, the measurement will make the atom behave differently, locking it to a single state.

So, in summary, the radioactive substance in the box which has yet to measured is existing in all states; and due to quantum entanglement, the cat can be thought of as existing in all states (both alive and dead) until a measurement is taken (opening the box). The story is metaphorical, and doesn't mean that just because no one's looking at the moon, it ceases to exist.
« Last Edit: 01/11/2015 10:17:34 by Wajideu »
 

Offline Thebox

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Re: The cat in the box
« Reply #2 on: 01/11/2015 10:54:07 »
This is actually a well misunderstood thing that gets quoted a lot.

The story of Schrodinger's cat is based on quantum entanglement and quantum superposition.

Quantum entanglement can be envisioned as a sort of butterfly effect that occurs when particles interact with each other. If you modify the state of one particle, then the state of any other particles entangled with it is altered instantaneously. In the story, the cat can be viewed as being quantum entangled with the flask of poison, which is entangled with the hammer, which is entangled with the radioactivity sensor, which is entangled with the radioactive substance.

Quantum superposition can be viewed as being based on the uncertainty principal; which dumbs down to the fact that there are certain things that you just can't know at the same time; e.g. the position and momentum of a particle. If you try to measure the position of a particle, the act of taking a measurement will alter it's state, causing it to behave differently. This extends to the atomic level. Atoms have a ground state and one or more excited states. When not being measured, the atoms will exhibit the traits of being in all states simultaneously. Once measured though, the measurement will make the atom behave differently, locking it to a single state.

So, in summary, the radioactive substance in the box which has yet to measured is existing in all states; and due to quantum entanglement, the cat can be thought of as existing in all states (both alive and dead) until a measurement is taken (opening the box). The story is metaphorical, and doesn't mean that just because no one's looking at the moon, it ceases to exist.


There is no problem measuring a particle of a concrete existence, it is only the convertual stuff you cant measure because measurement is observer effect and causes a reaction to the convertual energy.
 

Offline Wajideu

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Re: The cat in the box
« Reply #3 on: 01/11/2015 10:58:17 »
The word "observer" is a terrible word for precisely this reason. It's not a conscious mind, it's a measuring device.

Observer - Wiki [nofollow]

Quote from: wiki
In quantum mechanics, "observation" is synonymous with quantum measurement and "observer" with a measurement apparatus and "observable" with what can be measured. Thus the quantum mechanical observer does not have to necessarily present or solve any problems over and above the (admittedly difficult) issue of measurement in quantum mechanics."
« Last Edit: 01/11/2015 11:03:19 by Wajideu »
 

Offline Thebox

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Re: The cat in the box
« Reply #4 on: 01/11/2015 23:07:30 »
The word "observer" is a terrible word for precisely this reason. It's not a conscious mind, it's a measuring device.

Observer - Wiki

Quote from: wiki
In quantum mechanics, "observation" is synonymous with quantum measurement and "observer" with a measurement apparatus and "observable" with what can be measured. Thus the quantum mechanical observer does not have to necessarily present or solve any problems over and above the (admittedly difficult) issue of measurement in quantum mechanics."

Nope ,


''In science, the term observer effect refers to changes that the act of observation will make on a phenomenon being observed. This is often the result of instruments that, by necessity, alter the state of what they measure in some manner. A commonplace example is checking the pressure in an automobile tire; this is difficult to do without letting out some of the air, thus changing the pressure. This effect can be observed in many domains of physics.,


A cat is not naturally stuck inside a box, therefore observer effect asks a question that is not relative to anything. 
 

Offline jeffreyH

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Re: The cat in the box
« Reply #5 on: 02/11/2015 00:14:58 »
You have to know which side of the quantum fence Schrödinger was on. The history of the development of quantum mechanics is like a battle ground with lots of coercion going on.

http://www.iflscience.com/physics/schrödinger’s-cat-explained
« Last Edit: 02/11/2015 00:18:18 by jeffreyH »
 

Offline Thebox

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Re: The cat in the box
« Reply #6 on: 02/11/2015 08:57:42 »
You have to know which side of the quantum fence Schrödinger was on. The history of the development of quantum mechanics is like a battle ground with lots of coercion going on.

http://www.iflscience.com/physics/schrödinger’s-cat-explained


The Copenhagen sounds correct, shrodlinger's Cat is wrong, I am imagining a cat getting into a box, I am not imagining anyone closing the lid on the box, cats do not naturally come in a box, therefore I am imaging observer effect and someone's imagination closing the box.   I am going fishing soon for 24 hrs, I will comment more when I get back.



What does this mean exactly?

''That an object in a physical system can simultaneously exist in all possible configurations''


Should it not be that humans can make as many configurations as they can imagine? 


Can you explain the sentence in simplicity please.






 

Offline Wajideu

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Re: The cat in the box
« Reply #7 on: 02/11/2015 09:32:33 »
The word "observer" is a terrible word for precisely this reason. It's not a conscious mind, it's a measuring device.

Observer - Wiki [nofollow]

Quote from: wiki
In quantum mechanics, "observation" is synonymous with quantum measurement and "observer" with a measurement apparatus and "observable" with what can be measured. Thus the quantum mechanical observer does not have to necessarily present or solve any problems over and above the (admittedly difficult) issue of measurement in quantum mechanics."

Nope ,


''In science, the term observer effect refers to changes that the act of observation will make on a phenomenon being observed. This is often the result of instruments that, by necessity, alter the state of what they measure in some manner. A commonplace example is checking the pressure in an automobile tire; this is difficult to do without letting out some of the air, thus changing the pressure. This effect can be observed in many domains of physics.,


A cat is not naturally stuck inside a box, therefore observer effect asks a question that is not relative to anything.

I'm questioning your reading comprehension skills at this point, since you literally just called me wrong and then repeated exactly what I said back to me.

Quote from: Wajideu
Quantum superposition can be viewed as being based on the uncertainty principal; which dumbs down to the fact that there are certain things that you just can't know at the same time; e.g. the position and momentum of a particle. If you try to measure the position of a particle, the act of taking a measurement will alter it's state, causing it to behave differently. This extends to the atomic level. Atoms have a ground state and one or more excited states. When not being measured, the atoms will exhibit the traits of being in all states simultaneously. Once measured though, the measurement will make the atom behave differently, locking it to a single state.
« Last Edit: 02/11/2015 09:36:42 by Wajideu »
 

Offline Thebox

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Re: The cat in the box
« Reply #8 on: 03/11/2015 22:21:29 »
The word "observer" is a terrible word for precisely this reason. It's not a conscious mind, it's a measuring device.
I must be interpreting it differently.

Quantum superposition can be viewed as being based on the uncertainty principal; which dumbs down to the fact that there are certain things that you just can't know at the same time; e.g. the position and momentum of a particle. If you try to measure the position of a particle, the act of taking a measurement will cause a reaction causing it to behave differently. This extends to the atomic level. Atoms have a ground state and one or more excited states. When not being measured, the atoms will exhibit the traits of being in all states simultaneously. Once measured though, the measurement will make the atom behave differently, locking it to a single state of direction by gravitation eb and flow.


Because as an electron approaches an electron, the electron tries to move away.








« Last Edit: 03/11/2015 22:23:22 by Thebox »
 

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Re: The cat in the box
« Reply #8 on: 03/11/2015 22:21:29 »

 

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